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Leading "Vote Leave" campaigner switches sides due to lies and deceit watch

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    (Original post by celloel)
    I'm unsure where you've gotten the idea that Brexit voter = poorer citizen. In fact, in practice, I've seen quite the opposite - I live in a very middle class neighbourhood, with many old people, and there are signs with 'Vote Leave' outside of many houses. Whilst the parents of my friends that are not as well-off are deciding to vote Remain (a lot of their reasoning is because of the ******** pamphlets stating we will lose jobs without providing any real evidence to such).
    Where in the country is that, out of interest? I've heard nothing but Remain from better off people I am aware of.
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    (Original post by JordanL_)
    It's you that doesn't seem to understand. It's a FACT that the EU gives us £9.5b/year (£5b rebate, £4.5b spending), just like it's a fact that we give the EU £350m/week. Both very misleading, both technically facts.
    You clearly don't understand. It's unfortunate that your decision to vote remain is based off of incorrect information...
    The 'rebate' is given before we ever give any money - that isn't them giving us money. It's letting us off having to pay such a huge sum, so we give £13 billion. They return £4.5 billion - so we are £8.5 billion WORSE OFF.

    Even if you did look at it as we pay £18 billion, they return £4.5 billion spending, £5 billion rebate, we're still £8.5 billion worse off - they're giving us back our money which many remain voters don't seem to comprehend. The EU do not give us money - their 'spending' is using OUR own money. We are paying £8.5 billion a year to the EU as a membership fee - NET.

    The absolute true and not misleading FACT is that we would be £8.5 billion a year better off as we would not be just handing it over to the EU.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Where in the country is that, out of interest? I've heard nothing but Remain from better off people I am aware of.
    South West of England
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    For those voting leave, would you be happy with a cabinet that consisted of the likes of Johnson, Gove, IDS & Patel? I can't think of anything more concerning and the notion that these privileged lot are fighting for the average man on the street is utterly absurd. Anyone believing they would seriously pump any extra money into the NHS is seriously gullible and deluded and probably believes that IDS actually left due to his conscience; it never ceases to amaze me just how easily people are taken in by politicians and our media. On that note, why is it acceptable for an Australian to pump out right-wing propaganda through our press?
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    How do you benefit exactly? How does spending BILLIONS every year help our economy? Also i meant they benefit financially and directly from being in the EU- ie from championing the EU for sponsoring it, from supporting it publicly.. "back hander's" maybe even! They benefit so they want to stay! Simple.. now do you understand..

    (Original post by JordanL_)
    It's you that doesn't seem to understand. It's a FACT that the EU gives us £9.5b/year (£5b rebate, £4.5b spending), just like it's a fact that we give the EU £350m/week. Both very misleading, both technically facts.



    This is lunacy. Of course they benefit from being in the EU, who the **** doesn't benefit from a better economy? I benefit from being in the EU, am I full of **** now too?????? You're taking the fact that someone benefits from being in the EU....... and using it to justify dismissing their explanations of how we benefit from being in the EU. You're delusional.
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    (Original post by celloel)
    South West of England
    Maybe it's more Leave-minded in solid Tory country areas. It's noticeable that the Leave Tory MPs tend to represent places like Somerset, Devon, etc.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    However, I still think when it comes to the polling booth, it will pay off, partly because of who votes - much higher percentages of older people and middle class people vote than poorer and younger people. They tend to opt for the status quo.
    Except that all the ratings show that older people are vastly more in favour of leaving, which basically blows everything you've just said into the water.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Maybe it's more Leave-minded in solid Tory country areas. It's noticeable that the Leave Tory MPs tend to represent places like Somerset, Devon, etc.
    That could be the case - but it's unfair to say the average Brexit voter is poor, or uneducated, and isn't based off of any factual evidence except what you choose to believe. In the same way I can't say every remain voter is poor or uneducated - it's simply not got evidence. It's just an opinion.
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    (Original post by Ed Phelan)
    For those voting leave, would you be happy with a cabinet that consisted of the likes of Johnson, Gove, IDS & Patel?
    Except for IDS they're all in or attend the cabinet already.
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    (Original post by celloel)
    I'm unsure where you've gotten the idea that Brexit voter = poorer citizen. In fact, in practice, I've seen quite the opposite - I live in a very middle class neighbourhood, with many old people, and there are signs with 'Vote Leave' outside of many houses. Whilst the parents of my friends that are not as well-off are deciding to vote Remain (a lot of their reasoning is because of the ******** pamphlets stating we will lose jobs without providing any real evidence to such).
    The evidence is clear that on the whole Leave supporters are poorer.

    You have however missed the key difference between the two groups in your neighbourhood. One of the strongest indicators of support for Leave is absence from the general economy. The less engaged people are with the economy, the more likely they are to support Leave.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    The evidence is clear that on the whole Leave supporters are poorer.

    You have however missed the key difference between the two groups in your neighbourhood. One of the strongest indicators of support for Leave is absence from the general economy. The less engaged people are with the economy, the more likely they are to support Leave.
    I'd love to see your evidence that this is the case.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    I think almost certainly. Boris will be protected (consider the postwar career of your namesake) but woebetide any other Leave supporters. What happened to Atlanta, will happen to them.
    Ha ha ha!

    His home was taken from him and his garden turned into a massive graveyard, but he got away with it comparatively, it is true.

    Will Gove be put in shackles in a dungeon like Jefferson Davis I wonder?

    And will Farage found the Ku Klux Khan like Bedford Forrest?
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    (Original post by celloel)
    I'd love to see your evidence that this is the case.
    http://www.populus.co.uk/2016/05/bre...ve-supporters/
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    Thanks for the link; but I do not believe that indicated a poorer voter is a Brexit voter - none of the stats directly indicated that - some indicated the opposite (own home outright, etc).
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    Except that all the ratings show that older people are vastly more in favour of leaving, which basically blows everything you've just said into the water.
    I wouldn't get too excited. Pollsters are bad at getting responses from pensioners and they go to the polls in droves. Yes, they will be motivated by racism, etc, which is why the Leavers are firmly using race/immigration as their main argument, but when they get into the booth, many older people vote status quo, as they have done in numerous referendums before.
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    At least those who are voting leave can be safe in the knowledge that they have the political heavyweights of Nick Griffin, Nigel Farage, Donald Trump & Marie Le Pen on their side.
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    I understand this the best method to gain information and to show statistics based on this information. I am not saying it's a bad method.. well maybe I am! Who knows how this campaign to gain information is advertised or who gets the opportunity to fill in the questionnaire? There are certain Facebook pages that have a very high majority of VOTE LEAVE members for example.. and the same for the other useless campaign too - the point is it would not be hard to "sway" it in any direction!
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    (Original post by celloel)
    Thanks for the link; but I do not believe that indicated a poorer voter is a Brexit voter - none of the stats directly indicated that - some indicated the opposite (own home outright, etc).
    Owning a home outright is strongly correlated to age.

    I am sorry but if you are unable to correlate social classes C2DE, pensioners and social housing occupiers to being poorer, then it just confirms my reply to Observatory. TSR posters are unable to draw inferences from data.
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    (Original post by Iknowbest)
    I understand this the best method to gain information and to show statistics based on this information. I am not saying it's a bad method.. well maybe I am! Who knows how this campaign to gain information is advertised or who gets the opportunity to fill in the questionnaire? There are certain Facebook pages that have a very high majority of VOTE LEAVE members for example.. and the same for the other useless campaign too - the point is it would not be hard to "sway" it in any direction!
    I am sorry but all commentary about the make-up of the support base for the Remain and Leave camps is solidly consistent. The debate is about the size of various groups and the fringes. There is no-one out there with any expertise in demographics or polling suggesting that any trends have been misunderstood. I have given one source, but all other sources are solidly consistent about this, far more so than about the numbers supporting both sides.
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    (Original post by Iknowbest)
    How do you benefit exactly? How does spending BILLIONS every year help our economy? Also i meant they benefit financially and directly from being in the EU- ie from championing the EU for sponsoring it, from supporting it publicly.. "back hander's" maybe even! They benefit so they want to stay! Simple.. now do you understand..
    the EU creates jobs and brings wealth to this country: that's the bare bones of it. you cannot deny this fact and you cannot continue to cover up the fact that so many jobs will be lost and so much economic insecurity will ensue if we leave.

    our economy has only grown since we became a member of the EU in 1973. the facts are all there: try to look at this objectively and realise how irresponsibly brexiters are thinking.
 
 
 
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