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    (Original post by shishi nee)
    life is a test and though one may be suffering excruciate pain and in an agony way beyond our imaginations, muslims believe that this is all part of a test of will and courage -
    (Original post by shishi nee)
    God is not some sadist who derives pleasure from other peoples pain.
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    well done - you can juxtapose!
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    sorry - i know a bit nasty......
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    Abortion laws get abused, euthanasia laws get abused, they all do...

    Shall we illegalise abortion on the same grounds of not legalising euthanasia?
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    (Original post by NDGAARONDI)
    Abortion laws get abused, euthanasia laws get abused, they all do...

    Shall we illegalise abortion on the same grounds of not legalising euthanasia?
    Yes - great idea!
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    (Original post by shishi nee)
    well done - you can juxtapose!
    ...and you contradict yourself. A being which inflicts excruciating pain or an agony beyond our imagination on another as a test of will and courage is a sadist by any definition.
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    God is not a being! How dare you! :eek: You are just going straight to hell mate
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    (Original post by miss_piddles)
    God is not a being!
    Does "non-being" suit you better as a term?
    You are just going straight to hell mate
    ...if you are right in your prognosis for my future, it proves my point.
    Do I pass "GO"? Do I collect £200?
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    (Original post by Weejimmie)
    ...if you are right in your prognosis for my future, it proves my point.
    Do I pass "GO"? Do I collect £200?
    nooo..you go straight there. It's just past Old Kent Road. (yeah the cheap brown ones)
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    (Original post by miss_piddles)
    nooo..you go straight there. It's just past Old Kent Road. (yeah the cheap brown ones)
    Well the beer's better anyway.
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    (Original post by Weejimmie)
    Well the beer's better anyway.
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    Interesting topic... I have the opinion that life is rather too important to let someone throw it away on the basis of some mental illness which makes them convinced life is no longer worth living.

    On the other hand I am not totally against the idea of allowing someone to die if they are in a lot of pain (assuming that we cannot up a morphine dose for fear of killing them anyway), "certain" (in as much as we can be) to die, etc.

    I feel that the best way forward is to only allow medical practitioners to carry out the proceedure after having several medical opinions taken. Under these circumstances I wouldn't change the law on homicide directly, merely change the law on suicide and give authority to a family member or someone in a position to act in locum parentis to authorise the patient's wishes should they not be in a position to do so themselves.
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    (Original post by polthegael)
    Interesting topic... I have the opinion that life is rather too important to let someone throw it away on the basis of some mental illness which makes them convinced life is no longer worth living.
    There is the opposite view: people whose deaths would be a mercy for everyone else. Wasn't there a British offiicer who said of MacDonagh and co that they'd got rid of half a dozen third-rate poets and the Irish people ought to be grateful?
    He underestimated the poetic taste of the plain people of Ireland, unfortunately.
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    I think yes, it should be legalised. Well on one hand i feel that it would help those people who are terminally ill, who cannot live much of a life and cannot do anything for themselves.. These kind of lives must be terribly deppressing, and knowing that they could never recover and see children/grandchildren grow up etc must be heart breaking. Under these circumstances i think that it is acceptable. Passive Euthanasia may be seen as "murder or manslaughter", however people might see it , but you have to remember that the people who are assisting these events will be under so many emotions.. guilt, upset, angry, relief etc. It is not easy for them either, they just wish to see their loved ones without pain.
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    (Original post by Weejimmie)
    There is the opposite view: people whose deaths would be a mercy for everyone else. Wasn't there a British offiicer who said of MacDonagh and co that they'd got rid of half a dozen third-rate poets and the Irish people ought to be grateful?
    He underestimated the poetic taste of the plain people of Ireland, unfortunately.
    Hmmm... (let's not even mention that several of the 1916 leaders were ex-British soldiers themselves, even Mac Piarais had been a unionist at one stage) Sadistic people can find anything nasty to say. For example, do you doubt the white Security Forces in South Africa had occassion to say "jolly good show old chap, that's one less ****** in the world"?

    Pearse, Plunkett, MacDonagh, etc. - they were all reasonable poets. If we judge poetry by content and meaning as well as form and elegance, these men could all match Yeats anyday, in my opinion (and yes, I can recite poetry by Yeats off by heart, as well as by Pearse and am au fait with the others... i.e. I'm not just saying this to make a point).

    Have you read any Pearse? Some of his stories can make you feel like you want to cry, and look at the quality of his plays (e.g. the Singer). In poetry like "Mise Eire" he succintly paints out the glory and shame of the Irish nation. In "Fornocht do chonnac thu" he explains his outlook and self-discipline and I doubt anyone has ever written a more beautiful poem in the English language than "The Wayfarer".

    Maybe like me executing Charles Darwin and saying "a third rate satanic scientist, the English will thank me for this one!"... (or Shakespeare, but then schoolchildren across the English speaking world really would thank me! )
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    Morally I have no problem with euthanasia - in fact there is a very good chance that at some point in the future I will end my partners life for him if he wants me to.

    Legally I think it should stay illegal until we live in a society that treats it's elderly, disabled and vulnerable members with respect and dignity.

    http://www.rednoseday.com/aboutthemo...derabuse.shtml 1 in 10 old people suffer abuse in the UK...legalising euthanasia will increase the pressures put on vulnerable people to stop "being such a burden".
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    (Original post by polthegael)
    Hmmm... (let's not even mention that several of the 1916 leaders were ex-British soldiers themselves, even Mac Piarais had been a unionist at one stage) Sadistic people can find anything nasty to say. For example, do you doubt the white Security Forces in South Africa had occassion to say "jolly good show old chap, that's one less ****** in the world"?
    Writing poetry, like politics and religion, are a matter of personal choice. You take the consequences of your acts. I think it admirable practical criticism in the tradition of Cinna. It is a pity that the practise is not more widespread.

    Pearse, Plunkett, MacDonagh, etc. - they were all reasonable poets. If we judge poetry by content and meaning as well as form and elegance, these men could all match Yeats anyday, in my opinion (and yes, I can recite poetry by Yeats off by heart, as well as by Pearse and am au fait with the others... i.e. I'm not just saying this to make a point).
    Anyone who judged Yeats on content or meaning would give up on him at once.

    Have you read any Pearse? Some of his stories can make you feel like you want to cry, and look at the quality of his plays (e.g. the Singer). In poetry like "Mise Eire" he succintly paints out the glory and shame of the Irish nation. In "Fornocht do chonnac thu" he explains his outlook and self-discipline and I doubt anyone has ever written a more beautiful poem in the English language than "The Wayfarer".
    i had to read and recite the old ******* as a child. Pearse makes Macgonagal look talented.

    Maybe like me executing Charles Darwin and saying "a third rate satanic scientist, the English will thank me for this one!"... (or Shakespeare, but then schoolchildren across the English speaking world really would thank me! )
    You can get rid of scientists and it makes very little odds- someone else will do the job. A poet is unique. If Yeats or Blake had never existed no-one else would have written what they wrote. A poet is someone who is unconcerned with truth if it sounds good. If they persuade other people as a result they must take the consequences.
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    (Original post by Weejimmie)
    i had to read and recite the old ******* as a child. Pearse makes Macgonagal look talented.
    If you want to come off with a comment like that... Go and look up what age Pearse was when he was executed. Hardly "old", you must agree...

    His parents were highly unlikely to have fathered any ******* children (I have read Patrick Pearsevolution of a Republican and a few shorter texts on him, and I feel your criticism is utterly unfounded).

    I will search on the internet for "The Wayfarer" and start up a thread asking if it is good poetry or not...
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    (Original post by polthegael)
    I will search on the internet for "The Wayfarer" and start up a thread asking if it is good poetry or not...
    Sorry, WeeJimmie, but I cannot start a thread with such a large post...

    Here it is: (do any of you think it's good?)

    "The beauty of the world hath made me sad,
    This beauty that will pass;
    Sometimes my heart hath shaken with great joy
    To see a leaping squirrel in a tree
    Or a red lady-bird upon a stalk,
    Or little rabbits in a field at evening,
    Lit by a slanting sun,
    Or some green hill where shadows drifted by
    Some quiet hill where mountainy man hath sown
    And soon would reap; near to the gate of Heaven;
    Or children with bare feet upon the sands
    Of some ebbed sea, or playing on the streets
    Of little towns in Connacht,
    Things young and happy.
    And then my heart hath told me:
    These will pass,
    Will pass and change, will die and be no more,
    Things bright and green, things young and happy;
    And I have gone upon my way
    Sorrowful." (Padraig Aonraoi Mac Piarais, on the eve of his execution)
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    (Original post by polthegael)
    Sorry, WeeJimmie, but I cannot start a thread with such a large post...

    Here it is: (do any of you think it's good?)

    "The beauty of the world hath made me sad,
    This beauty that will pass;
    Sometimes my heart hath shaken with great joy
    To see a leaping squirrel in a tree
    Or a red lady-bird upon a stalk,
    Or little rabbits in a field at evening,
    Lit by a slanting sun,
    Or some green hill where shadows drifted by
    Some quiet hill where mountainy man hath sown
    And soon would reap; near to the gate of Heaven;
    Or children with bare feet upon the sands
    Of some ebbed sea, or playing on the streets
    Of little towns in Connacht,
    Things young and happy.
    And then my heart hath told me:
    These will pass,
    Will pass and change, will die and be no more,
    Things bright and green, things young and happy;
    And I have gone upon my way
    Sorrowful." (Padraig Aonraoi Mac Piarais, on the eve of his execution)

    That is so evocative, painful and beautiful. Truly a poet, who expresses all that was his life, before his death.

    Thank you.
 
 
 
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