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Brexiters - Give me three reasons...

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    (Original post by ByEeek)
    What red tape and taxes do you refer to?
    And which laws can't we change that we would want to?
    As for foreign trade out of the EU? How would that be easier. It isn't particularly hard now. You just have to pay the necessary duties depending on where you are exporting. Outside the EU, you will still have to pay those duties just as those importing to the UK similarly have to pay import duty depending on what the product is.
    The red tape, for example, is the 12,600 EU laws that are related to bread. Regulations make it more difficult for businesses and the economy to thrive. A lack of regulations is why the German economy recovered so well after ww2. Another example is that 20% of British onion produce is thrown away because it does not meet EU standards (it is the wrong shape).

    You don't seem to know much about foreign trading. A free trade deal means that tariffs are not put on imported products and if we export to the country then tariffs are not put on our products. Being in the EU means that we cannot form our own trade deals, the EU has complete control over this. It took the EU six years to negotiate a trade deal with Canada. Outside of the EU we can form our own trade deals.
    Also the Eu currently has a barrier preventing certain products from Africa being imported because that would compete with businesses in Eastern EU countries. Leaving could therefore resulting in lower prices when buying groceries.
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    (Original post by TSRFT8)
    Sure, but is that really the best thing you could come up with or something.

    Honestly i PERSONALLY feel the leave campaign is clutching on straws and finding petty issues to try and build a debate but its just going no where. I dont mean it to sound offensive its just my own personal opinion and sure its probably biased.
    You don't seem to be able to argue for the remain campaign without spitting out lies or insults.
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    (Original post by TSRFT8)
    Sure, but is that really the best thing you could come up with or something.

    Honestly i PERSONALLY feel the leave campaign is clutching on straws and finding petty issues to try and build a debate but its just going no where. I dont mean it to sound offensive its just my own personal opinion and sure its probably biased.
    (Original post by ByEeek)
    I thought you might mention that. So we need to leave the EU so that women can buy tampons at a slightly reduced rate?

    Is that the best you can do?
    not the best but i am cleaning my guns ready so they can taste blood in the upcoming inevitable civil war
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    (Original post by TomTheImp)
    You don't seem to know much about foreign trading. A free trade deal means that tariffs are not put on imported products and if we export to the country then tariffs are not put on our products. Being in the EU means that we cannot form our own trade deals, the EU has complete control over this. It took the EU six years to negotiate a trade deal with Canada. Outside of the EU we can form our own trade deals.
    I would level the same argument against you. When we think of free trade we think "Brilliant - I can sell my product abroad with no duty to pay" but we tend to forget that free trade also means foreign companies can compete directly with our own. And then all of a sudden you end up getting knarly disputes over what the definition of "bread" is beause 5th generation Bob has been baking bread one way for 200 years and some cheap foreign import with no wheat, yeast or water in it, but called bread, is putting him out of business. So we end up writing a document to classify bread and before you know it, you have 12600 rules governing what constitutes bread.

    As for onions. It isn't the EU that is fussy about onions of the wrong shape. It is people like you and me. Although I grow my own. http://wastenotuk.com/
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    Can someone explain to me how controlling EU immigration is racist when majority of the EU is also white? :confused:
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    The EU is an oligarchy, I'd rather stay in a democracy.
    1. More legislative control
    2. More control of our borders
    3. Better trade agreements
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    The way I see it, we have lots of problems with our current government, but the EU then adds another layer of many of them. Like overpaid politicians, the influence of big business on politics and policy making, conflicts of interest within government, stupid bureaucracy, etc. Examples of this would be things like TTIP (influence of big business), and some requirements under the CAP including one which basically forces farmers to clear "unwanted" vegetation from fields even when that vegetation is important for conservation purposes (stupid bureaucracy). Then you have biosecurity issues with free trade, like when ash dieback was brought into the UK on imported trees and both the EU and UK governments were too slow to do anything even when the problem was known for years.

    For me, it's lots of little problems that add up, and I worry that a vote to remain will be seen as a vote of confidence in the EU and nothing of significance will be changed or reformed. So while the problems I have could theoretically be solved through reforms, I have no faith that this would happen. Then you have that "ever closer union" thing which I don't think is a good thing.
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    And can we please stop with this nonsensical narrative about how leave voters are all stupid uneducated morons with no understanding of the EU and who are misleading the public with their arguments, and the remain voters are all smart and enlightened and reasonable and being perfectly accurate with their arguments. There are legitimate concerns and arguments on both sides, and there is a huge amount of misleading information and BS on both sides. The sooner everyone realises this and stops with this ridiculous political snobbery the better.
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    I'll give you one reason. Your teacher is correct.

    You're going to leave school. Will there be a job for you?

    The answer is, probably no. Immigrants are taking up all the jobs for school leavers. Youth unemployment is growing.

    Social services are becoming less and less. You'll have to go on JSA and you'll be forced to accept work you don't want, that even immigrants don't want.
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    (Original post by TSRFT8)
    Had an argument with one of my teachers earlier about this.

    I asked him to give me a reason as to why anyone should vote to leave the EU; his reply "Social security because of less immigrants"

    Is this seriously all the leave campaign has? Its literally all i hear the same old "less immigrants more jobs"

    I find it amusing as the majority of the people who want out are the usual racist, unemployed and uneducated morons, without an actual clue as to what a leave vote would mean.

    So apart from the usual "immigrants teking our jubs" what else does a leave vote offer?

    Discuss - Entertain - Amuse
    Really? So firstly the fact that we have a limited job market and each individual person - of whatever nationality - reduces the abundance of this resource, there aren't enough jobs as is creating a corporate culture of ridiculous overtime as well as forcing good staff out because a bad member of staff is more friendly with the high ups before the orders to create redundancies come in and yes I have seen this first hand. Its easy for people who have never spent a day in these environments to get on their high horse and judge but when in less than half a century massive areas of England have changed from almost 90% white to having the same couple who bought the house in those situations as a vast minority surrounded by people who prefer to speak their own language, signs they cant understand and cultures they are not attuned to - its hard to adapt. There is not a simple 'immigration is good or bad' binary but too much leniency and you damage the lives of the citizens who should be the primary concern of a government, too little and you create xenophobic weirdos who fear difference. It is not fair to the citizens already in place to make them aliens in their own country. Before the 'well integration and cultural enrichment' argument that everyone drags out as an apparent refutation of actual logic, some integrate, some dont. If I made up a bunch of language and cultural practices then basically without warning plopped a bunch of people who believed in it right on your doorstep would you be happy when your known way of life suddenly drastically changed? No, so why is it any different when the language and culture are real rather than my made up BS.

    As for the majority of leave are racist uneducated morons bit, get over yourself. This sort of insufferable attitude is pushing me towards leave (though as of now I'm undecided) - not only is it astoundingly judgmental and an ad hominem with no evidence whatsoever it assumes your level of education to be higher than that of everyone in the leave camp which is an inherently ridiculous statement. There is no 'uneducated moron' about it, people hold different beliefs - and assuming them to be inherently inferior is such pretentious rubbish you'd fit right in with the other silver spoon n*bhead 'we know best' MP's.

    As i see it leave has some legitimate points;

    1) Democracy and parliamentary sovereignty. The right to democracy is diminished when we are accountable to a force we had no choice in the appointment of, its a distillation of the fundamental right of citizens to pick their government and though the courts have no functional ability to impose laws on us most of the time, once is too many. Our own judiciary should check our legislature according to our constitution, it should not be up to another judiciary made up of people who have little or no lived experience of the UK to tell the UK government exactly what they may do - our government should be free until it infringed the rights of citizens in accordance with constitutional rules. We need more protections in the UK from crap legislation (the EU was the only reason we shot down the 2002(?) BS terror act) but leaving the EU to decide the tone of our judiciary is not the only solution nor is it by any means ideal. The EU demands we do not establish beneficial trade deals elsewhere which serves only EU interests, not those of the UK and this split loyalty is a constant issue in allowing our sovereignty to be trumped from elsewhere.

    2) We should by rights be allowed to buy back into the free market. Pre-Mastricht, the EU was a trade organisation and its roots are well established. The political union was not the primary goal. As other countries have done we should have a right to buy back in which is cheaper than our membership fee.

    3) Not only is it a bureaucracy its an inefficient one. The EU lost £1 billion to fraud http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-eu-fraud-idUKKCN0YM0Q8 and props up its own existence even if against majority will by using the membership fee to self propagate http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/600...ashington-Ukip and thats when it isnt outright losing hundreds of thousands of pounds and it simply has no idea where they went (unfortunately no citation however this is pretty much common knowledge as no such system is 100% efficient and the larger the total sum the more it loses as a rule). Further they can arbitrarily demand money http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...EU-budget.html

    there are more reasons but I wont list them currently as this post is long enough as is, however the 'they just hate immigrants and are uneducated morons' line of argument is so tired and misrepresentative its laughable.
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    (Original post by TSRFT8)
    Had an argument with one of my teachers earlier about this.

    I asked him to give me a reason as to why anyone should vote to leave the EU; his reply "Social security because of less immigrants"

    Is this seriously all the leave campaign has? Its literally all i hear the same old "less immigrants more jobs"

    I find it amusing as the majority of the people who want out are the usual racist, unemployed and uneducated morons, without an actual clue as to what a leave vote would mean.

    So apart from the usual "immigrants teking our jubs" what else does a leave vote offer?

    Discuss - Entertain - Amuse
    I'm liking the slogan at the end of that XP
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    brexiters. moronic racists who should live in the gutter
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    (Original post by 1st european)
    brexiters. moronic racists who should live in the gutter
    And the prize for most ironic post of 5 October 2016 goes to...
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    1. Waste of money in a blackhole of EU bureaucracy and eurocrats. We don't get a good deal, even with the rebate, compared to the poorer countries in the EU.
    2. EU law reigning supreme over UK law. Don't agree with that at all.
    3. Free movement of people/immigration. We already have a massive housing shortage, the country is full until we finally get our act together and build more affordable housing. Does that make me a teeny weeny bit racist? You decide.
    4. Don't like all the talk of the EU 'Project' and creating an EU army. Who said the EU was a 'project'? What is its goal, to become some sort of superstate by the backdoor? All seems very shady to me.

    Oops, 4 reasons...
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    Why do people think leaving the EU will create more jobs? I'm quite pro Brexit, balanced if you ask me since leaving the EU is more progressive than years of reformation, reforming common agricultural policy was tough enough so imagine what systematic and political reformation would look like. But leaving the EU will not make it easier for someone to get a job, they do not take our jobs, they create jobs here and take them. How many British people work in a firm that has strong ties to the EU? Many, as in most people on salaries over 60k out of the public sector. There are those who have intellectual reasons for leaving and those who think leaving the EU will magically give their slacking, under qualified, uneducated, racist selfs a job. The EU has many faults and I just think the concept and the way it's moving forward isn't the direction Britain should head in.
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    (Original post by zayn008)
    Why do people think leaving the EU will create more jobs? I'm quite pro Brexit, balanced if you ask me since leaving the EU is more progressive than years of reformation, reforming common agricultural policy was tough enough so imagine what systematic and political reformation would look like. But leaving the EU will not make it easier for someone to get a job, they do not take our jobs, they create jobs here and take them. How many British people work in a firm that has strong ties to the EU? Many, as in most people on salaries over 60k out of the public sector. There are those who have intellectual reasons for leaving and those who think leaving the EU will magically give their slacking, under qualified, uneducated, racist selfs a job. The EU has many faults and I just think the concept and the way it's moving forward isn't the direction Britain should head in.
    Decreases in unemployment don't necessarily require more jobs, neither in nominal or relative terms. I.e. if 20,000 fewer jobs are created but the population grows by 30,000 less then there will still be a cut in unemployment, although I can't say I've seen people claiming more jobs will be created.
 
 
 
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