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    (Original post by JamesN88)
    Yeah in hindsight it's very much a debate over who was the least tyrannical.

    I'm ambivalent to the idea of a Cromwell day, never really thought about it tbh
    Ye, makes for a very interesting discussion though

    I am against a Cromwell day really, like others have said there are far more worthy people who have earned that right. What about a duke wellington day? or a British empire day? or king henry viii wife chopping day? :P
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    (Original post by mrITguy)
    Ye, makes for a very interesting discussion though

    I am against a Cromwell day really, like others have said there are far more worthy people who have earned that right. What about a duke wellington day? or a British empire day? or king henry viii wife chopping day? :P
    The real question is would Cromwell vote out or in?

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    Please... for the love of god nobody start that one.:rolleyes:
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    (Original post by JamesN88)
    The real question is would Cromwell vote out or in?
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    Please... for the love of god nobody start that one.:rolleyes:
    Ask america, since they are essentially his offspring

    Ooops, did I start something? Don't know how to use a spoiler button
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    (Original post by Cato the Elder)
    Why can't we have a Cromwell Day taking place on 3rd September, the day of that great man Oliver Cromwell's death,
    The same reason we can't have New Year's Day on 1st January and St George's Day on April 23rd.

    What are you going on about?

    There is a Cromwell Day on 3rd September

    http://www.olivercromwell.org/cromwell_day_2015.htm
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    (Original post by mrITguy)
    Ye, makes for a very interesting discussion though

    I am against a Cromwell day really, like others have said there are far more worthy people who have earned that right. What about a duke wellington day? or a British empire day? or king henry viii wife chopping day? :P
    The ignorance on this forum is amazing. Empire Day is May 24th; Waterloo Day is June 18th.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    The same reason we can't have New Year's Day on 1st January and St George's Day on April 23rd.

    What are you going on about?

    There is a Cromwell Day on 3rd September

    http://www.olivercromwell.org/cromwell_day_2015.htm
    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    The ignorance on this forum is amazing. Empire Day is May 24th; Waterloo Day is June 18th.
    But its not official (they are not national days) as we don't get a day off from work and can't get drunk
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    (Original post by Cato the Elder)
    Why can't we have a Cromwell Day taking place on 3rd September, the day of that great man Oliver Cromwell's death, and the anniversary of his God-given victories over the barbarous Scottish Presbyterian pigs at Dunbar and over the royalist heathens at Worcester? It would at least give us a day to celebrate one of our national heroes, something the leftists want to stop us doing.

    Alternatively, it could be placed on 25th April, two days after St George's Day, the day of his birth, but for fear that they might clash, 3rd September is probably the safer course.

    I think a far greater hero to celebrate would be George Monck for how he resolved the decades long search for settlement and actually succeeding in bringing some longevity to civilian government which wasn't seen so much under Cromwell who often resorted to his de-facto military power to rule when the elected Parliament's didn't reflect his opinion. I also think the way he utilised the terms of the Humble Petition and Advice and modified it to enhance his powers, quite fittingly gives him the epithet 'King in all but name' - he had essentially toppled one absolutist ruler and slowly gained the appearance of another. Still think we should recognise his key nature in bringing down tyrannical monarchy and redefining the discourse of power between monarchy and parliament.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    The same reason we can't have New Year's Day on 1st January and St George's Day on April 23rd.

    What are you going on about?

    There is a Cromwell Day on 3rd September

    http://www.olivercromwell.org/cromwell_day_2015.htm
    He obviously means an officially recognised Cromwell Day. You're right in saying anyone can stage any themed day on any day of their choosing.

    I'll admit despite possessing a moderate level of interest in the time period I wasn't familiar with The Cromwell Association.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    The ignorance on this forum isamazing. Empire Day is May 24th; Waterloo Day is June 18th.
    It was.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_Day#History
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    Aside from anything one might object to about Cromwell's actions and policies, there is a very simple reason why we do not venerate him: there was a successful restoration after him. While the monarchy soon ceded a large part of its power to Parliament anyway, the constitutional system that remains in place is the monarchical one that Cromwell rebelled against and which eventually put paid to his time in power. So we are scarcely going to celebrate him, instead we celebrate things like Guy Fawkes Night. No doubt if the Parliamentarians had won we would today be celebrating Off With His Head Night.
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    (Original post by mrITguy)
    But its not official (they are not national days) as we don't get a day off from work and can't get drunk
    Of course you can get drunk.

    We don't get a bank holiday for the present Queen's birthday.

    Did you wear oak leaves in your hair for Royal Oak Day (commonly called Oak Apple Day)?



    What about attending the Commemoration for Charles, King and Martyr

    http://www.ecws.org.uk/31st-january-...f-charles-ist/
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    It still is (albeit this parade has been moved to the Sunday)

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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    Of course you can get drunk.

    We don't get a bank holiday for the present Queen's birthday.

    Did you wear oak leaves in your hair for Royal Oak Day (commonly called Oak Apple Day)?



    What about attending the Commemoration for Charles, King and Martyr

    http://www.ecws.org.uk/31st-january-...f-charles-ist/
    Oh lol, well us English don't celebrate these (at least I don't). But Auzzie's on the other hand do celebrate the queens birthday!!!!

    Think us english need someone high (PM) to tell us we can get drunk and have a day off so we don't feel guilty :P
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    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    Aside from anything one might object to about Cromwell's actions and policies, there is a very simple reason why we do not venerate him: there was a successful restoration after him. While the monarchy soon ceded a large part of its power to Parliament anyway, the constitutional system that remains in place is the monarchical one that Cromwell rebelled against and which eventually put paid to his time in power. So we are scarcely going to celebrate him, instead we celebrate things like Guy Fawkes Night. No doubt if the Parliamentarians had won we would today be celebrating Off With His Head Night.
    Guy Fawkes, the first terrorist? :P if only he had succeeded...........just think we wouldn't have this government in power now

    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    It still is (albeit this parade has been moved to the Sunday)

    Didn't know this :O well its not official as I don't see a parade in my street!!
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    It still is (albeit this parade has been moved to the Sunday)

    Anything to wind up the neighbours.
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    (Original post by Salsa123)
    I think a far greater hero to celebrate would be George Monck for how he resolved the decades long search for settlement and actually succeeding in bringing some longevity to civilian government which wasn't seen so much under Cromwell who often resorted to his de-facto military power to rule when the elected Parliament's didn't reflect his opinion. I also think the way he utilised the terms of the Humble Petition and Advice and modified it to enhance his powers, quite fittingly gives him the epithet 'King in all but name' - he had essentially toppled one absolutist ruler and slowly gained the appearance of another. Still think we should recognise his key nature in bringing down tyrannical monarchy and redefining the discourse of power between monarchy and parliament.
    We will recognise him later today when the regiment that has no royal colonel but bears the name of the village where Monck crossed into England on his march to London to declare for a free Parliament, troops its colour.
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    The word "treason" springs to mind...

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    (Original post by FredOrJohn)
    I think that would be as popular in Scotland as a lead balloon - perhaps that was the point (it was a mini-genocide)
    Speaking as someone from Scotland, I doubt 99% of Scots could tell you what the Battle of Dunbar was.

    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    I can think of many reasons why we shouldn't have a Cromwell day but that is the stupidest reason.

    Wrong side of history and all that. Queen can bite my shiny metal ass.
    It was an entirely factual statement. He committed the offence of treason, under laws that are still in effect today.

    (Original post by Lujubi)
    Apart from the fact that Cromwell ruled like a dictator (Lord Protectorate was his actual title), his takeover was the first step towards a constitutional monarchy and challenging the view of divine right.
    He fought against the idea of Divine right of Kings, but his own dictatorial theocracy, which he claimed was inspired by God - but in fact was nothing more than his own perverse interpretation of scripture - was hardly better.

    His contribution to constitutional monarchy was more or less sod-all. The Stewarts brought that very French idea into fashion, briefly, and it fell out of style just as quickly. Britain has a long tradition of balanced monarchy, ruling within the law. After Cromwell's time, Charles II went back to very same ideology as before. It was the Glorious Revolution that really changed things - without the bloodshed that Cromwell brought.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    We will recognise him later today when the regiment that has no royal colonel but bears the name of the village where Monck crossed into England on his march to London to declare for a free Parliament, troops its colour.
    Oh nice do you have anymore details on that - for a figure like him I wish it wasn't so obscure he had just as much of a pivotal role
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    (Original post by FredOrJohn)
    I think that would be as popular in Scotland as a lead balloon - perhaps that was the point (it was a mini-genocide):

    The battle of Dunbar lasted two hours. Cromwell claimed that 3,000 Scots were killed in the rout and another 10,000 taken prisoner, for the loss of only thirty men of the Commonwealth army. All the Scottish artillery and baggage was captured and 2,000 colours taken. Although Cromwell's estimate of the Scottish losses are probably exaggerated, it was undoubtedly a serious defeat for the Covenanters. The wounded Scottish prisoners were released, but about 5,000 were marched south to Durham. Many died from sickness and hunger either on the eight-day march or during the subsequent period of imprisonment in Durham Cathedral. The survivors were ultimately transported to New England or Barbados as indentured labourers.

    (ps thats slaves)
    They deserved it. Filthy traitors.
 
 
 
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