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    (Original post by JordanL_)
    Remember, you'll be grateful when your above 40 to be considered young.

    (And we kinda have an arch-nemesis relationship on TSR on the position of EU membership, so I don't expect too much off you / I don't think the most highly of you. )
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    Like my avatar ?
    yep the chinese panda
    i want a quarter set in a ring
    but they are so hard to get over here
    i might ask my uncle as his girlfriend is from china and is a millionaire so i'll see if i can get one that way
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    (Original post by XcitingStuart)
    Remember, you'll be grateful when your above 40 to be considered young.

    (And we kinda have an arch-nemesis relationship on TSR on the position of EU membership, so I don't expect too much off you / I don't think the most highly of you. )
    I don't think I've ever had an arch-nemesis before I don't think the most highly of you either :hugs:
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    A lack of housing is primarily due to successive governments not building any and forcing councils and housing associations to sell their stock off.
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    (Original post by XcitingStuart)
    You criticise this new love people have for the EU, yet you suddenly flip to the other side? Weird post mate.

    And what happened to that old adage, "keep your friends close, but your enemies closer"?

    Why do you trust our government less than the EU?

    (oh, and btw, by saying "sovereign authority" you say you trust the EU more than the British people, as we are a lot more democratic.)
    I never criticised people's love for the EU, are you reading the same post?

    Because at the end of the day, the more people, opinions and expertise involved in a decision the better it is. It's like saying that if a murder occurs that it should be up to the neighbourhood involved to sort it out. No, we involve the judicial system of the country with a judge and jury, who can look at all sides of the argument and make a judgement on it.
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    (Original post by jamesthehustler)
    yep the chinese panda
    i want a quarter set in a ring
    but they are so hard to get over here
    i might ask my uncle as his girlfriend is from china and is a millionaire so i'll see if i can get one that way
    I have my avatar (2013) one in 1/4oz in capsule

    I have this years quarter although its not longer 1/4oz but 8g. China decided to change their system

    They are very popular in Germany.. i can PM you one or two very good German dealers I have used before should you wish to peruse
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    I have my avatar (2013) one in 1/4oz in capsule

    I have this years quarter although its not longer 1/4oz but 8g. China decided to change their system

    They are very popular in Germany.. i can PM you one or two very good German dealers I have used before should you wish to peruse
    that would be great as i actually looked at a sovereign but they have a bit of an issue in that thye a rather common and are popular with the chavs the panda is the same size as a full sovereign but are more of a conversation point and a rarity
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    If we stay or go we are ****edGermany and france has said they will punish us because of this referendum.If we stay our living standards will continue to decrease, the NHS and schools will be under more pressure, normal people will struggle to get on the housing ladder.If we go our economy will be ****ed.
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    (Original post by richard10012)
    I will never be able to afford a house. With unlimited immigration no country can plan their infrastructure to cope as they do not know how many people will be living in their country. We will have to constantly build new homes, schools and hospitals to cope. UK Is only a small country.
    I think you need to realise that these problems have causes other than the EU. With immigration, for example, the gross immigration figure for 2015 from the Office for National Statistics is that there were 632,000 immigrants in that year. Of these 270,000 were estimated to be EU citizens.

    http://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulati...tion-to-the-uk

    The obvious implication from this is that 362,000 immigrants came from outside the EU. That is over 57% of immigrants came from outside the EU, in a way that the Brexiteers claim is "controllable".

    The point you make about housing costs is well understood - house prices are far too high. I am lucky to have a flat in central London - I am in no doubt that today I could not afford to buy it, whereas when I bought it it was fairly easily within reach. It's not because I am earning much less now than when I bought the flat, but that prices have accelerated much faster than salaries.

    The main issue however is not the EU, nor immigration from the EU. The primary underlying cause is that prices have been driven-up by a whole generation of buy-to-let landlords who have been incentivised by government policy and low interest rates to put their capital into property. These people effectively have an advantage against owner-occupiers because they can offset all their costs against their profits (ie they pay tax after they account for their costs) where owner occupiers have to pay tax on their incomes before they pay their mortgages. This gives landlords 30-50% more buying power than an owner occupier.

    In addition to this issue, for both sets of buyers, low interest rates make property much more affordable, in terms of mortgage repayments. As an example, a £100,000 mortgage over 25 years at 15% (if you think this is unrealistic go an take a look at interest rates in the early 90s) would cost around £1,290 a month. At 5% (an average rate today) it would only cost around £590. Effectively someone on a 5% mortgage can borrow close to £220,000 to be repaying the same monthly amount as someone borrowing £100,000 at 15%.

    A further problem is that the government has not taken any real steps to prevent speculation by overseas investors, who, particularly in London, have been buying up properties and allegedly leaving them empty. Again, this is nothing to do with the EU, as these investors are coming from Russia and South East Asia.

    You make points about infrastructure. I think the real issue here, well made by Harriet Harman on Newsnight, is that the problems stem from government policy and budgetary decisions, and long term neglect in certain areas.

    This affects housing, because the Conservative government of Margaret Thatcher decided to give people the right to buy their council homes. The current government is trying to expand that to include the property of housing associations. This has taken a great deal of social housing out of the letting market, much of it has ended up in the hands of buy-to-let landlords. Despite knowing that a housing problem has been looming for more than a decade (ie before the EU expanded membership with the Eastern European 10 in 2004) the government has done nothing about this.

    With other infrastructure, there is ongoing neglect or lack of investment. Within about a mile of where I live there are at least six, and perhaps as many as ten, former state school buildings that are now private apartments, have been completely redeveloped, or are private/fee-paying/independent schools (and I don't mean academies).

    The same is true of the NHS - which has been under-funded for at least five years. The NHS is in deficit, according to this article to the tune of £2.3 billion in the first nine months of 2015:

    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2...s-rising-costs

    That's £2.3bn they spent which they did not have. This is a result of government cuts and long-term poor planning.

    This is true of all infrastructure issues - government inaction. With the resulting blame placed upon migrants, and ultimately the EU by power-hungry egomaniacs (ie Brexiteer politicians). A significant problem with this scenario is that many of these politicians were those who took part in government making the decisions that ultimately led to this shambles.

    What you are really reacting to is Tory-led austerity. Which the Tory IN camp are too embarrassed to talk about, Labour IN camp are not shouting loudly enough about (because they want to retain some semblance of unity with the Tory In camp) and the Tory Brexiteers want to gloss over and blame on the EU.
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    (Original post by Arran90)
    If the EU was so great then why does it allow its member states to impose austerity like the Conservatives have done? The fact is, the EU doesn't give a damn to the common folk in the street. All it cares about is big business and bloated bureaucracy that only benefits the gravy train.
    I have not seen a better reason to vote Remain than this post right here :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by illegaltobepoor)
    I received a leaflet today trying to convince me to use my vote to stay within the EU. Guess who was backing it? Mark Carney Bank of England Chairman. A Keynesian useful idiot.

    No one on TSR apart from me has mentioned that the EU is doing the same amount of money printing as Japan and the USA. This is an attempt to prop up the global economy before a huge crash.

    I warned people that the central banks are up to no good and yet no one is talking about the fact that Gold & Silver has risen while all stocks across the board have been declining.

    If we remain in the EU the UK will be the EU's big piggy bank. We will be bailing out the EU mean while all public services will be privatized with the trans pacific partnership on the side lines and to top it off there will be huge tax increases.

    Conservatives / Labour ......... It doesn't matter.

    Central Bankers are causing a mess around the whole world and if your using a 4 horsemen currency USD, YEN, EURO or POUND your going to feel the hurt either way.

    But ............. If we leave the EU we can minimize the fall out.

    2nd step is to get that Canadian idiot out of the Bank of England so we can stop him increasing the size of the balance sheet.

    3rd step is to remove the ability to print money from our retail banks.

    And maybe just maybe Britains economy won't implode.

    If you vote remain in the EU your be united in poverty with the rest of Europe.
    Why are you lying?

    https://www.bullionbypost.co.uk/gold...ar/ounces/GBP/

    Gold price -1.9% over three years...it has only gone starkly up since beginning 2016.

    Stocks have all gone down? Personally I bought some end of February and my portfolio has already gone up over 8%...
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    (Original post by inhuman)
    Why are you lying?

    https://www.bullionbypost.co.uk/gold...ar/ounces/GBP/

    Gold price -1.9% over three years...it has only gone starkly up since beginning 2016.

    Stocks have all gone down? Personally I bought some end of February and my portfolio has already gone up over 8%...
    A £100 rise since the start of 2016 is a pretty big rise
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    (Original post by EuanF)
    A £100 rise since the start of 2016 is a pretty big rise
    And I said as much.

    I simply pointed out that over a 3-year horizon it has actually gone down.
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    (Original post by IFoundWonderland)
    ...The UK's is below this number, which means that a diminishing working population will be supporting a growing ageing population. 1) We as a country rely on migrants to maintain our workforce and therefore our economy. Regardless, if we enter the European Economic Zone, free movement will still be possible and thus we will still receive EU migrants. 2) Alternatively, the government will seek to locate its migramts from elsewhere, which will likely be the Commonwealth - ie Pakistan and India.

    1) We also have high unemployment rates.
    2) Not sure if you noticed this has happened for a while now!

    [size=2][font=Verdana]
    3) The UK does not make anything. Yes we have steelworks and North Sea oil, but it isn't an overly significant source of trade. Our money is largely generated through currency exchanges and the like in London, which is arguably the financial hub of the world. The banks will all up and leave to Frankfurt and we'll lose our country's main source of income.

    3) We might not manufacture as much as in the past (great leadership!!)
    http://realbusiness.co.uk/article/26...-10-uk-exports - things we do export.. and this does not include Legal Services ie we have some of the best Barristers and Solicitors in the world.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_...United_Kingdom

    4) We need easy imports because we don't manufacture anything for ourselves.
    4) Due to the way this country has been run in accordance with EU laws ie NMW increasing the cost to produce these items here.

    5) The last time countries reverted to isolationism was pre-WW2. Imposed tariffs etc as seen in the USA in the 1930s led to worldwide Depression. As Ferguson argued in Civilisation, time and time again, people fail to learn from history (this was written before the 2016 referendum was even a star waiting to be born).

    At this time, when we're fighting a war against terror and we see what's happening in the Middle East, I fail to understand why people think isolationism is constructive. We need to cooperate together; not move further apart.

    5) We are not fighting a war on terror.. the media says we are and this scares many people but in reality, we are not. if we were fighting a war on terror, it is because we are meddling in the Middle East illegally. Bombing a Muslim country when we have no right to! We went to war with Iraq for a false reason! We invaded Afghanistan for NO REASON! We do not need to be involved and then we would not have this so called threat.. hearsay information that we see on the news. False flag events that we see on the news!
    Overall it is all a load of rubbish to keep people in fear and to feel safe we need the mighty EU! RUBBISHHHH
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    1) We also have high unemployment rates.
    2) Not sure if you noticed this has happened for a while now!
    Of 5.1%?
    And this is the immigration that people appear to dislike the most - it will only increase.


    3) We might not manufacture as much as in the past (great leadership!!)
    http://realbusiness.co.uk/article/26...-10-uk-exports- things we do export.. and this does not include Legal Services ie we have some of the best Barristers and Solicitors in the world.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_...United_Kingdom
    What's your point?

    4) Due to the way this country has been run in accordance with EU laws ie NMW increasing the cost to produce these items here.
    And the issue will be solved by leaving the EU? Are you offended by the National Minimum Wage?

    5) We are not fighting a war on terror.. the media says we are and this scares many people but in reality, we are not. if we were fighting a war on terror, it is because we are meddling in the Middle East illegally. Bombing a Muslim country when we have no right to! We went to war with Iraq for a false reason! We invaded Afghanistan for NO REASON! We do not need to be involved and then we would not have this so called threat.. hearsay information that we see on the news. False flag events that we see on the news!
    You totally failed to respond to anything I said regarding isolationism and the chance of depression. We are involved in a War on Terror and our reasons for invading the Middle East is irrelvant to this fact. It might have been started trivially, but the fact is that it's the case.
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    (Original post by Natalierm2707)
    I want cameron out, cant think of many positive things he has done as PM so far, and i feel he takes a backseat to his benchers anyway, its not as if he has any real authority over the tories now.

    As for your comments:

    1) yes our population growth is currently under the regular replenishment fertility rate, but thats a lot to do with our ageing population, and population cycling means this is likely to change eventually. Migrants do add positively to this rate which is great, but we cannot rely on migrants for this as there are just to few of them, policies need implementing but right now i dont see this as a major issue compared with other things.
    We could easily survive without migrants, but the way the british workforce is built nowadays means a lot of people sat on the dole think the jobs the migrants seem to take are below them. Hence migrants are a huge positive asset to our trade and economy.
    My issue is the fact that it is likely they will drive down the minimum wage which is not something our country needs right now!
    If we leave our borders will work on a points system like Australia, this could generate issues a) recruiting skilled migrants means they will be in direct competition for our skilled jobs in the uk, and then they would be putting UK citizens out of work. b) this could impact detrimentally at the bottom of the working chain where jobs filled by EU migrants no longer are filled and primary/secondary industry is likely to suffer.

    The one thing i disagree with here is trade and isolation. Non EU countries such as Norway have great trade deals and are still united in the fight against terror with Europe, they also still have a large number of non home citizens (larger than the UK) living there from the EU. My point is its 100% possible to live without the strict government of the EU and it may be positive for Britain to do this, as we will gain more control. Lets face it were not exactly a "typical" EU country and the EU would be at a great loss without us (people wonder why we stuck a deal with them). Look at our NHS, our beloved healthcare system is currently under huge strain and leaving the EU may allow us to focus more spending and more time into UK only issues such as the NHS rather than bailing out other countries because of the union or paying fees etc.
    Britain will always be above the EU in my opinion, it is now as a member, its just deciding whether the benefits of leaving outweigh the huge risks for the future. One thing is for sure, brits are run down and bored of the same old speil from the elected, and we need to start seriously considering this proposition as it will change our whole future if we vote leave, but dont just cote stay because its the safe option, very very few advancements occur because people play it "safe", sometimes a risk is what is needed? Im
    Still torn!


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    So you are saying now it's not ok to allow skilled people into the UK but it's fine to have this open border policy where any low skilled EU citizen could come here and further drag down wages for working class people. Personally I would like to see a points based system like Australia, so skilled people from places like Australia, Canada and USA can come here and compete easily for skilled jobs. The jobs which are already filled by EU citizens are not paid well anyway and when the borders are closed we will see an increase in wages as a result.
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    (Original post by _icecream)
    So you are saying now it's not ok to allow skilled people into the UK but it's fine to have this open border policy where any low skilled EU citizen could come here and further drag down wages for working class people. Personally I would like to see a points based system like Australia, so skilled people from places like Australia, Canada and USA can come here and compete easily for skilled jobs. The jobs which are already filled by EU citizens are not paid well anyway and when the borders are closed we will see an increase in wages as a result.
    no no thats not what I am saying, but that is the arguement I have heard from remain supporters, either way there is a pro and a con!
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    (Original post by inhuman)
    Why are you lying?

    https://www.bullionbypost.co.uk/gold...ar/ounces/GBP/

    Gold price -1.9% over three years...it has only gone starkly up since beginning 2016.

    Stocks have all gone down? Personally I bought some end of February and my portfolio has already gone up over 8%...
    Gold goes down when Quantitative Easing goes up and the position on interest rates becomes clear in relation to going up with a possible recovery spreaded in the media.

    Janet Yellen Fed chairman basically got caught out in December when she was on about how she could increase interest rates but when push came to shove she could only increase by 0.5% and now she is struggling to increase rates even further.

    Basically the economic models of Peter Schiff and Mike Maloney are coming true.

    The FTSE100 has declined since April 2015 and so has the Dow Jones.

    Only reason the FTSE100 has started hiking is because of the possibility of a vote to leave the EU.

    These aren't lies and people who are economically literate can go and check for themselves without a REMAIN puppet to tell them otherwise.
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    (Original post by inhuman)
    Why are you lying?

    https://www.bullionbypost.co.uk/gold...ar/ounces/GBP/

    Gold price -1.9% over three years...it has only gone starkly up since beginning 2016.

    Stocks have all gone down? Personally I bought some end of February and my portfolio has already gone up over 8%...
    oh look whats this ?

    This is the american economy but if they go down we do as well because 30% of GDP is created though financial industry.

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    "Basically the economic models of Peter Schiff and Mike Maloney are coming true."

    Lol'd.

    You are like the equivalent of a conspiracy theorist.
 
 
 
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