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    (Original post by Ezme39)
    Specific ideologies, yes. Not the entire collection of ideologies held by every muslim- that is racism because it is non-specific, and directed towards anyone who identifies by that label.

    By saying 'Islam is wrong' or anything of that description, we are just skirting around the issue. Violence, attacks etc. are the issue. Hatred is the issue. The vast majority of muslims are not violent or hateful people - so by attacking their identity unjustly, there is racism.

    We should be saying 'I disagree with your views' not 'I disagree with your identity'.

    Many Christians have committed hateful crimes, and hold views against homosexuality, or for the suppression of women. Why do we not speak this way about them?
    That is a ridiculous argument spouted by liberals who don't seem to understand that its not about the religion of the person who commits the crime, its about motivation.

    People of all religions commit crimes, these days, most people who commit crimes in the name of their religion are Muslims, thus your point is not valid.

    Its not really hard to understand,
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    (Original post by Ezme39)
    Specific ideologies, yes. Not the entire collection of ideologies held by every muslim- that is racism because it is non-specific, and directed towards anyone who identifies by that label.

    By saying 'Islam is wrong' or anything of that description, we are just skirting around the issue. Violence, attacks etc. are the issue. Hatred is the issue. The vast majority of muslims are not violent or hateful people - so by attacking their identity unjustly, there is racism.

    We should be saying 'I disagree with your views' not 'I disagree with your identity'.

    Many Christians have committed hateful crimes, and hold views against homosexuality, or for the suppression of women. Why do we not speak this way about them?
    You shouldn't have left the Kitchen.
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    (Original post by Ezme39)
    Specific ideologies, yes. Not the entire collection of ideologies held by every muslim- that is racism because it is non-specific, and directed towards anyone who identifies by that label.

    By saying 'Islam is wrong' or anything of that description, we are just skirting around the issue. Violence, attacks etc. are the issue. Hatred is the issue. The vast majority of muslims are not violent or hateful people - so by attacking their identity unjustly, there is racism.

    We should be saying 'I disagree with your views' not 'I disagree with your identity'.

    Many Christians have committed hateful crimes, and hold views against homosexuality, or for the suppression of women. Why do we not speak this way about them?
    It is specific though because when I say "All Muslims hold immoral beliefs" I have a specific definition of Muslims in mind when I say that. Hence it is very specific. The problem is of course that not everyone will define Muslims just like me, hence there will be some Muslims who are not immoral because they call themselves Muslim even though I don't think they are.

    Not that I hold the belief that all Muslims are immoral because for me, all it means to be a Muslim is to believe in Allah and believe Mohammed was a prophet of Allah, that is literally all it means for me. For others it definitely isn't that simple. For example many belief you cannot be a Muslim if you do not believe in scripture.

    That's the same thing though when it comes to religion. One's religious identity tells us one's views. And thus if that identity correlates with certain views we dislike saying we dislike that identity makes perfect sense. And of course it's far more succinct than saying "I hate all you homosexual hating, abortion disallowing, prudish theists!". Is it not?

    I think realistically it is just because IN THIS COUNTRY the proportion of Christians that hold extremely hateful views is extremely lower than the proportion of Muslims. Muslims IN THIS COUNTRY on average tend to be far more devout in their beliefs than Christians here. If we were in Indonesia that might be different. Or Europe a few centuries ago... Does that justify speaking about Muslims how we do and not Christians? Yeah, I think so, because most Muslims I know really don't condone homosexual behaviour. So... Very different from most Christians I know that do. Like, seriously, that's a massive difference.
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    (Original post by The_Opinion)
    That is a ridiculous argument spouted by liberals who don't seem to understand that its not about the religion of the person who commits the crime, its about motivation.

    People of all religions commit crimes, these days, most people who commit crimes in the name of their religion are Muslims, thus your point is not valid.

    Its not really hard to understand,


    It's hard for them to understand because they are as dense as steel pipes
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    (Original post by Newsout)
    Where the hell are you getting this rubbish ideas from?
    How is it rubbish?

    that's why racism is bad. Because you are making assumptions on someone and from that reacting in way that you would not if you actually knew the truth about them.

    If you actually know the truth and act based on that truth then there is no issue, in and of that itself of course...
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    (Original post by TorpidPhil)
    It is specific though because when I say "All Muslims hold immoral beliefs" I have a specific definition of Muslims in mind when I say that. Hence it is very specific. The problem is of course that not everyone will define Muslims just like me, hence there will be some Muslims who are not immoral because they call themselves Muslim even though I don't think they are.
    So you are not talking about people who define themselves as muslim, you're talking about people that you define as muslim?

    (Original post by The_Opinion)
    That is a ridiculous argument spouted by liberals who don't seem to understand that its not about the religion of the person who commits the crime, its about motivation.

    People of all religions commit crimes, these days, most people who commit crimes in the name of their religion are Muslims, thus your point is not valid.
    Exactly, it's the motivation, not the religion. You have literally just stated my point.

    I did not argue with that. I am saying that you cannot class all people as the same; that's really not hard to understand either. Promoting positive youth groups among Islam etc can be a positive way of tackling these issues, for example, rather than further rejecting the community.

    (Original post by WhiteMan16)
    You shouldn't have left the Kitchen.
    I'll keep that in mind sir
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    (Original post by TorpidPhil)
    How is it rubbish?

    that's why racism is bad. Because you are making assumptions on someone and from that reacting in way that you would not if you actually knew the truth about them.

    If you actually know the truth and act based on that truth then there is no issue, in and of that itself of course...


    So you're saying that every white man that sees a southern asia man walking down the road, even the ones wearing their traditional religious garments like Sikh's and Hindus do, they are assumed to be muslim because white men are inherently racist?
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    (Original post by Ezme39)
    So you are not talking about people who define themselves as muslim, you're talking about people that you define as muslim?
    Obviously. That's how everyone speaks ma'am if you have not noticed that yet

    When I say "apples are digusting" I actually mean "I think apples are disgusting" or "apples taste disgusting to me" but I don't say that because normally people would know what I mean. I don't mean "you are wrong if you do not think apples are disgusting because apples are objectively disgusting"...

    It's funny how many of the fundamental things of language are no longer obvious to people because of lazy we have got in how we speak in the modern world.

    (Original post by Newsout)
    So you're saying that every white man that sees a southern asia man walking down the road, even the ones wearing their traditional religious garments like Sikh's and Hindus do, they are assumed to be muslim because white men are inherently racist?
    That's exactly what I didn't say lol. seriously, did I say any of that? Maybe there were some typos but that's definitely not what I was meant to say. None of that...
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    (Original post by TorpidPhil)


    That's exactly what I didn't say lol. seriously, did I say any of that? Maybe there were some typos but that's definitely not what I was meant to say. None of that...


    So what then is your point?

    How can you be racist for criticising an ideology?


    Would you call people who criticise Mormonism or Scientology racist?
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    (Original post by Newsout)
    So what then is your point?

    How can you be racist for criticising an ideology?


    Would you call people who criticise Mormonism or Scientology racist?
    My point is that you CANNOT be racist for criticising an ideology.
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    (Original post by TorpidPhil)
    My point is that you CANNOT be racist for criticising an ideology.


    LOL, so why am I even arguing with you?
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    (Original post by Newsout)
    LOL, so why am I even arguing with you?
    I have no idea dude. That's why I was like wtf with your response earlier...

    Lol.
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    (Original post by TorpidPhil)
    Obviously. That's how everyone speaks ma'am if you have not noticed that yet

    When I say "apples are digusting" I actually mean "I think apples are disgusting" or "apples taste disgusting to me" but I don't say that because normally people would know what I mean. I don't mean "you are wrong if you do not think apples are disgusting because apples are objectively disgusting"...

    It's funny how many of the fundamental things of language are no longer obvious to people because of lazy we have got in how we speak in the modern world.
    Seems more like saying 'apples are disgusting' when you really mean 'these red apples are disgusting, and they represent all apples, because I don't consider green apples to be apples, even if they think that they are apples'
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    inb4 this "has nothing to do with Islam", "racist witchhunt"
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    (Original post by TorpidPhil)
    I have no idea dude. That's why I was like wtf with your response earlier...

    Lol.


    It's these liberals men.


    They make my head hurt with their utter STUPIDITY.


    "You're racist for criticising Islam"

    "Christians and guns are to blame for the orlando killing"

    "Islam is a religion of peace"


    Stuff like this make me wanna drink heavily.
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    (Original post by Newsout)
    It's these liberals men.


    They make my head hurt with their utter STUPIDITY.
    Sorry, yes, let's exclude a religion and squash it out - because THAT isn't stupid p.s. hate the argument, not the people - oh wait, that was my whole point
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    (Original post by Ezme39)
    So you are not talking about people who define themselves as muslim, you're talking about people that you define as muslim?



    Exactly, it's the motivation, not the religion. You have literally just stated my point.

    I did not argue with that. I am saying that you cannot class all people as the same; that's really not hard to understand either. Promoting positive youth groups among Islam etc can be a positive way of tackling these issues, for example, rather than further rejecting the community.



    I'll keep that in mind sir
    The problem with people like yourself, and I have to be blunt here, is that you still don't get it, you still think that cohesion is what is missing and will solve everything, when the fact of the matter is, on the whole, Muslims have never integrated well with others thought-out all of history, especially when they are in large numbers.

    The reason for this is that on the whole, Muslims chose not to integrate and on many issues, even if they did want to, cultures are often non-compatible between Muslims and various other groups.

    You may mean well with your "youth group" example, but on the whole, they achieve nothing, and the only way to at least stop the isolation from growing even more, is to reduce the numbers coming here, and ensuring that contact is required (for example ensuring that all government organisations only speak in English and don't provide translators)*.

    *They are just two examples.
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    (Original post by Ezme39)
    Seems more like saying 'apples are disgusting' when you really mean 'these red apples are disgusting, and they represent all apples, because I don't consider green apples to be apples, even if they think that they are apples'
    Not really since different apples don't taste THAT different from one another, right? I'm not an apple connoisseur.

    Ugh, you get me though lol. I'm done here. Have a night night ma'am
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    (Original post by Ezme39)
    Sorry, yes, let's exclude a religion and squash it out - because THAT isn't stupid p.s. hate the argument, not the people - oh wait, that was my whole point


    Or lets use our brains and realise that the religion is inherently violent.
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    F*ck this I'm going to Bed. I'm going ti engage in a deep deep prayer today with the true God. The God of Israel, to heal the world.Good night folks.
 
 
 
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