British women could face Cologne-style sex attacks if we stay in the EU, says Farage.

Original post by Observatory

Generally you need a pass at B2 level which is equivalent to a full A level in the language. It's not fluency but that plus 5 years' immersion will give anyone interested in participating in the regular economy a very functional level of German. How many people from Syria are going to be natively fluent in English?

"5 years immersion" is deceiving because these migrants often live in parallel societies and spend most of their time with other migrants. Other than that, they are exposed to English in the media, video games, Internet, studies, etc.
Far more people in Syria will be fluent in English than German, that I can tell you for sure.

Original post by Observatory

And yes there are other countries involved but the vast majority of these people are living in Germany.

Germany has only recently begun with this scale of asylum. Sweden has been at it for longer and keeps granting asylum to dozens of thousands. 4 years and no language requirements for citizenship.

Original post by Observatory

Cologne was not shocking because it involved sex attacks. It was shocking because for one night the Federal Republic of Germany could not enforce its laws in the centre of a major city. Cologne was a secessionist insurrection that Germany briefly lost.

Of course it was. That was the main thing combined with the mass scale.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 42

Original post by Sophiegraceb

as a feminist, the thing that annoys me with all of this is that people like farage are sexists through and through (he wanted to get rid of parental leave in ukips 2010 manifesto) . yet then the second standing up for women allows him to be against foreigners he is practically burning his bra whilst reciting Germaine Greer's the female eunuch... he does not care about the victims, only pushing his own xenophobic agenda by exploiting an ideology he openly detests. the second those spouting this as a reason not to accept refugees actually consider the victims then i will consider this anything but the smoke screen this really is.

So anybody who does not want women to be abused is an adherent to feminism? Good luck selling that one.

Reply 43

Sophiegraceb

14

Original post by plstudent

So anybody who does not want women to be abused is an adherent to feminism? Good luck selling that one.

but farage could not care less about the victims, only the nationality of the perpetrators. if the perpetrators were white germans we would not be having this discussion

Reply 44

Observatory

Original post by plstudent

"5 years immersion" is deceiving because these migrants often live in parallel societies and spend most of their time with other migrants.

Again you are trying to have it both ways. Either they want to live in homely communities with other $home_country people, in which case the UK has no special pull and they will probably want to stay in their parallel societies in Germany, or they want to integrate with the world and get ahead in their careers, in which case waiting around 5 years to come to the UK doesn't look like the best deal when Germany is richer and has lower unemployment and it is right there.

Far more people in Syria will be fluent in English than German, that I can tell you for sure.

Far more people will have schoolboy English. Very few people will have lived, studied, and worked in an English speaking country for 5 years. And do we really want to turn away those who have? Aren't they likely to be pretty good quality people?

Germany has only recently begun with this scale of asylum. Sweden has been at it for longer and keeps granting asylum to dozens of thousands. 4 years and no language requirements for citizenship.

Right and how much of Sweden's (in my opinion very ill-advised) immigration influx has ended up in Britain?

Of course it was. That was the main thing combined with the mass scale.

Sex attacks did not occur on a mass scale. Nor were they particularly severe sex attacks. Compared to e.g. Rotherham, the sex attacks in Cologne were nothing. But Rotherham did not threaten public order. What was shocking about Cologne was the fact that it could occur in the open in front of a major public building and go on for several hours without being broken up. The police were overpowered by the scale of this immigration. The speed and the numbers caused this.

Reply 45

The Roast

Original post by Sophiegraceb

but farage could not care less about the victims, only the nationality of the perpetrators. if the perpetrators were white germans we would not be having this discussion

You don't know what you're talking about - you could not be any more wrong.

The state police control centre asked to "delete" the world "rape" from the initial report by the police following the Cologne mass rapes - a cover-up.

Would this be the case if the rapists were all white?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/cologne-police-ordered-to-remove-word-rape-from-reports-into-new-year-s-eve-sexual-assaults-a6972471.html

Reply 46

Craig1998

12

Classic fear-mongering. How many attacks have there been in the UK since the refugee crisis started? We'd need to be part of the Schengen area too or whatever for us to have borders open enough to let such a large amount of these refugees in for attacks to start happening.

Reply 47

999tigger

19

Original post by The Roast

I'm not going to read the whole thing, but the convention doesn't state "migrants", it only refers to refugees.
http://www.unhcr.org/uk/1951-refugee-convention.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/cologne-only-three-out-of-58-men-arrested-in-connection-with-mass-sex-attack-on-new-years-eve-are-a6874201.html

"Majority of suspects are of Algerian, Tunisian or Moroccan descent and none had recently arrived in Germany, police have reportedly said"

Where's the evidence for that?

People can try and enter the UK for two reasons.
1. They have a valid visa. We are bliged to let in citizens from the EU, although they cna be subject to passport control. Farage is claiming that being in the EU somehow puts us at risk and that leaving we will not be at such risk.

If we wnat to restrict EU citizens coming to the UK on Brexit, then we will have to concede that we will not be allowed access o the EU single market in any trade negotiations, becayse free movement of people is central to that.

2. The other reason we might accept people is because they are refugees. they can try to claim asylum in the UK as part of the convention. This was part of the reason Merkel let in so many. People that arent classed as refugees i,e economic migrants are deported.

Farages claim that leaving the EU would make a difference is a red herring as the 1951 convention is not a piece of EU legislation , its an independent internatlonal convention , which we would be signed up to whether we were in or out of the EU. We could ofc withdraw from that and any other international convention or treaty, but until we do, then we are bound to abide by it. In this respect we have to consider asultum claims from people claiming it.

Your point was that relatively few of them are refugees.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/immigration-statistics-april-to-june-2015/asylum

The UK has decided that it will take 4,000 per year over the next 5 years, that may or may not include 3,000 children. Germany took between hundreds of thousands and up to 1m.

Top 5 nationalities applying for asylum, year ending June 2015 compared with year ending June 2014 Ranking year ending June 2015 (Year ending June 2014) Nationality Year ending June 2014 Year ending June 2015 Grant rates based on initial decisions (1) 1 (2) Eritrea 2,113 3,568 73% 2 (1) Pakistan 3,088 2,302 22% 3 (4) Syria 1,688 2,204 87% 4 (3) Iran 2,033 2,049 57% 5 (8) Sudan 938 1,799 83%

Whether we are in or out of the EU it doesnt make any difference in respect of asylum seekers.
If you want to stop EU citizens coming, then you lose access to the single market along with the eonomic implications of that.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 48

Sophiegraceb

14

Original post by The Roast

You don't know what you're talking about - you could not be any more wrong.

The state police control centre asked to "delete" the world "rape" from the initial report by the police following the Cologne mass rapes - a cover-up.

Would this be the case if the rapists were all white?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/cologne-police-ordered-to-remove-word-rape-from-reports-into-new-year-s-eve-sexual-assaults-a6972471.html

lemme just leave this here....
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/cologne-attacks-american-woman-tells-how-syrian-refugees-rescued-her-from-new-years-eve-sexual-a6816221.html

and also a cover up of sexual assaults (no matter the race or religion of the perpetrator is nothing new)

Reply 49

The Roast

Original post by Sophiegraceb

lemme just leave this here....
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/cologne-attacks-american-woman-tells-how-syrian-refugees-rescued-her-from-new-years-eve-sexual-a6816221.html

and also a cover up of sexual assaults (no matter the race or religion of the perpetrator is nothing new)

These aren't just your common sexual assaults, these are assaults on massive scale.

We're talking about migrants here, not refugees.

Reply 50

Original post by Observatory

Again you are trying to have it both ways. Either they want to live in homely communities with other $home_country people, in which case the UK has no special pull and they will probably want to stay in their parallel societies in Germany, or they want to integrate with the world and get ahead in their careers, in which case waiting around 5 years to come to the UK doesn't look like the best deal when Germany is richer and has lower unemployment and it is right there..

They want to do both: make money and still keep touch with people of their culture, which they can do in the UK like in Germany.

Original post by Observatory

Far more people will have schoolboy English. Very few people will have lived, studied, and worked in an English speaking country for 5 years. And do we really want to turn away those who have? Aren't they likely to be pretty good quality people?

Once again, these people are not working nor "living" in Germany in the usual sense of the word as they are surrounded by people of the same culture and living off the state.

And you don't need to live in an English speaking country to learn English. You can learn a lot from the Internet, media, video games, popular culture, etc.

Original post by Observatory

Right and how much of Sweden's (in my opinion very ill-advised) immigration influx has ended up in Britain?

I don't know if there has been a study on the subject, but many move to the UK because it's easier to get a job.

Original post by Observatory

Sex attacks did not occur on a mass scale. Nor were they particularly severe sex attacks.

1000 women in a night is not a mass scale?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/cologne-attacks-what-happened-after-1000-women-were-sexually-assaulted-a6867071.html

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 51

username951826

15

Original post by caravaggio2

Sorry dtin, fixed that for you. :smile:

Good work on finding the other ones. I knew it wasn't only happening in the North of England. Even in my hometown there was a case of something similar happening. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol_sex_gang.

I'm not sure all these cases happened for the same reasons. I mean if you look at Birmingham, I study there so I know the population is very diverse, so you're going to have a lot of crime committed by minorities anyway.

Reply 52

MagicNMedicine

It's amazing how Farage and right wingers have suddenly discovered a great concern for issues like women's safety, the NHS, low pay, the housing crisis.

If Britain leaves the EU, will they still champion these issues or will they forget all about them and revert to telling us that feminism has gone too far, the NHS should be privatised, raising the minimum wage will cause unemployment so we need lower wages, young people aren't entitled to a house etc

Reply 53

Observatory

Original post by plstudent

They want to do both: make money and still keep touch with people of their culture, which they can do in the UK like in Germany.

Once again, these people are not working nor "living" in Germany in the usual sense of the word as they are surrounded by people of the same culture and living off the state.

And you don't need to live in an English speaking country to learn English. You can learn a lot from the Internet, media, video games, popular culture, etc.

Why do you think it is better to live off the state in the UK than Germany? Taxes are higher and rents lower in Germany.

I don't know if there has been a study on the subject, but many move to the UK because it's easier to get a job.

If it happens, it's clearly not noticeable.

1000 women in a night s not a mass scale?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/cologne-attacks-wha
t-happened-after-1000-women-were-sexually-assaulted-a6867071.html

Not compared to the incidence of this sort of attack (most of them were things like groping) aggregated over the whole country on a typical Saturday night. What was shocking was that it was concentrated.

(edited 7 years ago)

Original post by Observatory

Why do you think it is better to live off the state in the UK than Germany? Taxes are higher and rents lower in Germany.

You keep comparing to Germany... Germany is only 1 country. The UK has 2 big pull factors 1)an easy and widely spoken language 2) a strong economy. Those two can attract a lot of people from Germany and the rest of Europe. It can be a trade that is not possible to do in Germany, a connection, the language, there are a lot of possible reasons even with an equal economy.

Original post by Observatory

f it happens, it's clearly not noticeable

With the levels of migration increasing both in Sweden and the rest of Europe, it won't become less noticeable.

Original post by Observatory

Not compared to the incidence of this sort of attack (most of them were things like groping) aggregated over the whole country on a typical Saturday night. What was shocking was that it was concentrated.

You say concentrated now, so we agree it is not mainly the fact that the police appeared not to have control over the situation?

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 56

username951826

15

Considering violent crime in the UK has been plummeting since the mid 1990s and again been declining since the early to mid 00s I don't know how effective it will be to just say 'kick the undesirables out and most crimes will go down'. It's the Tory government that's at fault as they were the ones slashing the police force.

Reply 57

Observatory

Original post by plstudent

You keep comparing to Germany... Germany is only 1 country.

That houses more than half of all the migrants. Austria and Sweden aren't slouches economically or in terms of state handouts either.

The UK has 2 big pull factors 1)an easy and widely spoken language 2) a strong economy. Those two can attract a lot of people from Germany and the rest of Europe. It can be a trade that is not possible to do in Germany, a connection, the language, there are a lot of possible reasons even with an equal economy.

I don't doubt it will happen I doubt that a large proportion of those who are already there will go. I doubt people will go primarily to collect welfare.

With the leves of migration increasing both in Sweden and the rest of Europe, it won't become less noticeable.
You say concentrated now, so we agree it is not mainly the fact that the police appeared not to have control over the situation?

The two things are related. If these crimes had somehow occurred despite the police being in control... wait, how could have have occurred?

Reply 58

Marco1

15

Of course its on the cards. Merkel and Juncker don't care two hoots about white women either. It's not good they think but it's part of the price to pay for achieving their sick dystopian goal. Merkel made sure Cologne police were 'prohibited' to use the word 'rape' when writing up the multiple reports from women that they were not only molested by hands and fingers, but raped and beaten. If we stay in the EU it's a fact that white women will be more and more marginalised - sacrificed to rapist filth with a view towards women that is diametricly opposed to ours. I laughed when the person above wrote about just needing to be re-educated. That doesn't work. Rapists in Swedish migrant centres have raped after their 'cultural education'. They will hate you more for trying as it offends their strong cultural and religious identity.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 59