Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free

Are Remainers too cocky and what do you think the result will be? Watch

  • View Poll Results: What will be the likely % vote share of Leave?
    Under 25
    6
    3.85%
    25 - 30
    3
    1.92%
    31 - 35
    6
    3.85%
    36 - 40
    10
    6.41%
    41 - 45
    35
    22.44%
    46 - 50
    48
    30.77%
    51 - 55
    39
    25.00%
    56 - 60
    5
    3.21%
    61 - 65
    0
    0%
    Over 65
    4
    2.56%

    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    I definitely suffer from confirmation bias. I deliberately know very few racist, greedy or uneducated people, therefore everyone around me is pro-EU, left-voting and bias-confirming. I strongly hope we stay in, but I have no idea how it will go. My social circle is not representative and older people and those with lower educational attainment are more likely to vote leave.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Bornblue)
    You need to be pragmatic and realistic.
    Leaving will give a very right wing Tory government, who are rigging the bound sites in their favour even more power.

    It won't be this democratic left wing utopia you seem to be imagining.
    I don't need to be 'pragmatic' at all, as though the long term was worthless, it's not the way I think. I'm sick of fear based, treadmill living, elites that want you in limbo, stuff made out to be liberal and benevolent that is the opposite, and soulless visionless, bean counting 'pragmatism'. It's the kind of 'bean counting' utilitarianism of a bureaucrat that would have been happy to dispense with corpses, ticking them off as objects on a list, during the 40's in Europe. Oddly enough I still think it has many potential totalitarian traits. I'm not being melodramatic and saying we are there, I'm saying I see signs and that the same psyche is there more subtly in the superstate project and in politics that lean this way. All the micromanagement and distrust or free thinkers, and liberty is there-European prefer being watched over, and they have done historically. I think too many remain people are oblivious about what made us great, our history, and what is so obviously within our grasp for the long term if we seize it, if we do not succumb to fear, and authoritarianism, and defeatism.

    Pragmatic about preserving the low wage economy with floods of cheap labour, the over population, the needless attempts at growth of overall GDP instead of per person, or quality of life, the hundreds of thousands(even millions now?) living off food donations in our supposedly booming economy(as I've said, I'd be happy to take a poorer short term economy and take them out of that) and we have an election in 3 years time for gods sake. They have done all this to our country within the EU, so what point you are making I have no idea, as though the whole of the futre is predicted, and our democracy and all the changes we can go through on our own are worthless, we can't shape our future. We can reclaim our democracy, and stop just rubbishing that as though it's some fantasy of a child, because it makes me sick.It's what we always were, why we were successful, and we would protect so many others countries in the world's right to it, yet with throw it away ourselves.

    Leaving will give you the same Tory government you elected, and they can be gone in 3 years, so I guess that's a reason to give away our freedom for good.

    You depress me profoundly.

    Do you really want to look future generations in the eye when all chance at reclaiming the uniqueness and independent greatness is gone, and say you voted pragmatically, on some bean counters statistic, about your own interests for the nest decade or so?
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by HFBS)
    I definitely suffer from confirmation bias. I deliberately know very few racist, greedy or uneducated people, therefore everyone around me is pro-EU, left-voting and bias-confirming. I strongly hope we stay in, but I have no idea how it will go. My social circle is not representative and older people and those with lower educational attainment are more likely to vote leave.
    Yeah no-one pro EU is greedy are they, not getting rich off a continual tide of pay-peanuts, wage compressed labour? And there's not loads of Europeans, and Brits who favour free movement and EU migration, with EU applicants prioritized for any job(even a chef in a curry house, ludicrously) because it's almost exclusively white and always considerably whiter than other policies, so no racists either.

    Get a clue please, no offence, but this vote is so important.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
    I don't need to be 'pragmatic' at all, as though the long term was worthless, it's not the way I think. I'm sick of fear based, treadmill living, elites that want you in limbo, stuff made out to be liberal and benevolent that is the opposite, and soulless visionless, bean counting 'pragmatism'. It's the kind of 'bean counting' utilitarianism of a bureaucrat that would have been happy to dispense with corpses, ticking them off as objects on a list, during the 40's in Europe. Oddly enough I still think it has many potential totalitarian traits. I'm not being melodramatic and saying we are there, I'm saying I see signs and that the same psyche is there more subtly in the superstate project and in politics that lean this way. All the micromanagement and distrust or free thinkers, and liberty is there-European prefer being watched over, and they have done historically. I think too many remain people are oblivious about what made us great, our history, and what is so obviously within our grasp for the long term if we seize it, if we do not succumb to fear, and authoritarianism, and defeatism.

    Pragmatic about preserving the low wage economy with floods of cheap labour, the over population, the needless attempts at growth of overall GDP instead of per person, or quality of life, the hundreds of thousands(even millions now?) living off food donations in our supposedly booming economy(as I've said, I'd be happy to take a poorer short term economy and take them out of that) and we have an election in 3 years time for gods sake. They have done all this to our country within the EU, so what point you are making I have no idea, as though the whole of the futre is predicted, and our democracy and all the changes we can go through on our own are worthless, we can't shape our future. We can reclaim our democracy, and stop just rubbishing that as though it's some fantasy of a child, because it makes me sick.It's what we always were, why we were successful, and we would protect so many others countries in the world's right to it, yet with throw it away ourselves.

    Leaving will give you the same Tory government you elected, and they can be gone in 3 years, so I guess that's a reason to give away our freedom for good.

    You depress me profoundly.

    Do you really want to look future generations in the eye when all chance at reclaiming the uniqueness and independent greatness is gone, and say you voted pragmatically, on some bean counters statistic, about your own interests for the nest decade or so?
    You always have to be pragmatic.
    If we leave the EU, you make feel great about abstract and false concepts of sovereignty and democracy but the reality is you've just handed the right wing of the Tory party even more power to sh*t all over workers and trade unions.

    I don't trust the Tories, nor do I trust the British public. I trust legally enforceable workers rights though.


    Stop with the braveheart stuff and think about what Brexit means in reality.
    Handing more power to a far right wing government. Talk about turkeys voting for Christmas..

    The Tories are already rigging the boundaries in their favour, as well as wiping millions off the electoral register and cutting Labour Party funding. I'm very happy for them to be restrained by the EU.
    Offline

    22
    ReputationRep:
    It seems to me the biggest argument for staying from politicians and students is to stop the ELECTED Conservative party from making decisions that they don't agree with. Sorry to say but clearly more people want conservatives than labour.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by niteninja1)
    It seems to me the biggest argument for staying from politicians and students is to stop the ELECTED Conservative party from making decisions that they don't agree with. Sorry to say but clearly more people want conservatives than labour.
    This is a perfectly valid argument, people complain that the EU is undemocratic (when you look into it its not that bad) but everyone seems to neglect the fact that the Tories have a majority government and so can pass any laws they want. And while they are ELECTED its a pretty unfair and undemocratic system as a minorty (37% of the electorate) get to pass laws that everyone must follow at least the EU parliament is directly elected and the seats are distributed proportionately. And yes more people want Conservative more than labour It's only about 4-5% of the electorate more and they don't have close to a majority of the vote.
    • Political Ambassador
    Online

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by Pmh1)
    This is a perfectly valid argument, people complain that the EU is undemocratic (when you look into it its not that bad) but everyone seems to neglect the fact that the Tories have a majority government and so can pass any laws they want. And while they are ELECTED its a pretty unfair and undemocratic system as a minorty (37% of the electorate) get to pass laws that everyone must follow at least the EU parliament is directly elected and the seats are distributed proportionately. And yes more people want Conservative more than labour It's only about 4-5% of the electorate more and they don't have close to a majority of the vote.
    Completely ignoring the word elected meaning WE choose our government at most every 5 years instead of simply being told who forms our government and having to simply live with it. Don't like being the Tories: vote for somebody else; don't like the EU commission: tough.

    It's also worth noting a parliamentary majority, especially such a small one, is far from a guarantee all your stuff will pass.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    I hope we remain so that I can still travel within Europe easily and cheaply

    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    If further tv debates go like Camorons and Goves.. i can see leave closing the gap quite a bit. I think leave will get 46%
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by AshEntropy)
    I hope we remain so that I can still travel within Europe easily and cheaply

    We will be able to move easily and freely around Europe . No worries on that front
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    We will . No worries on that front
    YEY!

    • Political Ambassador
    Online

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by AshEntropy)
    I hope we remain so that I can still travel within Europe easily and cheaply

    You mean like you will be able to if we leave? Brexit will not be the end of Schengen, it would jump off the Eiffel Tower if there are visas it's so unlikely, and odds are the ehic will remain, like so many other things that are involved in the fear mongering but are not at all limited to the EU, bit equally one should have private cover even in Europe anyway.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    You mean like you will be able to if we leave? Brexit will not be the end of Schengen, it would jump off the Eiffel Tower if there are visas it's so unlikely, and odds are the ehic will remain, like so many other things that are involved in the fear mongering but are not at all limited to the EU, bit equally one should have private cover even in Europe anyway.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Oh.. it would stay the same even if we leave?
    OH!
    I don't mind which happens then
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    What would happen to the Channel Tunnel if we left?
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Completely ignoring the word elected meaning WE choose our government at most every 5 years instead of simply being told who forms our government and having to simply live with it. Don't like being the Tories: vote for somebody else; don't like the EU commission: tough.

    It's also worth noting a parliamentary majority, especially such a small one, is far from a guarantee all your stuff will pass.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Firstly our "Elected" government is elected through an unfair system where the Tories have complete control even though 63% of the voters didn't want them. Secondly the commission is elected (just not representative like our government) each member state elects one person to the commission in the same way one constituency elects one person to parliament.
    • Political Ambassador
    Online

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by AshEntropy)
    Oh.. it would stay the same even if we leave?
    OH!
    I don't mind which happens then
    It would probably remain broadly the same. We already have the physical borders, the open borders in the EU will remain, considering the list of countries with visa free travel in the Schengen area we will also likely be border free. Roaming charges will likely stay down and the "worst" that could realistically happen is losing the ehic

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    It would probably remain broadly the same. We already have the physical borders, the open borders in the EU will remain, considering the list of countries with visa free travel in the Schengen area we will also likely be border free. Roaming charges will likely stay down and the "worst" that could realistically happen is losing the ehic

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Would we not need a visa to access a European union country first so that then we could travel around Europe? (Unless free movement of people was negotiated to remain the same once we left which is what many leavers don't want)
    • Political Ambassador
    Online

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by Pmh1)
    Would we not need a visa to access a European union country first so that then we could travel around Europe? (Unless free movement of people was negotiated to remain the same once we left which is what many leavers don't want)
    Probably not, I invite you to look at the countries that require Visas and note the countries that are missing that you don't need to look up, and then ask yourself which set of countries we are more likely to be a part of purely considering those already in the two groups.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Probably not, I invite you to look at the countries that require Visas and note the countries that are missing that you don't need to look up, and then ask yourself which set of countries we are more likely to be a part of purely considering those already in the two groups.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Fair enough Just checked it now so visiting probably would be the same but we'd be unable to retire/live/work there as easily as we do now? (Personally I will be able to regardless of if we leave or not as I can get a French passport but I'd rather not have to apply for it).
    • Political Ambassador
    Online

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by Pmh1)
    Fair enough Just checked it now so visiting probably would be the same but we'd be unable to retire/live/work there as easily as we do now? (Personally I will be able to regardless of if we leave or not as I can get a French passport but I'd rather not have to apply for it).
    Probably not, no, although for work I don't know how easy it is now given how few people are good at another language and I expect that would somewhat a barrier to work. At the end of the day though if you have money and skills they want most countries would let you in, and if retired if you have the money they will likely let you in, that way you spend in their economy and not your home nation's.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Brussels sprouts
    Useful resources

    Groups associated with this forum:

    View associated groups
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.