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    (Original post by LordMallard)
    They have promised increase in spending for the NHS. Referring to tax cuts there has been the suggestion of reducing VAT on energy. Also if we leave there will be extra money available and the government of the day may decide to use that to cut taxes.
    Cut taxes for who? Which band will be cut? Can you find me a quote by one of the major players outlining how the savings they are talking about will be spent?
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    (Original post by offhegoes)
    The EU Parliament votes to accept or refuse the assembled Commission members though, right? And the EU Commission President is also elected.
    no, they vote on the president. the individual nation states vote on each commissioner, and in all cases I know of (e.g. the UK), they're appointed by the head of government, without any kind of democratic process or transparency.

    I vote for an MEP on the basis that I trust them to undertake all their duties responsibly, including voting.
    so you essentially trust them...to vote on anything they want...instead of a specific manifesto or platform...how is that in the spirit of representative democracy? sounds like you're voting for *anything* they want at the time, as opposed to representation. sounds very EU.
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    (Original post by offhegoes)
    Cut taxes for who? Which band will be cut? Can you find me a quote by one of the major players outlining how the savings they are talking about will be spent?
    I clearly stated that it wasn't something promised, but a future government may decide to cut taxes with the money that would have gone to the EU. I also mentioned the fact that key leave figures such as Gove and Leadsom have advocated scrapping VAT on energy.

    Remember the leave campaign is a group campaigning for a referendum, not an alternative government setting out a manifesto.
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    (Original post by sleepysnooze)
    no, they vote on the president. the individual nation states vote on each commissioner, and in all cases I know of (e.g. the UK), they're appointed by the head of government, without any kind of democratic process or transparency.
    "The Commission as a whole needs the Parliament's consent."

    From the EU Commission's website.

    so you essentially trust them...to vote on anything they want...instead of a specific manifesto or platform...how is that in the spirit of representative democracy? sounds like you're voting for *anything* they want at the time, as opposed to representation. sounds very EU.
    Not at all. I vote for them based on their politics. Just the same as I would in any election. I find it much more sensible to vote for someone based on their overall politics rather than one or two big issues. After all, they are going to represent me in all matters, not just one or two.
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    (Original post by LordMallard)
    I clearly stated that it wasn't something promised, but a future government may decide to cut taxes with the money that would have gone to the EU. I also mentioned the fact that key leave figures such as Gove and Leadsom have advocated scrapping VAT on energy.

    Remember the leave campaign is a group campaigning for a referendum, not an alternative government setting out a manifesto.
    But since I know full well some of the things that will be taken away if we leave the EU, how can I know if it's worth the "savings" if I don't know what the "savings" will be used for? Frankly I prefer what we have now to taking the plunge with, in my opinion, a greater chance of getting inferior things in return.

    In a sense, I trust the EU more than I do the governments elected by the UK (as in, to be fair, England).
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    (Original post by offhegoes)
    But since I know full well some of the things that will be taken away if we leave the EU, how can I know if it's worth the "savings" if I don't know what the "savings" will be used for? Frankly I prefer what we have now to taking the plunge with, in my opinion, a greater chance of getting inferior things in return.

    In a sense, I trust the EU more than I do the governments elected by the UK (as in, to be fair, England).
    Well I mentioned the NHS pledge, and it will be money that we will control and can choose where it's spent. That's why they don't say where it's spent as it's not their choice it's what the British people decide in elections.Also the government will have control over immigration policy, allowing voters to elect a government that can actually fulfill promises on immigration.
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    (Original post by offhegoes)
    Question for anyone really, but I imagine a Leave person would be beat able to answer this:

    Why would I vote Leave?

    Specifically, what would change for the better for me if the UK left the EU? I'm curious to see if there's anything significant. I'm looking for more than pure speculation by the way
    Independence,democracy,borders and immigration.The EU is German centric
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    (Original post by RoyalMarine)
    Independence,democracy,borders and immigration.The EU is German centric
    What does independence mean to me? How does that improve my life?

    I'm already happy with the democratic system in the EU, more so than I am with the UK system of democracy.

    What about borders? I've no problem with the current level of imigration either.

    I love Germany, German people, German food and beer. Better than being London-centric.
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    (Original post by offhegoes)
    What does independence mean to me? How does that improve my life?

    I'm already happy with the democratic system in the EU, more so than I am with the UK system of democracy.

    What about borders? I've no problem with the current level of imigration either.

    I love Germany, German people, German food and beer. Better than being London-centric.
    Immigration steals jobs to British students as the EU gives their degrees the same value. Germany does its own interest which is not the same of the UK,for example they don't let us to make deals with the United States that would benefit us.
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    Less Migration=better quality of life for UK citizens.
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    (Original post by offhegoes)
    But since I know full well some of the things that will be taken away if we leave the EU, how can I know if it's worth the "savings" if I don't know what the "savings" will be used for? Frankly I prefer what we have now to taking the plunge with, in my opinion, a greater chance of getting inferior things in return.

    In a sense, I trust the EU more than I do the governments elected by the UK (as in, to be fair, England).
    why?At least the UK governments are the same nationality so they'll more likely do the best interests of the British people. The EU technocrats don't do our interests,they have other priorities and whn we'll need help they won't lift a finget. When Greece was in crisis they struck them and sent them into poverty,thousands of Greek babies are under the nutritional level like African countries.
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    (Original post by offhegoes)
    Question for anyone really, but I imagine a Leave person would be beat able to answer this:

    Why would I vote Leave?

    Specifically, what would change for the better for me if the UK left the EU? I'm curious to see if there's anything significant. I'm looking for more than pure speculation by the way


    It's difficult to know who to trust nowadays as it seems both sides tend to extend the truth just a little. Both remaining and leaving have their pros and cons.

    But as Joe Strummer famously said:
    "If I go there will be trouble
    An' if I stay it will be double"

    I think he sums it up accurately.
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    (Original post by RoyalMarine)
    why?At least the UK governments are the same nationality so they'll more likely do the best interests of the British people. The EU technocrats don't do our interests,they have other priorities and whn we'll need help they won't lift a finget. When Greece was in crisis they struck them and sent them into poverty,thousands of Greek babies are under the nutritional level like African countries.
    Speculation. Harold Shipman is the same nationality as me. Great stuff.

    What should the EU have done to address Greece's economic issues, exactly?
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    (Original post by offhegoes)
    Speculation. Harold Shipman is the same nationality as me. Great stuff.

    What should the EU have done to address Greece's economic issues, exactly?
    Greeks don't have enough food for children and don't have a NHS after the Euro crisis. So if the EU doesn't help us when we need them,why should we stay? This is facts not speculation. The remain is based on speculation not the leave
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    (Original post by RoyalMarine)
    Greeks don't have enough food for children and don't have a NHS after the Euro crisis. So if the EU doesn't help us when we need them,why should we stay? This is facts not speculation. The remain is based on speculation not the leave
    This was a Greek crisis, not a Euro crisis. Again, what should the EU have done? The EU didn't take away the health service from Greece, nor did they take food from children.

    And a source for the data on Greek children and malnutrition?
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    (Original post by offhegoes)
    This was a Greek crisis, not a Euro crisis. Again, what should the EU have done? The EU didn't take away the health service from Greece, nor did they take food from children.

    And a source for the data on Greek children and malnutrition?
    yes they did,it seems you know nothing about it. They put starving conditions to give them some relief with their debts. The EU had no solidarity at all with one of its members in the moment of need. What's the point of staying in then? They will treat us just like they treated Greece if we need help. We better deal with the United States who are our friends and today we can't because of the EU treaties.
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    (Original post by RoyalMarine)
    yes they did,it seems you know nothing about it. They put starving conditions to give them some relief with their debts. The EU had no solidarity at all with one of its members in the moment of need. What's the point of staying in then? They will treat us just like they treated Greece if we need help. We better deal with the United States who are our friends and today we can't because of the EU treaties.
    Right, so I'm clearly going to need a source on your assentation that the EU took away Greece's health service and took food from Greek children...

    And for the second time, a source on your information on the malnutrition of Greek children?

    And for the third time, what exactly should the EU have done differently with the Greek crisis?
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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTMxfAkxfQ0

    Try the last ten minutes of that film or all if you want. The end is most important.

    http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co....ash-chaos.html

    And read this article, an emphasis of what is the right course, in his and my view, for people who are not the arrogant and powerful.

    My favourite bit-

    "Do these people even know what they are saying when they call us ‘Little Englanders’?

    England has never been more little than it is now, a subject province of someone else’s empire.

    I have to say that this isn’t the way out I would have chosen, and that I hate referendums because I love our ancient Parliament. And, as I loathe anarchy and chaos, I fear the crisis that I think is coming.

    I hope we produce people capable of handling it. I wouldn’t have started from here. But despite all this, it is still rather thrilling to see the British people stirring at last after a long, long sleep."
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    l'm voting OUT.... EU to big to greedy and couldn't run a raffle, more or less every country within EU are folding with Spain, Italy, Germany all in trouble. The EU bleeds countries dry will continue to do so.. only countries not sinking are the ones who were sensible not to join full membership. EU is a sinking ship with no life jacket...

    another example of their greed.

    Morocco had all fruit and veg exports to the EU halted last year (not for the first time) until they signed away their coastal fishing rights for pennies. The export rights were reinstated two days after they did eventually sign away their rights.

    VOTE OUT!!!
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    (Original post by offhegoes)
    Right, so I'm clearly going to need a source on your assentation that the EU took away Greece's health service and took food from Greek children...

    And for the second time, a source on your information on the malnutrition of Greek children?

    And for the third time, what exactly should the EU have done differently with the Greek crisis?
    are you writing an essay in school? seem to be asking an awful lot of questions but seem to disbelieve everything you are told..

    infact l think you could even be a remain campaigner..
 
 
 
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