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    (Original post by SirMilkSheikh)
    The problem is that in today's age people are incredibly entitled. Going to university, no matter how rubbish the institution, no matter how ridiculous the degree, has entwined itself within the culture of England. Growing up means going to university and having a degree and passing a few exams where you have to memorise a bunch of things or write a few useless essays - young people measure their self worth on these worthless privileges.

    If you tell an 18 year old that they will have to pay the cost of their degrees, then they'll throw a tantrum and vote for the party who promises cheaper education. Self-entitlement runs deep in this country.

    The solution is to completely stop funding universities and degrees, apart from the essential NHS funded courses. Encourage people to learn a trade from the age of 15 which will provide them with skills, useful work and an income for the rest of their lives (or at least for the time being). 16 year olds need to learn and prepare to be adults again instead of university students remain children well into their mid 20s.
    Totally agree
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    (Original post by GlassyMarbles)
    I get where you're coming from, I'd just much rather it be £1000 or £3000 like it used to be.
    mine was 11k
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    do people even understand that regardless of the amount you lend all that matters is what you earn after uni?

    and considering the fact primary and secondary school was completely free we can stop moaning like we always do

    young people in this country just think they're entitled to what they want when they want it

    "ooooooo the government are willing to give me £65,000 with no crazy interest rates for my 4 years at uni while I study some useless **** oh my god how will I cope when I'll probably only pay back £50,000 after 30 years meaning I got £15,000 for free; oogoogoog my lord I cannot cope, free money how will I survive"
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    the case above is based on someone (me) earning 26k minimum after university, if you expect to earn less than 24k for the rest of your career after uni then please do not waste your time and get a job and just progress up the ladder
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    (Original post by samesea)
    What if they can't pay or it? How is it moral that in one of the wealthiest countries in the world we have people who want to better themselves trapped in relative poverty because they can't afford a degree?
    The self-entitlement runs deep here. Not only that but it is common for self-entitled people to suffer from delusions of grandeur. Many people cannot afford to pay for many things. Now are you willing to give 25% of your income to daddy government so that I can afford to go to the shooting range, take a few courses and purchase a shotgun license and a sawd-off shotgun? I thought not.

    A piece of paper granted to you by an institution that doesn't care about you, labelled 'degree' does not necessarily mean you are bettering yourself. A degree can be a burden - 3 or 4 years of (often pointless) study, huge debt and, a lot of the time nothing to show for it.

    You want to escape poverty? A good start would be not to get yourself into £50,000 worth of debt. But alas, most 18 year old children won't bother heeding such a warning.
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    (Original post by SirMilkSheikh)
    A piece of paper granted to you by an institution that doesn't care about you, labelled 'degree' does not necessarily mean you are bettering yourself. A degree can be a burden - 3 or 4 years of (often pointless) study, huge debt and, a lot of the time nothing to show for it.

    You want to escape poverty? A good start would be not to get yourself into £50,000 worth of debt. But alas, most 18 year old children won't bother heeding such a warning.
    Exactly. Spot on.
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    Oh look another impotent irritant posting tsr
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    (Original post by Blue_Mason)
    Oh look another impotent irritant posting tsr
    Nothing constructive to post?
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    (Original post by SirMilkSheikh)
    The self-entitlement runs deep here. Not only that but it is common for self-entitled people to suffer from delusions of grandeur. Many people cannot afford to pay for many things. Now are you willing to give 25% of your income to daddy government so that I can afford to go to the shooting range, take a few courses and purchase a shotgun license and a sawd-off shotgun? I thought not.

    A piece of paper granted to you by an institution that doesn't care about you, labelled 'degree' does not necessarily mean you are bettering yourself. A degree can be a burden - 3 or 4 years of (often pointless) study, huge debt and, a lot of the time nothing to show for it.

    You want to escape poverty? A good start would be not to get yourself into £50,000 worth of debt. But alas, most 18 year old children won't bother heeding such a warning.
    Maybe you should have gone or go again to university. Might stop you from writing such drivel.
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    (Original post by inhuman)
    Maybe you should have gone or go again to university. Might stop you from writing such drivel.
    Nah I went for 3 months last year and got dumber by the day, so I left and regained my lost sanity. Maybe you should write a coherent reply next time. Ad-hominem is no argument.
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    (Original post by hezzlington)
    On what basis should the contribution be lowered. It does not affect accessibility to higher education
    Having people successfully complete degree generally has a positive impact on the whole of society and is not just for the benefit of the individual completing the degree. There will always be exceptions where this is not the case, but for the majority of people it benefits society as whole and is especially beneficial in many career focuses degrees (medicine, nursing, social work, engineering, teaching) and very academic/science degrees (physics, chemistry, mathematics, biology etc).

    It therefore makes sense that a contribution to fund degrees comes from general taxation as the benefit is not just to the individual.
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    (Original post by SirMilkSheikh)
    Nah I went for 3 months last year and got dumber by the day, so I left and regained my lost sanity. Maybe you should write a coherent reply next time. Ad-hominem is no argument.
    Where did I use ad hominem?
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    (Original post by RK)
    Having people successfully complete degree generally has a positive impact on the whole of society and is not just for the benefit of the individual completing the degree. There will always be exceptions where this is not the case, but for the majority of people it benefits society as whole and is especially beneficial in many career focuses degrees (medicine, nursing, social work, engineering, teaching) and very academic/science degrees (physics, chemistry, mathematics, biology etc).

    It therefore makes sense that a contribution to fund degrees comes from general taxation as the benefit is not just to the individual.
    Are there any statistics that back up the 'generally positive impact on society' that having a degree results in?

    If degrees are heavily subsidised, we'll see a massive increase in the amount of people that decide to go to unversity and that doesn't fit with the amount of jobs there are available. Heavy saturation of the entry level job market is not a benefit to society.
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    (Original post by The gains kinggg)
    Tuition fees are the fairest way.

    Why should i have to subsidise someone else's ****ty liberal arts degree from some unknown polytechnic?

    And why do students feel as thought they are soo entitled?

    Blah blah blah give me some free **** that other people have to pay for.
    Free education has been a universal right in this country right up until a decade ago.
    It caused no problems and the students paid more in tax than none graduates.

    End of story

    It should have stayed that way


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    (Original post by hezzlington)
    Are there any statistics that back up the 'generally positive impact on society' that having a degree results in?

    If degrees are heavily subsidised, we'll see a massive increase in the amount of people that decide to go to unversity and that doesn't fit with the amount of jobs there are available. Heavy saturation of the entry level job market is not a benefit to society.
    That's an argument for limiting places available on different courses rather than an argument that is pro fees


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    (Original post by M14B)
    Unfortunately the person which gets the *****y degree will never pay back if he does not earn enough, so it like before i.e the taxpayer does
    Not their fault they don't get paid enough
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    (Original post by Kieran1996)
    if you expect to earn less than 24k for the rest of your career after uni then please do not waste your time and get a job and just progress up the ladder
    I wish I had done this, I took a gap year and was dragged to Uni. Paid out of my pocket and now I'm skint. I have no debt as of yet just completely skint and I only do this honestly like god honest truth I can't even say it right now tbh because it reminds me I'm wasting my time. I see ppl content who never stepped in uni meanwhile we're wasting our time. Maybe I'm being cynical I dunno but I feel it's pointless unless you know exactly what you wanna do and have the support to get there. I'm neither of those. When it's over I'll have a fancy piece of paper and what? I either need to finish what I've started and graduate and try to make the most of my time at uni and build connections to progress to ward my...career...or just..**** it, start laying bricks or something, prison guard I don't even care anymore.
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    But then how different is this from about a century ago when only the richest people could go to university- raising tuition fees or even keeping them where they are is more back tracking than progress as we will end up in a society in which only the richest and elitest people can go to university while others aren't even given the opportunity. How are we meant to grow and prosper as a country if we are not giving everybody the same chance to succeed?
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    This thread is cancer.

    So many of these threads are cancer.
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    (Original post by paul514)
    Free education has been a universal right in this country right up until a decade ago.
    It caused no problems and the students paid more in tax than none graduates.

    End of story

    It should have stayed that way


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    Where would the money come from? And what's so wrong with asking someone to pay for their own education? And it's not just their education they're paying for - they're paying for the upkeep of facilities at the university.
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    9000 is a ridiculous amount to be paying yearly + all the expenses like rent, food and laundry etc. This amount adds up to about 15k a year. Unless you're bagging 15k without a problem. Then go ahead and argue this point of yours but trust me not everyone can afford it.
 
 
 
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