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    (Original post by Profesh)
    If this were the immediate aftermath of World War 2, or a biblical famine, that line of argument might actually have some bearing. As it is, our national population in 2015 crested some sixty-four million, so trying to justify the uncontrolled, largely mindless proliferation of offspring by individuals of questionable motive and parental suitability as though they're performing some kind of altruistic service to mankind no longer holds water.



    Yet again: 'attending to the needs' of your children is a legal duty arising from a voluntary act which, absent duress, is undertaken for one's personal gratification and as such, constitutes its own reward—much as turning up at the role you chose and satisfying the minimum quota of productivity may earn you a salary, but in a competitive environment does not entitle you to job security nor to your employer's automatic gratitude or admiration—and given the plethora of potential custodians who would be perfectly willing to shoulder that same, self-imposed responsibility to a greater moral and intellectual standard than required of them by law, merely adequate parenting in a society prosperous enough to sustain itself without your meagre genetic contribution does not grant you the right to expect exceptional sacrifices from your children; unless, of course, you saw fit to provide them with a similarly exceptional upbringing in their turn.

    You miss the point. If every woman at the face of this earth decided to quit giving birth then we will be on the verge of extinction, the older ones die off then who will fill the gap of the younger generation? Yes we are overpopulated at the moment but the statitistics won't be the same in the next century if every woman decided not to give birth. It also comes down to the partner, he may insist he wants more children but the girl doesn't so what choice does that leave you with?

    If you seriously think that a child doesn't owe their mother appreciation and respect then you got to pay your mother for all the unpaid services she's provided and years of sleepless nights and breast feeding. It's a two way street.
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    I am one of five children, the eldest by 8 years minimum. My Mum is turning 50 this year, I'm 25 this year.

    After a nasty separation from my step dad (where they seemingly did not talk about finances post-separation) she's now having to raise my four siblings who are in Year 9 or above whilst on benefits.

    She has (very outdated) qualifications in child care so if she were to get back into that vocation she would have to study again. Something she can't afford.

    In the last couple of years she's made lighthearted jokes and comments about 'us five' looking after her when she's older and broke. She's never brought it up as a serious topic but I can tell that there's some definite truth in there.

    I've realised recently that the date where she will be needing extra financial support is much sooner than anticipated due to child benefits stopping when my siblings turn 16. And that a conversation will need to happen between myself and my Mum about what she's going to do.

    I cannot afford to help her at this moment in time. And the likelihood of myself and my partner reaching a high financial income will be through his work, not mine. Meaning that it would be his money technically, I'm not prepared to ask him to fund my Mum.

    I'm frustrated because being the eldest by such a large margin means that it will be on my shoulders as an issue to deal with long before any of my siblings.

    My partner is also in a similar situation (though he's the youngest - however best with his money in the family) and his Mum has mentioned about us helping her out later on.

    I know that this is my Mother - she raised me! - however she also wasn't helpful (and was actually pretty counter-productive and cruel) when I needed her during a very hard depressive time fairly recently. It's something that I'll never forget unfortunately. But aside from that, just the assumption that I'll help no matter my situation made me feel very stressed out. My partner feels the same about his family too and if we were both earning six figures we would help instantly. But we're not.

    I'm just wondering what people's thoughts are on this? Have your parents expressed a similar thought? Do you think it's just a requirement we help our parents no questions asked or is it pretty selfish to assume your children will look after you no matter what?
    I'm going to take the other side for the sake of argument and variety and say you don't have to give back to your parents if you don't want to. (personally however if i did have the money to spare i would definitely give back to my parents, at least to 1 of them anyway....)

    Why should you give back to your parents? The answer is you don't have to if you don't want to.
    All those who say yes you're indebted to your parents after they spend all that time and effort looking after you and raising you up, well yea of course you have to look after your child, or why would you ever have a child? To get someone else to pay your debt or something?(lol i dunno)

    I mean if you're indebted to your parents by the time you're born that's not fair. You automatically owe your parents as soon as you're born... not good for you and it sucks bad. (can't think of much else to say xD)

    I mean if they did a **** job of raising you then you'll be less inclined to help them when they need it.
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    woah, i didnt realise you are 25! Because you're a young adult, you need to save money too for house etc etc so this isn't a great situation. I'd suggest your mum go to work and make your father pay towards the kids too, though i would help her with money but obviously you need to make sure youre alright first
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    She's actually referring to a point in the future when my siblings have grown up and moved out. Not this moment in time when my siblings are still in the house. It would be just her I'd be helping, not my siblings.



    My partner has a very low income, I have a very low income. We're working on building it up between us but we're only just getting to the point where we can actually buy nice things for ourselves. We are getting by, and my Mum knows this. She's knows our financial situation - and the only way she could think that we're more well off is if she's overestimating my partner's income. Which is exactly that, my partners income. Not mine.



    I would never put her in that situation. I'd be mortified if I had to ask my daughter for help.



    Like what? I'm not sure she would. It's coming across that she's just expecting this help for nothing because she's my mother.



    I agree with the most part of what you've said. However, I don't believe that it's my obligation to put myself out further with a second job to fund my mother?

    We have history when it comes to money and jobs. I got seriously depressed in my early twenties, I hated my job and it only ever made me worse. I ended up quitting and claiming ESA because I was too ill. My Mum was angry that I wouldn't be bringing as much money into the house as I was before. She was more bothered about the money than her daughter's mental health. That was a massive kick in the teeth and it meant that I never got better whilst in that house. I gave her contributions from my ESA whilst pretty much bedridden but she didn't feel it was enough still. She ended up denying my partner access to the home, probably as an incentive for me to go out and get a job again and then kicking me out eventually when I didn't show signs of recovery. That 'one time incident' lasted six months and they were honestly the worst six months of my life.

    We get on again now (until the subject of jobs or money is brought up because we clearly don't see eye to eye) but I didn't get better from her help or support, I didn't cope very well when I ended up finding my own place and barely affording it. All of the support and love that was shown to me during my worst period was my partner. Which is why we now live together and support each other.
    You have no obligation to give her any money. I wouldn't even be speaking to my mother if she'd done that to me. Unless she is unable to work she needs to be looking for a job (since it sounds like she doesn't have one). She's 50, not 70.
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    i am willing to support my parents when i can afford too OP
    but that isn't often with most of my money going back into stock
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    I am one of five children, the eldest by 8 years minimum. My Mum is turning 50 this year, I'm 25 this year.

    After a nasty separation from my step dad (where they seemingly did not talk about finances post-separation) she's now having to raise my four siblings who are in Year 9 or above whilst on benefits.

    She has (very outdated) qualifications in child care so if she were to get back into that vocation she would have to study again. Something she can't afford.

    In the last couple of years she's made lighthearted jokes and comments about 'us five' looking after her when she's older and broke. She's never brought it up as a serious topic but I can tell that there's some definite truth in there.

    I've realised recently that the date where she will be needing extra financial support is much sooner than anticipated due to child benefits stopping when my siblings turn 16. And that a conversation will need to happen between myself and my Mum about what she's going to do.

    I cannot afford to help her at this moment in time. And the likelihood of myself and my partner reaching a high financial income will be through his work, not mine. Meaning that it would be his money technically, I'm not prepared to ask him to fund my Mum.

    I'm frustrated because being the eldest by such a large margin means that it will be on my shoulders as an issue to deal with long before any of my siblings.

    My partner is also in a similar situation (though he's the youngest - however best with his money in the family) and his Mum has mentioned about us helping her out later on.

    I know that this is my Mother - she raised me! - however she also wasn't helpful (and was actually pretty counter-productive and cruel) when I needed her during a very hard depressive time fairly recently. It's something that I'll never forget unfortunately. But aside from that, just the assumption that I'll help no matter my situation made me feel very stressed out. My partner feels the same about his family too and if we were both earning six figures we would help instantly. But we're not.

    I'm just wondering what people's thoughts are on this? Have your parents expressed a similar thought? Do you think it's just a requirement we help our parents no questions asked or is it pretty selfish to assume your children will look after you no matter what?
    Your mum can apply to continue receiving Child Benefit until they turn 19. That's what my mother did with my younger brother and me, successfully both times. It's just not advertised.
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    (Original post by Profesh)
    Your mother, an apparently educated member of a stable and (relatively) prosperous first-world society, nevertheless undertook of her own free will to create and thereby assume prima facie legal responsibility for four dependents until adulthood; so contrary to the inevitable barrage of boilerplate reasoning concocted from third-world cultural detritus by a cohort of hidebound morons whose ostensibly moral arguments are little more than emotional blackmail parading as a half-baked appeal to authority, you do not owe her anything whatsoever by mere incident of a birth and upbringing in which you had no choice.

    As such, the key moral consideration here rests not on whether you feel she happens to have discharged a parental role to the minimum standard of competence incumbent upon literally anyone raising children in this country, but whether she did so to an extent which would warrant extraordinary reciprocation on your part. Or, alternatively: whether she was—and is—in your estimation, not just a parent, but rather a good mother.
    Have you ever heard of the term "waffling" or "purple prose"?
 
 
 
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