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    (Original post by JamesN88)
    I actually respect Farage(despite disagreeing with him) as he's true to what he's spouting, Boris is just a parasite who's after the PM's job and acting purely out of self-interest. As you say the pretense that it's a stand against the elites from that lot is laughable.
    Boris and Gove are two individual members of the elite, that is true. But in this campaign they are out in the cold, with all the elite institutions, almost all the Cabinet, almost the entire Opposition, the Government machine, the IMF, the Bank of England, the rich Bankers and the City, big business, the BBC (supposed to be neutral but clearly biased for in), the EU itself of course.

    We only need the Archbishop of Canterbury and the Pope to tell us to stay in and we'll have the whole set.

    Edit. I must be psychic. I see the Archbishop has declared for in now. What a surprise.
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    (Original post by HFBS)
    Existing models of trading include freedom of movement and the continued payment into the EU and regulation, only without any right to vote on the legislation..
    Time to put an end to this one because it's gone unchallenged for too long.

    Norway accepts only 9% of EU regulations. Switzerland accepts none. Both have the freedom - unlike ourselves - to reject regulations that would harm their economy or people.
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    (Original post by ByEeek)
    Politicians not in power have been promising "Change" since the beginning of time. They then get into power on a mandate for change and discover that it isn't quite as simple as when they dreamed up their ideas in the pub on the back of an envelope.

    Either that or the change imposed was so destructive that by the time the change was implemented no one was any better off.
    I agree, but Cameron has shown himself to be incompetent at leading the country in a Brexit scenario so anyone would be better.
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    (Original post by EuanF)
    Time to put an end to this one because it's gone unchallenged for too long.

    Norway accepts only 9% of EU regulations. Switzerland accepts none. Both have the freedom - unlike ourselves - to reject regulations that would harm their economy or people.
    Indeed and given the size of the British economy within Europe I think that it would be very likely that we would continue to have a very similar trading pattern with Europe post-brexit. There's no real reason to believe otherwise.
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    (Original post by caravaggio2)
    1 Eddie Izzards pathetic performance on QT
    That entire evening, the debate as well as QT, was an unmitigated disaster for Remain. In both cases the Leave side presented itself admirably, whilst the Remainers presented themselves as childish, irrational bullies.
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    It seems Hull is majority leave! What people dont understand, is that the Labour champagne socialists have alienated their core voters in the north and other working class towns who want to leave and the party is for the exact opposite.

    Clearly shows that 75% of the politicians and parties are only in so they can get a slice of the gravy train. Total disregard for the peoples wishes and sovereignty of the UK
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    (Original post by sachinisgod)
    It seems Hull is majority leave! What people dont understand, is that the Labour champagne socialists have alienated their core voters in the north and other working class towns who want to leave and the party is for the exact opposite.

    Clearly shows that 75% of the politicians and parties are only in so they can get a slice of the gravy train. Total disregard for the peoples wishes and sovereignty of the UK
    "My fateful Eurosceptic speech at the British Chambers of Commerce conference on the 3 March ultimately led to my resignation as Director-General. This is the only way I could speak freely on the EU referendum. As I left the stage at our national conference, the next speaker was waiting in the wings and he very kindly shook my hand and said how much he agreed with me.

    That person was Jeremy Corbyn.

    The EU and open-border EU immigration has been a disaster for working people in the UK. Working people have been abandoned by the Labour Party, sacrificed on the altar of the EU project and at the hands of an Islington intelligentsia. Voters are abandoning them in droves for Ukip, or simply staying at home out of despair.

    I come from a northern former mill town and many of my friends are life-long Labour voters. Almost all of them think Labour has “lost the plot” – their words, not mine – and that the party is now completely out of touch on the issue of Brexit."

    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics...nd-back-brexit
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    (Original post by EuanF)
    "My fateful Eurosceptic speech at the British Chambers of Commerce conference on the 3 March ultimately led to my resignation as Director-General. This is the only way I could speak freely on the EU referendum. As I left the stage at our national conference, the next speaker was waiting in the wings and he very kindly shook my hand and said how much he agreed with me.

    That person was Jeremy Corbyn.

    The EU and open-border EU immigration has been a disaster for working people in the UK. Working people have been abandoned by the Labour Party, sacrificed on the altar of the EU project and at the hands of an Islington intelligentsia. Voters are abandoning them in droves for Ukip, or simply staying at home out of despair.

    I come from a northern former mill town and many of my friends are life-long Labour voters. Almost all of them think Labour has “lost the plot” – their words, not mine – and that the party is now completely out of touch on the issue of Brexit."

    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics...nd-back-brexit
    Jeremy Corbyn is against the EU and wants to leave but to remain the leader of Labour and have the support from the rest of the traitors like Stephen Kinnock, he needs to portray the party views and pretend we should stay in.
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    (Original post by sachinisgod)
    Jeremy Corbyn is against the EU and wants to leave but to remain the leader of Labour and have the support from the rest of the traitors like Stephen Kinnock, he needs to portray the party views and pretend we should stay in.
    Bizarre. So which do you want? A Labour leader who democratically represents and stands for the views voted for by the party, or one who leads the party by his own views alone?
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    (Original post by MagicNMedicine)
    I agree with most of the OPs points above, but not this point about it being a stand against "the elites".

    I think annoyance with "the elites" is what has put a lot of people off the campaign altogether, because lets be honest the Leave campaign is also full of elites telling us what to do, throwing out spurious facts.

    How are Boris Johnson, Michael Gove, Chris Grayling, Nigel Farage etc anything other than "elites".

    They are all wealthy and enjoy political power of their own and access to others of influence. Now they are trying to position themselves as some kind of anti-establishment voice of the people, talking about saving the NHS, unaffordable hoursing, access to public services, workers rights and low wages.

    Those four don't give a **** about the NHS, unaffordable housing, public services, workers rights and low wages. They have never campaigned about it in their lives before, until now suddenly they start championing it. If we leave the EU and they have got what they want on that lets see how their tune changes, they will go back to telling us the NHS needs to be reformed and more private markets involved, restrict planning permission to keep house prices high, slashing funding for public services, removing workers rights under the guise of "reducing red tape for businesses".

    They are just opportunists using arguments that they don't care about but that they think people will care about, because its convenient to them in this referendum. They are two faced "elites".
    Face it, most politicians are *elites* compared to the vast majority of the country.

    The reason the labour party is so hypocritical is despite the fact it's suppose to be 'the working mans party', it's headed by middle class intellectuals who despise the opinion of the core voters. If the labour MP's did their job and represented the working class they claim to represent they'd be pro leave.

    Not because it necessarily is in workers interests to leave, but because most working class people in my experience are pro-leave. Obviously you have the younger generations and student who are pro-remain, but that's more to do with the case I think younger people tend to be more positive about such things.

    And while labour are much more naturally aligned to dealing with the NHS, unaffordable housing, public services, workers rights and low wages, they have the problem that their ideals seem to be at odds with voters who they generally treat as stupid and barbaric if they don't agree with them. Aka 'we want to help you, but we're going to brand you a racist because you're worried about the effects immigration will have on your job and public services'.
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    (Original post by ByEeek)
    Bizarre. So which do you want? A Labour leader who democratically represents and stands for the views voted for by the party, or one who leads the party by his own views alone?
    We'd like one that represented the voters of the labour party, not just the MPs.
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    (Original post by ByEeek)
    Bizarre. So which do you want? A Labour leader who democratically represents and stands for the views voted for by the party, or one who leads the party by his own views alone?
    I'd much rather have one who doesn't stand for his own views or his party views... instead the views of the electorate he wishes to represent.

    If MP's actually did that Labour would be mostly pro-leave and conservatives would be mostly pro-remain.... but they don't because of the party system and the fact they want to lure in voters from the opposition.
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    (Original post by generallee)
    Boris and Gove are two individual members of the elite, that is true. But in this campaign they are out in the cold, with all the elite institutions, almost all the Cabinet, almost the entire Opposition, the Government machine, the IMF, the Bank of England, the rich Bankers and the City, big business, the BBC (supposed to be neutral but clearly biased for in), the EU itself of course.

    We only need the Archbishop of Canterbury and the Pope to tell us to stay in and we'll have the whole set.
    TBH I couldn't believe how out of touch remain were when they put up "House prices will fall" as a reason for us all to vote remain.
    Have they no idea of the millions that are struggling to get on the property ladder or are paying through the nose for rent in over priced houses. You couldnt have given them a better reason to vote out.
    If we leave it will be the working class and disaffected that are already poor and have little to lose other than somebody coming in and undercutting their labour that will win it. The fact that we have fewer haves than have nots is what is going to turn round and bite the elites and Champaign socialists on their Harris's.
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    power of paranoia - most powerful weapon is used worldwide - drum up fear of immigration, fear of lack of public services, fear of loss of sovereignty
 
 
 
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