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Are Spurs really that good? Watch

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    (Original post by Fizzel)
    Think Spurs are certainly a good side, but I do think their quality is being overplayed a bit. The team doesn't have any real standout players, not sure how many of their team a true top European side would be interested in. The point total this year despite the league challenge was only 70 points, and it was really a late surge and then faded out. Arsenal by comparison had a very unremarkable season and still bettered them.

    Next season will be huge for them in terms of the pressure on Poch, their need to have players like Alli firing again, plus with their heavy work rate will be interesting to see how they coming off the back of a Euro.

    Did see Poch as a potential fraud of a manager start of the season, but to his credit his team started produce even if the end of the season does reflect badly on him.
    Alderweireld fits into the Barca and Madrid back lines, maybe not at Bayern or Atletico. Kane is on the next tier down from Auba/Lewa/Ibra, even if he's a bit 90s in playing style and looks which would hamper a move to, say, Atletico where he'd fit in nicely (forgetting his price). People would also argue for Vertonghen and Lloris' quality. There's definitely great players in the squad, and the fact that they aren't reliant on Bale as in AVB's year gives them better grounding for future success.


    In general, Spurs defend well. They prevent shots on target well and they prevent opposition getting into dangerous areas very well. They do have good centrebacks but I would give credit here to Pochettino rather than the playing staff, and I think success in this area is very sustainable. It's a hallmark of Poch teams.

    What I'm not sure is sustainable, is the goals output. Kane's now done 21, and 25 PL goals in a row. It would be phenomenal if he topped 20 again next year, getting into Henry territory. But if, as one would expect, he regresses to 15 or so goals, where are Spurs' goals going to come from? They got 17 from set pieces last year; Eriksen is obviously a great taker but season set piece goals tallies are basically just like flipping a 20 sided coin. Eriksen's quality gives them a bit of a boost compared to everyone else but I don't back them to get that many next year. Alli is obviously ridiculously talented but it's a stretch to see him putting up 10 goals and 9 assists again. I don't see where the goals are coming from. As a team, they don't create very good chances by the xpG figures.

    For a title challenge you usually need three players in double figures for goals, two of them being big hitters. For a top four challenge you can scrape by with two, and just one big hitter. In a highly realistic scenario, Spurs lose the coin-flip of set pieces, Kane's goal tally dips slightly, one or two of their key players get injured, Alli doesn't replicate a pretty heroic (and unlikely, by the stats) season, and Spurs are left relying on their summer signings + Son, Wimmer and co. Liverpool 2014 all over again.
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    They benefitted from injuries as mentioned previously and opposition being more ****ter.

    Getting knocked out early in the Europa was also beneficial for them.

    Next season with CL will be interesting.
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    Spurs got lucky this season, Pochettino is over-rated and Harry Kane is a two season wonder.

    Seriously though. Next season.

    1. Chelsea
    2. Tottenham
    3. Manchester City
    4. Liverpool

    5. Manchester United
    6. Arsenal
    7. Southampton
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    (Original post by jackcoys)
    Spurs got lucky this season, Pochettino is over-rated and Harry Kane is a two season wonder.

    Seriously though. Next season.

    1. Chelsea
    2. Tottenham
    3. Manchester City
    4. Liverpool

    5. Manchester United
    6. Arsenal
    7. Southampton
    How many points are you predicting Spurs to get? I'd be surprised if they got more than 75.

    Mourinho has never got less than 82 points in a PL season, so United won't be 5th.
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    (Original post by jackcoys)
    Spurs got lucky this season, Pochettino is over-rated and Harry Kane is a two season wonder.

    Seriously though. Next season.

    1. Chelsea
    2. Tottenham
    3. Manchester City
    4. Liverpool

    5. Manchester United
    6. Arsenal
    7. Southampton
    where's leicester city?
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    (Original post by chemistrybro)
    where's leicester city?
    I mean, I literally predicted that in about 30 seconds. But I think those teams will be the general consensus of the top 6. I don't think Leicester will drop off, but I just can't see them being back up there. I hope they are though. I'm just looking forward to next season, hopefully English clubs will rise again.
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    (Original post by Diego Costa)
    How many points are you predicting Spurs to get? I'd be surprised if they got more than 75.

    Mourinho has never got less than 82 points in a PL season, so United won't be 5th.
    He would have had he still managed Chelsea this season.

    Spurs ain't getting more than 75 too I agree.
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    (Original post by bammy jastard 27)
    He would have had he still managed Chelsea this season.

    Spurs ain't getting more than 75 too I agree.
    I guess that's correct but there were obvious extenuating circumstances. The larger point is that he'll be targeting 80+ points at minimum (which the evidence would suggest he'd achieve) and it'd be a colossal achievement if Spurs were to reach that.

    Of the presumably Spurs fans' table, ironically the only team I think that Spurs have a chance of getting more points than is the team he had above them - Chelsea. They the most places of all the sides in the table this season (probably) and all the big sides have strengthened already. It's a little naive if they're planning on leaving their transfer business until after the Euros.
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    (Original post by Diego Costa)
    I guess that's correct but there were obvious extenuating circumstances. The larger point is that he'll be targeting 80+ points at minimum (which the evidence would suggest he'd achieve) and it'd be a colossal achievement if Spurs were to reach that.

    Of the presumably Spurs fans' table, ironically the only team I think that Spurs have a chance of getting more points than is the team he had above them - Chelsea. They the most places of all the sides in the table this season (probably) and all the big sides have strengthened already. It's a little naive if they're planning on leaving their transfer business until after the Euros.
    Yeah but they won the league the season before and only 2 or three additions are needed at most (CM, CB and backup striker).

    We're obviously in talks for Nainggolan and I think we will probably reach an agreement.
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    (Original post by bammy jastard 27)
    Yeah but they won the league the season before and only 2 or three additions are needed at most (CM, CB and backup striker).

    We're obviously in talks for Nainggolan and I think we will probably reach an agreement.
    A full back and an attacking midfielder would be needed too.
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    It'll be one hell of a season if Leicester can hang onto their players and Man Utd, Chelsea and Liverpool get their act together.

    Potentially 7 teams competing for the title.
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    (Original post by Diego Costa)
    A full back and an attacking midfielder would be needed too.
    Not really.

    Baba Rahman is a more than accomplished fullback who doesn't get enough gametime to prove himself. There is actually zero need for an attacking midfielder. The entire aim of buying a box to box CM is to avoid us having to play a formation that requires an attacking midfielder(which we don't require). We also have Cuadrado to come back meaning Willian can play there with Oscar if needed. Nainggolan plays with Matic and Fabregas in a 3 man midfield. It also means that the 3 attackers are higher up the pitch rather than deep like in the 4-2-3-1 meaning that they have more creative freedom(Hazard and Willian in particular need this to thrive).

    In all honesty this all points to Conte playing a 4-3-3, or possibly a 4-4-2 if we are able to get a quality striker and keep Costa this summer.
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    (Original post by bammy jastard 27)
    Not really.

    Baba Rahman is a more than accomplished fullback who doesn't get enough gametime to prove himself. There is actually zero need for an attacking midfielder. The entire aim of buying a box to box CM is to avoid us having to play a formation that requires an attacking midfielder(which we don't require). We also have Cuadrado to come back meaning Willian can play there with Oscar if needed. Nainggolan plays with Matic and Fabregas in a 3 man midfield. It also means that the 3 attackers are higher up the pitch rather than deep like in the 4-2-3-1 meaning that they have more creative freedom(Hazard and Willian in particular need this to thrive).

    In all honesty this all points to Conte playing a 4-3-3, or possibly a 4-4-2 if we are able to get a quality striker and keep Costa this summer.
    I forgot about Rahman. I guess he could play on the left and Cesar on the right.

    Chelsea won't and definitely shouldn't play a 4-4-2 (unless Conte is going to fix the games again). The 4-4-2 for top sides should have died years ago.

    I also don't see how Fabregas would work in a two. He never bothered pressing in Mourinho's high press and in a 4-4-2 he'd be required to cover yards to make up for the fact that Chelsea would be outnumbered in the middle by sides using the 4-2-3-1 and 4-3-3. I doubt Oscar would fit a 4-4-2, he has played in the as a centre mid on occasion I guess, but I wouldn't want to rely on him.

    I haven't watched Serie A on a regular basis in years, so I'm not too familiar with Nainggolan, but I assumed he was going to replace Matic who's been awful since 2014. I'd say at least two centre miss are needed if a 433 is used. There's Fabregas, Nainggolan, Matic as your regulars but you're only one or two injuries from playing the likes of Mikel.
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    (Original post by Diego Costa)
    I forgot about Rahman. I guess he could play on the left and Cesar on the right.

    Chelsea won't and definitely shouldn't play a 4-4-2 (unless Conte is going to fix the games again). The 4-4-2 for top sides should have died years ago.

    I also don't see how Fabregas would work in a two. He never bothered pressing in Mourinho's high press and in a 4-4-2 he'd be required to cover yards to make up for the fact that Chelsea would be outnumbered in the middle by sides using the 4-2-3-1 and 4-3-3. I doubt Oscar would fit a 4-4-2, he has played in the as a centre mid on occasion I guess, but I wouldn't want to rely on him.

    I haven't watched Serie A on a regular basis in years, so I'm not too familiar with Nainggolan, but I assumed he was going to replace Matic who's been awful since 2014. I'd say at least two centre miss are needed if a 433 is used. There's Fabregas, Nainggolan, Matic as your regulars but you're only one or two injuries from playing the likes of Mikel.
    4-4-2 is used by Atlético regularly and Real used it under Ancelotti in big games in the run to the 2014 CL copa del rey double...

    Pretty sure Bayern played with a 4-4-1-1(with Muller behind Lewandowski) which is essentially a 4-4-2 variation with a deeper lying forward. It's a useful tactic to be able to utilise.

    Fabregas can work in a 2 with the right player next to him, he might not and you use Matic and Nainggolan but it's a tactic we can use in games with the right midfield duo and when we need to be more offensive.

    Nainggolan is a box to box midfielder, Matic is used as a defensive midfielder. Loftus Cheek is also there, Mikel is decent enough backup and in all honesty worst comes to worst Oscar/Willian play there. Another midfielder on top wouldn't go amiss but I don't mind starting the season with just Nainggolan bought, at least it means Loftus Cheek will get gametime.

    Nainggolan wouldn't work together with Fabregas but he'd work great in a 3 man midfield.
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    Bump.

    Yeah thought Spurs wouldn't be that good. Like literally take a real look at their team man. They got a great defence but their attacking quality is inconsistent at best and is a team that's based on potential(when the likes of Chelsea/City/Arsenal have ready made players). They struggle to score goals regularly and that screws them over. Kane will probably get circa 20 PL goals this season though.

    They're on the same level as Liverpool but Liverpool don't have Europe so are at a major advantage(the type that turns you from top 4 contenders to title challengers). It's not like Spurs are crap though, more that the competition are very good and they're struggling playing more than one competition.

    Also Fabregas played in a 2 many times earlier this season where he changed games off the bench.
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    (Original post by bammy jastard 27)
    Bump.

    Yeah thought Spurs wouldn't be that good. Like literally take a real look at their team man. They got a great defence but their attacking quality is inconsistent at best and is a team that's based on potential(when the likes of Chelsea/City/Arsenal have ready made players). They struggle to score goals regularly and that screws them over. Kane will probably get circa 20 PL goals this season though.

    They're on the same level as Liverpool but Liverpool don't have Europe so are at a major advantage(the type that turns you from top 4 contenders to title challengers). It's not like Spurs are crap though, more that the competition are very good and they're struggling playing more than one competition.

    Also Fabregas played in a 2 many times earlier this season where he changed games off the bench.
    Kane will struggle to get 20 this season.
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    (Original post by trapking)
    Kane will struggle to get 20 this season.
    Hes mad pen fraud but 13 goals from open play and 6/7 pens isnt far fetched.
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    Pochettino has escaped criticism for a poor Champions League display this year IMO. Ignoring all the grumbles about playing at Wembley, they should have performed better to make a sterner attempt to get out of their group. As a coach building his reputation he could have added to it with a strong run in the competition yet he seemed to pick weak line ups (v Monaco). It's just baffling, having worked hard to get into the tournament last season that they delivered an underwhelming performance.

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    (Original post by bammy jastard 27)
    Bump.

    Yeah thought Spurs wouldn't be that good. Like literally take a real look at their team man. They got a great defence but their attacking quality is inconsistent at best and is a team that's based on potential(when the likes of Chelsea/City/Arsenal have ready made players). They struggle to score goals regularly and that screws them over. Kane will probably get circa 20 PL goals this season though.

    They're on the same level as Liverpool but Liverpool don't have Europe so are at a major advantage(the type that turns you from top 4 contenders to title challengers). It's not like Spurs are crap though, more that the competition are very good and they're struggling playing more than one competition.
    Spurs' midfield is entirely good but not great players in a system which makes them look better. I don't think defenders feel the same facing Christian Eriksen as they do facing Kevin De Bruyne, Eden Hazard or Mesut Ozil.

    Spurs were a good team playing very well from the mid point of the season to the final few games. Sans bottlejob they'd have got less than 80 points which still isn't enough for a title challenge if that's the squad at full capacity.

    I'd say that Liverpool are slightly better attacking wise but defensively Spurs are much better.

    Also Fabregas played in a 2 many times earlier this season where he changed games off the bench.
    This was based on the assumption that they wouldn't have Kante, Luiz and Cesar (playing centre back). I don't disagree that Fabregas can change games from the bench, however I'd only really trust him when teams are parking the bus and there's no risk of him getting exposed.

    (Original post by Aky786UK)
    Pochettino has escaped criticism for a poor Champions League display this year IMO. Ignoring all the grumbles about playing at Wembley, they should have performed better to make a sterner attempt to get out of their group. As a coach building his reputation he could have added to it with a strong run in the competition yet he seemed to pick weak line ups (v Monaco). It's just baffling, having worked hard to get into the tournament last season that they delivered an underwhelming performance.
    Poch bottled the FA Cup in 2014 with Southampton and the Europa League last season. If you remember he rested players against Dortmund in the first leg so that the first team could be fresh for Villa and Bournemouth. He just isn't ruthless enough to go all out for the cups.
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    They're a decent side who punched above their weight last season, nothing more. I really don't understand all the hype regarding Pochettino. The main thing I can give him credit for is bringing through young players.

    Their defence is excellent but further forward their midfield is too static, Eriksen/Alli far too inconsistent, they have no wingers besides Lamela who's injured again and Kane is often left far too isolated up front. They need a creative midfielder, a winger, and arguably another striker.

    They should be prioritising the Europa League as the club really needs a trophy and they aren't finishing in the top four.
 
 
 
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