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I no longer believe in heaven or hell. Muslim watch

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    (Original post by The Epicurean)
    Ah yes, God forbid you should have to think for yourself. Being skeptical is overrated.

    I stated it merely because you mentioned khawarij in this thread. But if you wish to be paranoid and think every if a conspiracy, then go ahead.

    I'm pretty sure many ISIS members have referred to themselves as 'normal Muslims' at some point. It's a very useful term.
    Oh I can think for myself. But I'm not arrogant(nor stupid) enough to (re)start giving my own personal opinion on vast collections of text which I can't even read or trace in their original form.

    Na man, being paranoid is blaming Zamestaneh randomly for every anonymous user But if you want, I'll play along and assume Mossad hired you :teehee:

    And I'm pretty sure, many ISIS ideas, amongst other islamically devient ideas, such as yours and the ones of your "liberal Muslim" friends, have been rejected by the vast majority of us normal practicing Muslims
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    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    A lot of what you have said is Kufr. You can appeal to emotion by comparing differences if opinion to ISIS, but you are denying basic fundementals of Islam. If you continue to reject basic fundementals (which also includes the concept of Isra and Mi'raj) and deny parts of the Quran even after being given Naseeha, then you are slowly taking yourself outside of the fold of Islam. I would recommend some humility and put evidence and real knowledge over your own personal feelings.
    I'm actually using logic in fact. If logic makes me a "kufr" then I'm proud to be one.

    "Appeal to emotion" - If facts make you emotion then that's your problem. The fundamental point is that everyone has a different interpretation and saying only mine is correct because I take the Quran literally means that ISIS are the ones which are correct.

    "If you continue to reject basic fundementals (which also includes the concept of Isra and Mi'raj) and deny parts of the Quran even after being given Naseeha, then you are slowly taking yourself outside of the fold of Islam" Both of you have ignored my points. I am literally the only one not denying parts of the Quran - as both of you probably have had Christian friends before and if you take the Quran literally you two are going to hell. "Basic fundamentals" Again, what are they? ISIS say a basic fundamental is killing the unbelievers because it's everywhere in the Quran. They're correct, right? No because it's stupid and so is hating on homosexuals or believing that Prophet Mohammed literally flew to heaven on a winged horse. Symbolically I can understand the story of Prophet Mohammed's spiritual ascension to heaven but it didn't literally happen.

    If me being a secular Muslim also makes me a kufr then fine I really don't care. It's not an argument.
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    (Original post by Scythia)
    Oh I can think for myself. But I'm not arrogant(nor stupid) enough to start giving my own personal opinion on vast collections of text which I can't even read or trace in their original form.
    Ah yes. The not arrogant guy in this thread said:

    Yes I am right and you're wrong
    Wow... That is quite some arrogance.

    Na man, being paranoid is blaming Zamestaneh randomly for every anonymous user But if you want, I'll play along and assume Mossad hired you :teehee:
    That would be factually incorrect, but you wouldn't know what I do and don't say on such matters.

    Your not far off there. But I'll leave it at that.

    And I'm pretty sure, their ideas, like yours and the ones of your "secular Muslim" friends, have been rejected by the vast majority of us normal practicing Muslims
    I don't know who you are referring to. Who are these "secular Muslim" friends?
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    (Original post by Themini)
    Before I joined TSR I never saw so many of them from the same spectrum.
    Islamphobes, racists, right wingers and these guys.

    They're all the same.
    Nice generalisation. :rolleyes:
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    I'm quite curious now what the supposed khawarij hadith is?
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    (Original post by Al-farhan)
    I'm quite curious now what the supposed khawarij hadith is?
    Curiosity killed the cat
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    (Original post by The Epicurean)
    Ah yes. The not arrogant guy in this thread said:

    Wow... That is quite some arrogance.

    That would be factually incorrect, but you wouldn't know what I do and don't say on such matters.

    Your not far off there. But I'll leave it at that.

    I don't know who you are referring to. Who are these "secular Muslim" friends?
    Saying you're correct when you are correct doesn't make a person arrogant. Being arrogant means to exaggerate one's abilities. There is only option which is correct in this scenario. It's like a 1+1=2 question. One answer

    Actually I saw your posts in ex-Muslim society, so there's no hiding from this now.
    I imagine many of them were unfortunately deleted as someone might've been a bit too trigger happy on the report button.

    I swapped the word secular for liberal before you replied.
    Idk for whoever you keep pushing this "homosexuality is halal" agenda for.
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    (Original post by Al-farhan)
    I'm quite curious now what the supposed khawarij hadith is?
    Ikrimah that ‘Ali (may Allah be pleased with him) burned some people. News of that reached Ibn ‘Abbaas and he said: If it were me, I would not have burned them, because the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “Do not punish with the punishment of Allah.” And I would have executed them as the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “Whoever changes his religion, then execute him.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari (3017).


    He is calling the Ikrimah mentioned in this hadith a khawaraiji.
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    (Original post by Scythia)
    Ikrimah that ‘Ali (may Allah be pleased with him) burned some people. News of that reached Ibn ‘Abbaas and he said: If it were me, I would not have burned them, because the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “Do not punish with the punishment of Allah.” And I would have executed them as the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “Whoever changes his religion, then execute him.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari (3017).


    He is calling the Ikrimah mentioned in this hadith a khawaraiji.
    Ah, I see.
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    (Original post by Al-farhan)
    Ah, I see.
    Actually one sec, might've gave wrong hadith.
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    (Original post by The Epicurean)
    Curiosity killed the cat
    But the cat has 9 lives, so it should be safe
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    (Original post by PrinceAli)
    p.s. if I am going against Islamic basics for not believing in a metaphorical scripture literally then how come you probably have friends who are Christians or Jews? Chapter 5 verse 52. Doesn't that also make you an infidel?
    That's a horrible example, was the Prophet not friends with the King of Abyssinia and sought refuge within the Christian king's kingdom? Surely they were friends.

    And I don't see how [5:52] is relevant.
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    (Original post by Scythia)
    Actually one sec, might've gave wrong hadith.
    You what?!!!
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    (Original post by Scythia)
    Saying you're correct when you are correct doesn't make a person arrogant. Being arrogant means to exaggerate one's abilities. There is only option which is correct in this scenario. It's like a 1+1=2 question. One answer
    Ah yes, lets compare reading a subjective text which is subject to interpretation with that of a mathematical proof.

    Actually I saw your posts in ex-Muslim society, so there's no hiding from this now.
    I imagine many of them were unfortunately deleted as someone might've been a bit too trigger happy on the report button.
    Again, you don't know my actual views and opinions. People I speak to can vouch for me on this.

    I swapped the word secular for liberal before you replied.
    Idk for whoever you keep pushing this "homosexuality is halal" agenda for.
    I'm just expressing the opinions of "normal people".

    (Original post by Al-farhan)
    But the cat has 9 lives, so it should be safe
    True actually, I never thought of that :holmes:
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    (Original post by Axel Johann)
    That's a horrible example, was the Prophet not friends with the King of Abyssinia and sought refuge within the Christian king's kingdom? Surely they were friends.

    And I don't see how [5:52] is relevant.
    The point flew over your head, darn!

    Indeed Prophet Mohammed had Christian friends that is perfectly fine, but can you see the clear contradiction that to Chapter 5 Verse 51. (5:52 was a typo). However, if you take the Quran symbolically the way I believe it should be interpreted then it makes sense.
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    (Original post by The Epicurean)
    Ah yes, lets compare reading a subjective text which is subject to interpretation with that of a mathematical proof.

    Again, you don't know my actual views and opinions. People I speak to can vouch for me on this.

    I'm just expressing the opinions of "normal people who know nothing about Islam".
    There is only accepted interpretation for this matter. It's quite clear

    Well I don't know your full opinions but watching you wriggle in frustration due to Zam at one point was quite amusing anyhows

    True.
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    Wow people actually debating this. You have to try pretty hard to believe in Islam and not Hell (and it still won't work )
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    (Original post by PrinceAli)
    The point flew over your head, darn!

    Indeed Prophet Mohammed had Christian friends that is perfectly fine, but can you see the clear contradiction that to Chapter 5 Verse 51. (5:52 was a typo). However, if you take the Quran symbolically the way I believe it should be interpreted then it makes sense.
    Ah, verse 51. And yeah I agree, you have to take it symbolically as the Quran is written in poetic language, it's essentially poetry and you wouldn't take like song lyrics literally either.
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    (Original post by PrinceAli)
    The point flew over your head, darn!

    Indeed Prophet Mohammed had Christian friends that is perfectly fine, but can you see the clear contradiction that to Chapter 5 Verse 51. (5:52 was a typo). However, if you take the Quran symbolically the way I believe it should be interpreted then it makes sense.
    You're getting slightly mixed up. Those verses which ISIS take to mean kill and such don't agree with the major scholars including the major tafsir. The Qur'an states it contains both clear and unclear verses (correct me if I'm wrong). The belief in Hell seems quite clear.
 
 
 
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