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    (Original post by 16characterlimit)
    Yes, there is a reason we couldn't do better, we have less influence out of the EU, we would be exposed to EU tariffs, which will 100% happen since that's the entire bloody point of it. USA would rather deal with EU as a whole than case by case basis, and we have weaker negotiating power. The EU managed to force George W Bush to back down on a steel tariff by retaliating with tariffs on marginal states for his election, you think they would give a **** if it was just us shouting at them across the sea? Not to mention it takes time to make these deals, why sever a perfectly good one. And all that sweet investment we get from Japanese car companies, Banks and tech companies? Yeah we can kiss that good bye.

    FURTHERMORE, do you realise how damaging Brexit is for higher education? There's a reason unis are overwhelmingly pro Europe. Bye bye Erasmus, bye bye EU funding (only thing left thanks to Tories), bye bye science and technology collaboration.

    Oh yeah and our farm subsidies would go too.
    For one, you don't have to be in the EU to enjoy ESA and European sciences funding. Tens of countries outside the EU receive these bonuses.
    Secondly, we have a net defecit to the EU. It doesn't matter if the subsidies go because they're subsidies payed for with our money!
    Thirdly, we have a Special Relationship with the USA, and one of the leading presidential candidates is strongly in favour of Brexit.
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    (Original post by EuanF)
    For one, you don't have to be in the EU to enjoy ESA and European sciences funding. Tens of countries outside the EU receive these bonuses.
    Secondly, we have a net defecit to the EU. It doesn't matter if the subsidies go because they're subsidies payed for with our money!
    Thirdly, we have a Special Relationship with the USA, and one of the leading presidential candidates is strongly in favour of Brexit.
    The Trump supporter has spoken, I bow to your knowledge of "the deal" and your "best people".
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    (Original post by 16characterlimit)
    The Trump supporter has spoken, I bow to your knowledge of "the deal" and your "best people".
    What a cop out. Trump is literally one of only two viable presidential candidates. Of course, instead of actually arguing the point, you'd rather virtue signal and try and brand me as Nick Griffin in the flesh and strawman me. You may as well have conceded the argument right there and then.
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    (Original post by Alien Warrior)
    1. Freedom to make stronger trade deals with other nations.

    2. Freedom to spend UK resources presently through EU membership in the UK to the advantage of our citizens.

    3. Freedom to control our national borders.

    4. Freedom to restore Britain’s special legal system.

    5. Freedom to deregulate the EU’s costly mass of laws.

    6. Freedom to make major savings for British consumers.

    7. Freedom to improve the British economy and generate more jobs.

    8. Freedom to regenerate Britain’s fisheries.

    9. Freedom to save the NHS from EU threats to undermine it by harmonising healthcare across the EU, and to reduce welfare payments to non-UK EU citizens.

    10. Freedom to restore British customs and traditions.

    p.s far left liberal young people: you are not racist if you vote leave.
    You do realize that freedom to do all of these things does not imply that they will happen?

    E.g. the first one it will for sure not happen. The EU as a negotiator has much more bargaining power than the UK alone.
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    (Original post by inhuman)
    You do realize that freedom to do all of these things does not imply that they will happen?

    E.g. the first one it will for sure not happen. The EU as a negotiator has much more bargaining power than the UK alone.
    Which is why it has a puny £5 trilion in trade deals, right? That the lone voice of Switzerland outside the EU which has trade deals worth £29 trillion? Nah, the EU has more bargaining power.
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    (Original post by EuanF)
    What a cop out. Trump is literally one of only two viable presidential candidates. Of course, instead of actually arguing the point, you'd rather virtue signal and try and brand me as Nick Griffin in the flesh and strawman me. You may as well have conceded the argument right there and then.
    Fine ill argue your point, even though you haven't countered mine. Though I hope you realise that Trump is a complete ****ing bonehead, nor did I call you racist, just that this man's endorsement is meaningless.

    Yes, we pay money, but we get more out of it, because believe it or not other countries pay too. The special relationship is rubbish, its in name only, and is for international security when it is (very occasionally) used for mutual benefit rather than turning us into the USA's blunt foreign policy tool, let alone trade. And being in the EU gives us more science funding, we are the second largest beneficiary

    https://royalsociety.org/topics-poli...her-countries/
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    (Original post by EuanF)
    Which is why it has a puny £5 trilion in trade deals, right? That the lone voice of Switzerland outside the EU which has trade deals worth £29 trillion? Nah, the EU has more bargaining power.
    http://news.cbi.org.uk/business-issu...ade-deals-pdf/

    Game over.
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    It was always game over, the entire campaign is entirely based on ignorance, lies and emotion, all spearheaded by Nigel Farage in a cynical attempt for 15 seconds of fame.
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    (Original post by 16characterlimit)
    Fine ill argue your point, even though you haven't countered mine. Though I hope you realise that Trump is a complete ****ing bonehead.

    Yes, we pay money, but we get more out of it, because believe it or not other countries pay too. The special relationship is rubbish, its in name only, and is for international security when it is (very occasionally) used for mutual benefit rather than turning us into the USA's blunt foreign policy tool, let alone trade. And being in the EU gives us more science funding, we are the second largest beneficiary

    https://royalsociety.org/topics-poli...her-countries/
    Yes, other countries pay in, but we are a net "contributor". You will not find a source denying this unless it is literally telling lies. We send more money off to the EU than we at any point receive from it in funding.

    "The body which awards funding for scientific research within the EU is called the European Research Council. Under the Horizon 2020 programme, the EU allocates a certain amount of its annual budget (about €80 billion) to organisations that promote innovation. The UK receives a truly minuscule proportion of this money: about €240 million euro p.a. (or £190 million at current exchange rates). Compare this to the roughly £6 billion that the Department of Business, Innovation and Skills has allocated to domestic science this year. A 2013 report from the Royal Society showed that only about 3% of British research and development funding comes from EU programmes. Any loss of funding suffered by UK science after a Brexit would be very small.Ultimately however, there need not be any loss of funding at all. The UK is a net contributor to the EU budget; we pay around £13 billion a year and receive £4.5 billion back, which means we lose about £8.5 billion. Exactly how much money we would save in the event of leaving the EU depends on the outcome of negotiations (whether we choose to leave the EEA, to opt in to certain EU programmes such Europol etc.), but it is likely to be a significant proportion of the £8.5 billion, and would certainly be enough to allow us to plug a tiny £190 million hole in scientific R&D funding."
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    Ah yes, the ever reliable EU funded CBI.
    Are you disbuting the facts stated about the trade deal worths?
    Also, I love how that source tries to imply that the Commonwealth wouldn't want to trade with us
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    (Original post by EuanF)
    Yes, other countries pay in, but we are a net "contributor". You will not find a source denying this unless it is literally telling lies. We send more money off to the EU than we at any point receive from it in funding.

    "The body which awards funding for scientific research within the EU is called the European Research Council. Under the Horizon 2020 programme, the EU allocates a certain amount of its annual budget (about €80 billion) to organisations that promote innovation. The UK receives a truly minuscule proportion of this money: about €240 million euro p.a. (or £190 million at current exchange rates). Compare this to the roughly £6 billion that the Department of Business, Innovation and Skills has allocated to domestic science this year. A 2013 report from the Royal Society showed that only about 3% of British research and development funding comes from EU programmes. Any loss of funding suffered by UK science after a Brexit would be very small.Ultimately however, there need not be any loss of funding at all. The UK is a net contributor to the EU budget; we pay around £13 billion a year and receive £4.5 billion back, which means we lose about £8.5 billion. Exactly how much money we would save in the event of leaving the EU depends on the outcome of negotiations (whether we choose to leave the EEA, to opt in to certain EU programmes such Europol etc.), but it is likely to be a significant proportion of the £8.5 billion, and would certainly be enough to allow us to plug a tiny £190 million hole in scientific R&D funding."
    You cant compare the Science funding with the entire EU budget contribution you make, that's like going "wow we spend so little on pensions as a proportion of our entire GDP!"

    The headline figure for the in campaign is literally £10 for every £1 we put in.
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    1: Rubbish. See Obama. People that think people will give us a better deal on our own are mental. It's about as realistic as Cornwall getting a better trade deal with China outside the UK.

    2: but we won't because we'll be in a recession. As the treasury select committee made Christmas clear when interviewing Vote Leave- they will be unable to maintain current levels of spending.

    3: freedom of movement is a two way thing and is almost always economically beneficial. A recent LSE study has shown that EU migration has had no discernible impact on wages. In any case vote leave have quote sensibly said they won't be deporting anyone (because they're virtually all on work and socially useful eg warehousing and agriculture) and most of the people from Europe who would move have moved. Also we're not part of schengen

    4: Meh. Legal systems not that great. Also we helped set up the ECHR and win a lot of the cases.5: apart from the ones we want which is the majority. To be honest I quite like regulation but if you want a U.S. Style economic system then yeah you should leave.

    6: Disputed. That's not what HMRC are saying.

    7: we already have the best employment and economy in Europe despite it apparently weighing us down...

    8: How? (Fish don't recognise borders)

    9: what? On welfare that was something that David Cameron did negotiate out of

    10: Like what? The death penalty?

    iEthan
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    (Original post by EuanF)
    Ah yes, the ever reliable EU funded CBI.
    Are you disbuting the facts stated about the trade deal worths?
    Also, I love how that source tries to imply that the Commonwealth wouldn't want to trade with us
    A yes the ever relia- oh wait the out campaign doesn't even have sources to criticize. Here's another scalding statement on your fantasy though:

    https://www.blackrock.com/institutio...-little-reward
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    (Original post by 16characterlimit)
    You cant compare the Science funding with the entire EU budget contribution you make, that's like going "wow we spend so little on pensions as a proportion of our entire GDP!"

    The headline figure for the in campaign is literally £10 for every £1 we put in.
    That figure's objectively false, though. Someone did the working out in another thread, and it comes to this (as the most accurate, unbiased figure.)

    (Original post by CherishFreedom)
    The correct statistics for 2015 are as below:
    Annual contribution: £18 billion
    Rebate: -£5 billion
    Total before EU spending on the UK: £13 billion
    EU spending on the UK: -£4.5 billion
    Net contribution: £8.5 billionOne thing to note is that we do not get to decide the area and projects in which the EU spends in the UK. This might be the reason why some prefer to use the £13 billion figure because we have no control on who's going to benefit. Despite this I think the fairest figure to use is £8.5 billion.
    This calculates to an average net daily payment of £23.3 million.
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    (Original post by Keyhofi)
    Voting in because I might want to work in the EU in the future. I'd rather not limit my job opportunities over something as petty as EU membership. Everyone knows the UK generates way more graduates than it has jobs for. We need access to larger job markets.
    So you're just selfish and you only consider your personal job preferences (which may never materialise) as opposed to looking at the wider picture?

    I'm unfortunately too young to vote but to me it is crystal clear that Britain ought to leave the EU; I am sick of all the scaremongering from the Remain campaign!!
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    1: Rubbish. See Obama. People that think people will give us a better deal on our own are mental. It's about as realistic as Cornwall getting a better trade deal with China outside the UK.

    2: but we won't because we'll be in a recession. As the treasury select committee made Christmas clear when interviewing Vote Leave- they will be unable to maintain current levels of spending.

    3: freedom of movement is a two way thing and is almost always economically beneficial. A recent LSE study has shown that EU migration has had no discernible impact on wages. In any case vote leave have quote sensibly said they won't be deporting anyone (because they're virtually all on work and socially useful eg warehousing and agriculture) and most of the people from Europe who would move have moved. Also we're not part of schengen

    4: Meh. Legal systems not that great. Also we helped set up the ECHR and win a lot of the cases.5: apart from the ones we want which is the majority. To be honest I quite like regulation but if you want a U.S. Style economic system then yeah you should leave.

    6: Disputed. That's not what HMRC are saying.

    7: we already have the best employment and economy in Europe despite it apparently weighing us down...

    8: How? (Fish don't recognise borders)

    9: what? On welfare that was something that David Cameron did negotiate out of

    10: Like what? The death penalty?

    iEthan
    You realise Obama is out of office this year, right? He isn't relevant.
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    (Original post by EuanF)
    You realise Obama is out of office this year, right? He isn't relevant.
    Kind of like Trump.
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    (Original post by EuanF)
    Ah yes, the ever reliable EU funded CBI.
    Are you disbuting the facts stated about the trade deal worths?
    Also, I love how that source tries to imply that the Commonwealth wouldn't want to trade with us
    CBI is non-profit and British.
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    (Original post by 16characterlimit)
    A yes the ever relia- oh wait the out campaign doesn't even have sources to criticize. Here's another scalding statement on your fantasy though:

    https://www.blackrock.com/institutio...-little-reward
    This still isn't addressing my point. Yes or no, does the EU only have a little over £5 tn in trade agreements?
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    (Original post by Keyhofi)
    CBI is non-profit and British.
    And funded hugely by the EU.

    "Between 2009 and 2015, the CBI received £955,484 from the European Commission. This equates to 12% of the CBI’s retained income in the same period."
 
 
 
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