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‘F*** off Europe, were all voting OUT’ England fans ‘chant anti-EU songs at Euro 2016 Watch

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    (Original post by DanB1991)
    *sigh* which is why I hate party politics... it returns us to a oligarchy system instead of a representative democracy. You should represent your voters, not your party.
    But the voters voted for the party, which means they voted for what they party stands for. If they don't believe in what the party stands for they can either vote for another party, become a party member and try to change the party or start a new party with like minded people, UKIP for example is a party only around 20 years old, which shows new parties can form and rise to prominence if they have support.
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    (Original post by Kay_Winters)
    But the voters voted for the party, which means they voted for what they party stands for. If they don't believe in what the party stands for they can either vote for another party, become a party member and try to change the party or start a new party with like minded people, UKIP for example is a party only around 20 years old, which shows new parties can form and rise to prominence if they have support.
    Most people (well moderates) vote for a party that will get them what they want. It's why in most western democracies you see a left-right swing every so often.

    Very few people will vote for labour or conservative due to their core beliefs, if that was true the liberals would most likely be in power imo.
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    Well, it does make a change from a bunch of fat drunks in England tops singing "no surrender to the IRA", which is really getting old now.
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    (Original post by Kay_Winters)
    And my reply was about EU immigration benefiting UK science and R&D as those who work in the science, and science has a direct affect on R&D, have said leaving would put UK science in jeopardy, both in part due to the money from the EU but also due to the end of freedom of movement, as it would stop experts, one in five of whom reside in the EU, in the rest of the EU being able to come to the UK easily to conduct research.

    Secondly given you never actually quoted Dyson I went off what I found online, which was simply Dyson talking about how people would still want to trade with us, I didn't find any comments on immigration at all.
    The argument about the end of freedom of movement is nonsense. It would be open to the British government to let in as many scientists from the EU as it wanted. Make no mistake, this is about money. This is funding that it would be perfectly open to an elected British government to continue giving to science.

    I assumed, apparently mistakenly, that you were able to google competently, even if you had been living under a rock for the last two days of Dyson and his comments being plastered all over the news. The gist of the argument is that it is unduly difficult to get non-EU researchers into the country, and keep non-EU science and engineering grads from UK universities in the country, because skilled non-EU immigration is crowded out by unlimited unskilled EU immigration.

    This will always be the case whilst we have a totally open border with the EU, because the British public would not accept unlimited immigration from the whole world. Leaving the EU would allow the government to set up a fair, non-discriminatory system to select the best immigrants from around the world for the country's needs -- including science and technology. This would enable us to end the absurd situation we have now, of the government having to try to push down highly skilled non-EU immigration before non-skilled EU immigration in order to keep the overall numbers at vaguely sensible levels.
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    (Original post by Sephiroth)
    At the end of the day there's two ways to solve the strain on housing and services. One is to do what you said, the other is to prevent the population from increasing. You can't avoid doing what you talk about while allowing massive population increases, it doesn't work. I don't mind immigration when done right (Australian style system) but right now the country is full and until the government do what you talk about it will remain full in my view and in many people's view. As we have no control over our borders we have to leave the EU.

    As for your second paragraph, I find it hard to believe that in a country of 60 million people we need to look abroad for employees. People being underskilled is a myth that employers perpetuate in order to drive up competition for jobs, and competition means they can pay the people they do employ less. As for no skill jobs such as cleaning and field work, our unemployed should be made to take these kind of jobs instead of claiming benefits.
    Stopping immigration won't prevent the population increasing, we would need to see high levels of migration out of the Country to continue with the current levels of spending to stop the strain, and stopping the freedom of movement with the rest of the EU would actually make that migration out of the Country harder. The only solution is to increase spending on public services and housing, this will decrease waiting times for the NHS, increase unskilled and skilled work, and see more affordable houses to buy and rent, including a massive increase in council houses to replace those sold off.

    Our unemployed can't always do those kind of jobs, especially those unemployed in say cities who don't live near farms, and can't afford to up and move for one example. As for people being underskilled being a myth, if someone doesn't have the skills I fail to see how they can be employed? You can't hire someone who dropped out after their GCSEs in a high tech job they would have no understanding of? Or a History grad for a maths grad level job.
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    (Original post by DanB1991)
    Most people (well moderates) vote for a party that will get them what they want. It's why in most western democracies you see a left-right swing every so often.

    Very few people will vote for labour or conservative due to their core beliefs, if that was true the liberals would most likely be in power imo.
    In that case it is the voters fault for voting for a party they don't agree with, a party is elected to do what it says it wants to do, if someone elects them hoping them to do something different then I would argue they don't understand how democracy works.

    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    The argument about the end of freedom of movement is nonsense. It would be open to the British government to let in as many scientists from the EU as it wanted. Make no mistake, this is about money. This is funding that it would be perfectly open to an elected British government to continue giving to science.

    I assumed, apparently mistakenly, that you were able to google competently, even if you had been living under a rock for the last two days of Dyson and his comments being plastered all over the news. The gist of the argument is that it is unduly difficult to get non-EU researchers into the country, and keep non-EU science and engineering grads from UK universities in the country, because skilled non-EU immigration is crowded out by unlimited unskilled EU immigration.

    This will always be the case whilst we have a totally open border with the EU, because the British public would not accept unlimited immigration from the whole world. Leaving the EU would allow the government to set up a fair, non-discriminatory system to select the best immigrants from around the world for the country's needs -- including science and technology. This would enable us to end the absurd situation we have now, of the government having to try to push down highly skilled non-EU immigration before non-skilled EU immigration in order to keep the overall numbers at vaguely sensible levels.
    I am only repeating what I saw in the article, and I think it makes sense, restricting the movement of the experts will restrict the level of research across the EU and especially in the UK.

    I googled Dyson EU comments and took a look at the BBC article which purely talks about trade, not immigration. I have also not noticed an article about Dyson at all when I glanced at the guardian's site yesterday, although it may have been lost in the live news feed somewhere I admit. I would say if it is hard to get non-EU researchers into the Country, something which needs to change I agree, how will it be any different in getting EU researchers into the Country should we leave? There is always room for skilled workers in key areas in the UK, regardless of unskilled immigration from the EU.

    Anyway this has to be my last reply at least for a while as I have things around the house that need doing today, apologies to all who I was talking to
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    (Original post by Kay_Winters)
    Stopping immigration won't prevent the population increasing, we would need to see high levels of migration out of the Country to continue with the current levels of spending to stop the strain, and stopping the freedom of movement with the rest of the EU would actually make that migration out of the Country harder. The only solution is to increase spending on public services and housing, this will decrease waiting times for the NHS, increase unskilled and skilled work, and see more affordable houses to buy and rent, including a massive increase in council houses to replace those sold off.

    Our unemployed can't always do those kind of jobs, especially those unemployed in say cities who don't live near farms, and can't afford to up and move for one example. As for people being underskilled being a myth, if someone doesn't have the skills I fail to see how they can be employed? You can't hire someone who dropped out after their GCSEs in a high tech job they would have no understanding of? Or a History grad for a maths grad level job.
    If we stopped immigration altogether then the population would decrease because we do have people leaving each year. Regardless, doing nothing will increase the strain on housing and services so let's not allow it to get any worse. Migration caps should be in place based on our ability to provide housing, jobs and services. Right now we can't get that right for the current population so we don't need more.

    And come on, if people can move from eastern Europe to pick fruit on a farm I'm sure people can move from London or Manchester to do the same. That's no argument at all. As for specialist jobs that no one out of 60 million people are capable of doing then that clearly highlights a gap in the education system and as these jobs are so specialist immigration from these sectors should be insignificant anyway.

    Most Brexit campaigners are in favour of an Australian style points system for immigration anyway (including myself) which would allow these highly skilled specialist people into the country, giving equal chance to those from anywhere in the world and not just preference to people in the EU. If you want the best people, as you seem to claim, then you must see the unfairness in the immigration system that makes it harder for people outside the EU to come work here!
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    (Original post by WhiteMan16)
    ENGLAND fans have reportedly been chanting anti-European Union slogans at Euro 2016 as they clash with French riot police in Marseille.

    Three Lions supporters have reportedly been heard chanting: “F*** off Europe, we’re all voting out.”

    They have also been heard singing: “Sit down if you hate the French” as officers fired tear gas in the southern port city yesterday.

    England fans have clashed with French riot police for three consecutive days
    It comes as a poll by bookmakers Coral shows a staggering lead for Brexit among England fans at Euro 2016.

    Support for leaving the bureaucratic bloc is at 39 per cent to just 25 per cent for Remain, according to the poll.

    [email protected]
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/679...u-songs-brexit
    Not condoning their actions. But why don't you mentioned the part where the England fans (including disabled fans in wheelchairs in the stadium (and elsewhere) where attacked by Russian thugs wearing balaclavas and were forced to take refuge on the pitch. As well as attacks from Marseilles Ultras, and attacks from Nice locals on Northern Irish and Polish fans.
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    Vote LEAVE! Take back control of our country. Make Britain great again!
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    I honestly think that the British people are petty enough to vote to leave the EU purely on the basis of getting knocked out in the group stages.
 
 
 
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