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    (Original post by niv1234)
    If drugs were made legal, wouldn't more people think its ok to take them, who wouldn't have before?
    The evidence points to no. Anyone who is really interested in drugs will find a way to get them regardless of whether or not they're legal.

    Granted, some people who wouldn't have taken drugs will take them now that they're legal, but for the most part it will just be the same people doing the drugs who already do them, only fewer people doing them underage, and those who do take drugs will do them more safely since people will be able to have an unbiased education on the topic.
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    (Original post by KomradeKorbyn)
    The evidence points to no. Anyone who is really interested in drugs will find a way to get them regardless of whether or not they're legal.

    Granted, some people who wouldn't have taken drugs will take them now that they're legal, but for the most part it will just be the same people doing the drugs who already do them, only fewer people doing them underage, and those who do take drugs will do them more safely since people will be able to have an unbiased education on the topic.
    Perhaps but if drugs were readily available everywhere and easier to buy wouldn't people who would never have thought of taking drugs before try it? I don't know, just curious.
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    (Original post by KomradeKorbyn)
    Alcohol is easy to buy underage because it's been so embedded into our culture for thousands of years that it's sold almost everywhere - and the place you get alcohol from underage is generally a dodgy corner-shop that doesn't care about ID.

    A proper legalization law would only allow things like cannabis to be sold from reputable shops that have to pass regulation requirements, and so it's incredibly unlikely to be anywhere near as easy to buy as alcohol is when you're underage.

    And besides, given that none of us lived through prohibition, we don't exactly have a lot to compare alcohol being legalized too, since it has always been legal in our lifetimes. If it was illegal in the way that cannabis is, the same thing would happen that happened in prohibition - it would be overall a lot more dangerous, because there is no regulation and the business is run by black market criminals rather than regular shop owners, and it would only really be possible to buy spirits since smuggling something with a low alcohol content like beer wouldn't be worth the hassle.

    The situation with underage drinking obviously isn't great, but it would be far worse if alcohol was made illegal.

    Well it's illegal in Saudi Arabia and I don't think that's an issue. We've got a weak left wing society of liberals that have only brought about destruction, if we had a stronger government, we could have these laws and enforce them properly with very little adversity.
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    (Original post by hezzlington)
    can you quote the source that claims the same will be true if other drugs are legalized? What other drugs, specifically?
    It wasn't the study I was originally thinking of, but this wiki article on Portugal's decriminalization outlines the general idea. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Portugal

    In 2001 Portugal made it no longer a criminal offence with jail time to possess small amounts of any drug at all. The results show that drug usage has not risen, and deaths from drug-related causes have been reduced dramatically, due to things like campaigns for people to no longer share needles, which caused high rates of HIV amongst drug users.
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    (Original post by #JOSH45#)
    Well it's illegal in Saudi Arabia and I don't think that's an issue. We've got a weak left wing society of liberals that have only brought about destruction, if we had a stronger government, we could have these laws and enforce them properly with very little adversity.
    People still do drugs in Saudi Arabia, it's just when they're caught instead of getting a short prison sentence they're treated like murderers and other actual criminals, for what is essentially a victimless crime, and given huge prisons sentence for something that harms nobody but themself.

    You complain about the government enforcing laws you disagree with, yet your solution is to essentially bring in a government with laws almost everyone disagrees with, and brutally punish those that stray slightly from what politicians view as being 'good'.
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    (Original post by KomradeKorbyn)
    It wasn't the study I was originally thinking of, but this wiki article on Portugal's decriminalization outlines the general idea. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Portugal

    In 2001 Portugal made it no longer a criminal offence with jail time to possess small amounts of any drug at all. The results show that drug usage has not risen, and deaths from drug-related causes have been reduced dramatically, due to things like campaigns for people to no longer share needles, which caused high rates of HIV amongst drug users.
    From the wikipedia article you provided

    "But critics of the policy, such as the Association for a Drug-Free Portugal, say overall consumption of drugs in the country has actually risen by 4.2 percent since 2001 and claim the benefits of decriminalization are being over-egged"


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    (Original post by niv1234)
    Perhaps but if drugs were readily available everywhere and easier to buy wouldn't people who would never have thought of taking drugs before try it? I don't know, just curious.
    Good question, and yes they would, but as shown by countries like the Netherlands it would only be a small number of people.

    And besides, why is it a bad thing? Drugs like cannabis, if done safely, will do very little harm to people. Why should we stop people from choosing to undergo the minor risk of harming themself if they know the risks and choose to take them?

    Should the government then stop people from doing other fun-but-risky things like mountain biking, or sky diving? Alcohol is quite a lot less safe than cannabis, should people be allowed to drink? I would say that we should attempt to educate people on making a rational and logical decision, but at the end of the day it is still their decision to make.
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    Drugs need to be made legal, then we need to integrate drug education into schools to discourage kids from actually taking drugs. Or drinking alcohol.

    Right now, people buy drugs illegally as dares or to impress their friends, because they're seen as rebelling against 'the man'. If 'the man' stops denying them the right to take drugs, and instead just tells them they're idiots if they take drugs, they might be a bit less motivated to bother.

    Discouragement is always better than trying to hold things from people. If God had told Adam & Eve that the forbidden apple tastes like piss, rather than begging them not to eat it, they probably wouldn't have eaten it.
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    (Original post by Jazzyboy)
    Drugs need to be made legal, then we need to integrate drug education into schools to discourage kids from actually taking drugs. Or drinking alcohol.

    Right now, people buy drugs illegally as dares or to impress their friends, because they're seen as rebelling against 'the man'. If 'the man' stops denying them the right to take drugs, and instead just tells them they're idiots if they take drugs, they might be a bit less motivated to bother.

    Discouragement is always better than trying to hold things from people. If God had told Adam & Eve that the forbidden apple tastes like piss, rather than begging them not to eat it, they probably wouldn't have eaten it.
    We already have drug education in school in pastoral lessons don't we? That just gave us a load of info about different types of drugs out there.
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    Look at similar cultures such as the western world and see if what it does like California or wherever they have legalised weed for example see how it affects communities and go from there. You don't know what will happen until we see the results, end of.
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    (Original post by hezzlington)
    From the wikipedia article you provided

    "But critics of the policy, such as the Association for a Drug-Free Portugal, say overall consumption of drugs in the country has actually risen by 4.2 percent since 2001 and claim the benefits of decriminalization are being over-egged"

    :dontknow:
    4.2% rise isn't a huge amount, but yes still significant. However, if the number of people being damaged by drugs has gone down hugely (as it has), then the benefits of drug legalization clearly outweigh the risks.

    It is far safer to have a few more people using drugs if almost everyone is using them safely and so presents little danger to themselves, than to have a slightly smaller number of people using drugs but have many of them using dirty needles to inject heroin cut with even more dangerous things bought from a dodgy criminal in an alley.
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    (Original post by KomradeKorbyn)
    People still do drugs in Saudi Arabia, it's just when they're caught instead of getting a short prison sentence they're treated like murderers and other actual criminals, for what is essentially a victimless crime, and given huge prisons sentence for something that harms nobody but themself.

    You complain about the government enforcing laws you disagree with, yet your solution is to essentially bring in a government with laws almost everyone disagrees with, and brutally punish those that stray slightly from what politicians view as being 'good'.
    It's hardly a "victimless crime" , as soon as a high person gets behind a wheel and drives and crashes into your car with your family in it, you tell me it's a victimless when you've got a loved on in a coma ... Okay ?

    & that's the thing with liberals they're so blinded to the facts that they are in the minority, we live in a conservative society, more people agree with me than agree with you, that's why labour and lib dems never win anymore lol, because their voters are the minority.
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    (Original post by niv1234)
    We already have drug education in school in pastoral lessons don't we? That just gave us a load of info about different types of drugs out there.
    I for one never had any decent drug education that presented a balanced and scientific argument, instead it was "all drugs are incredibly dangerous and you're an idiot for taking them" - all this results in is people finding out eventually that that's a complete lie, and a lot of drugs are relatively safe. Only this same logic will then be applied to much harder drugs, which are often not safe.

    Not only is drug education in schools often inaccurate (from my experience), it is also going to be very biased and unscientific, as shown by the Conservative's drug policy of "ignore the facts, drugs are always bad and that's that". A large amount of scientific evidence shows that it's completely untrue, yet a lot of the conservative voter base believes it to be true and so they will continue with the rhetoric. I'm not saying it's anything to do with people who're conservatives, just that the conservative leadership itself has an obviously flawed view on the topic.
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    (Original post by KomradeKorbyn)
    I for one never had any decent drug education that presented a balanced and scientific argument, instead it was "all drugs are incredibly dangerous and you're an idiot for taking them" - all this results in is people finding out eventually that that's a complete lie, and a lot of drugs are relatively safe. Only this same logic will then be applied to much harder drugs, which are often not safe.

    Not only is drug education in schools often inaccurate (from my experience), it is also going to be very biased and unscientific, as shown by the Conservative's drug policy of "ignore the facts, drugs are always bad and that's that". A large amount of scientific evidence shows that it's completely untrue, yet a lot of the conservative voter base believes it to be true and so they will continue with the rhetoric. I'm not saying it's anything to do with people who're conservatives, just that the conservative leadership itself has an obviously flawed view on the topic.
    Oh really? Our drug lesson were more informative, we learned about the different types of drugs and their effects.
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    (Original post by niv1234)
    We already have drug education in school in pastoral lessons don't we? That just gave us a load of info about different types of drugs out there.
    I don't know about your school, but in my school, we just learnt about what classes drugs were in, and a few of the health problems that occur due to them. Teachers are usually very careful not to actually cite what the experience is like. The only session we had that actually seemed to discourage my fellow students from considering drugs was when a local policeman came in and told us all about his friend's experience with magic mushrooms, and how his friend died because he hallucinated while flying an airplane. Most sessions were rubbish, as nobody cares about the 'potential side-effects' that are listed on paper. Teachers need to discuss real bad experiences with illegal drugs.

    I know those sessions were rubbish because I know that at least half the people who attended that class have now taken illegal drugs since then. (I haven't myself, of course. I've looked up what the experience is like; and I must say; none of them sound at all appealing to me)
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    (Original post by KomradeKorbyn)
    4.2% rise isn't a huge amount, but yes still significant. However, if the number of people being damaged by drugs has gone down hugely (as it has), then the benefits of drug legalization clearly outweigh the risks.

    It is far safer to have a few more people using drugs if almost everyone is using them safely and so presents little danger to themselves, than to have a slightly smaller number of people using drugs but have many of them using dirty needles to inject heroin cut with even more dangerous things bought from a dodgy criminal in an alley.
    The 'damage' from drugs hasn't gone down, the damage from secondary effects of drugs has gone down. Anti needle programs etc. Decrease in HIV. Sure, it's great. But how can you use hard drugs like heroin 'safely'? Addicts are a significant danger to themselves and others.
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    (Original post by niv1234)
    Oh really? Our drug lesson were more informative, we learned about the different types of drugs and their effects.
    I also did this a few years back when I was in year 10/11. Quite a bit from certain sexual health clinics and KCL students used to come in every Monday and do a workshop with us on it.
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    (Original post by #JOSH45#)
    It's hardly a "victimless crime" , as soon as a high person gets behind a wheel and drives and crashes into your car with your family in it, you tell me it's a victimless when you've got a loved on in a coma ... Okay ?
    By the same logic alcohol should be made illegal, given that it's even more dangerous that marijuana when driving.

    Regardless, making drugs illegal doesn't solve the problem of people driving whilst high. It makes it worse as people are going to be less educated on the issue, and the sorts of people who would drive whilst high are likely already doing so and already have access to weed illegally, the sort of people who don't do drugs because they're illegal are obviously not the sort of people to break the law and drive whilst inebriated.


    (Original post by #JOSH45#)
    & that's the thing with liberals they're so blinded to the facts that they are in the minority, we live in a conservative society, more people agree with me than agree with you, that's why labour and lib dems never win anymore lol, because their voters are the minority.
    I'm not calling conservative views a minority, I'm calling your idea a minority that the solution to our problems is to have a government similar to that of Saudi Arabia, where people are jailed over nothing and live in fear of the state.
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    (Original post by hezzlington)
    The 'damage' from drugs hasn't gone down, the damage from secondary effects of drugs has gone down. Anti needle programs etc. Decrease in HIV. Sure, it's great. But how can you use hard drugs like heroin 'safely'? Addicts are a significant danger to themselves and others.
    It's wording, the secondary effects of drugs are essentially still the effects of drugs, because without the drugs then they wouldn't happen at all.

    I'm not sure what your argument is, drug decriminalization in Portugal resulted in people overall using drugs safer and thus damaging themselves less, thus reducing the danger that addicts pose to themselves and others.

    Hard drugs like heroin can be used safely, but it's obviously very difficult and would require very good self-control to avoid addiction, and it's such an addictive drug that it's better to just avoid it entirely. I'm not saying that all of these people are using hard drugs safely, just that they're using them safer, so they're no longer putting themselves at as much risk, and as such rates of things like HIV amonst addicts have gone down dramtically.
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    (Original post by KomradeKorbyn)
    By the same logic alcohol should be made illegal, given that it's even more dangerous that marijuana when driving.

    Regardless, making drugs illegal doesn't solve the problem of people driving whilst high. It makes it worse as people are going to be less educated on the issue, and the sorts of people who would drive whilst high are likely already doing so and already have access to weed illegally, the sort of people who don't do drugs because they're illegal are obviously not the sort of people to break the law and drive whilst inebriated.




    I'm not calling conservative views a minority, I'm calling your idea a minority that the solution to our problems is to have a government similar to that of Saudi Arabia, where people are jailed over nothing and live in fear of the state.
    I can tell you that first point of yours is incredibly untrue.

    You're taking my Saudi Arabia example slightly too literally. This is a Church of England country and it ought to remain that way. But not be a soft touch and allow this "everything goes" mentality that the left has encouraged, because it's simply not true.
 
 
 
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