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How would a #Brexit affect UK universities? Watch

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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    I mean i have just given you about 5 questions including a link to another thread and you choose to quote 10 words at the end which is my summary of the previous 500 without addressing the actual content. There are good and bad on both sides yes.

    I have literally shown you Corbyn pre labour leader has spent years arguing against the EU how its bad for the common man. I have shown you very literal examples of big business getting away with near murder and abuse of their employees predominantly due to the fact they CAN because labour is in such high supply.
    There are also the present-day realities that I have to consider.

    It is almost certain that Post-Brexit will not be shaped by the left but by the hard right of the Tory party. This is not a UK I wish to see come to fruition. Less red-tape for Priti Patel means less employment protection for the common worker. Yes, the EU isn't perfect but a UK that would have been birthed from a hard-right power grab is not a place I'd like to live.

    edit: Of course you'll say that we can just vote them out in 5 years but when it comes to trade deals, re-negotiating terms every time you switch government isn't conducive to a stable economy. In any case, I'm yet to see what the Leave campaign can actually offer in terms of trade deals outside of the EU. The Tories who battled EU tariffs to protect the steel industry are the ones now saying that they'll negotiate deals to help the British worker.
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    (Original post by looseseal)
    France, The Netherlands and Germany all contribute a greater proportion of their GNI to the EU than us yet they still manage to fund scientific research to a greater degree than the UK. This is not an EU issue, this is a UK government issue.

    And I reiterate my point. Fiscal conservatives. These are the very same people who voted to unnecessarily cut disability benefits and working tax credits. I severely doubt the veracity of their claims that in a post-Brexit UK they'll suddenly become free-spending adherents of Keynes.
    That is still not a good enough reason for not to Vote Leave.

    £300 million pounds is paid for EU membership. That's enough to build a new NHS hospital every week. We get less than half of this money back, and we have no control over how it's spent- That is decided by politicians and officials in Brussels, not by the people we elect.

    If we leave, we will regain our stock prices because we will no longer be paying £280 million pounds a week. We will be able to invest in more businesses, universities and be able to create more jobs and also be able to improve our country. We will also be able to make new trade arrangements with other countries. We will also no longer have to impose the Common External Tariff on imports thus making food much cheaper, get our fishing grounds back and regain the power to make our own free trade agreements.

    Please dont fall for the EU funded media, politicians, bankers, etc. Make your decision on the true facts of the Vote Leave campaign.
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    (Original post by Naveed-7)
    That is still not a good enough reason for not to Vote Leave.

    £300 million pounds is paid for EU membership. That's enough to build a new NHS hospital every week. We get less than half of this money back, and we have no control over how it's spent- That is decided by politicians and officials in Brussels, not by the people we elect.

    If we leave, we will regain our stock prices because we will no longer be paying £280 million pounds a week. We will be able to invest in more businesses, universities and be able to create more jobs and also be able to improve our country. We will also be able to make new trade arrangements with other countries. We will also no longer have to impose the Common External Tariff on imports thus making food much cheaper, get our fishing grounds back and regain the power to make our own free trade agreements.

    Please dont fall for the EU funded media, politicians, bankers, etc. Make your decision on the true facts of the Vote Leave campaign.
    This is such a simplistic analysis that it actually hurts.

    I thought us on the left were idealistic but this EU referendum has certainly showed me we're not the only ones who can be naive to the harsh realities of real life.
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    (Original post by looseseal)
    There are also the present-day realities that I have to consider.

    It is almost certain that Post-Brexit will not be shaped by the left but by the hard right of the Tory party. This is not a UK I wish to see come to fruition. Less red-tape for Priti Patel means less employment protection for the common worker. Yes, the EU isn't perfect but a UK that would have been birthed from a hard-right power grab is not a place I'd like to live.

    edit: Of course you'll say that we can just vote them out in 5 years but when it comes to trade deals, re-negotiating terms every time you switch government isn't conducive to a stable economy. In any case, I'm yet to see what Leave campaign can actually offer in terms of trade deals outside of the EU. The Tories who battled EU tariffs to protect the steel industry are the ones now saying that they'll negotiate deals to help the British worker.
    High immigration, very high EU membership payments.. are also less protection for the common worker.
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    (Original post by looseseal)
    There are also the present-day realities that I have to consider.

    It is almost certain that Post-Brexit will not be shaped by the left but by the hard right of the Tory party. This is not a UK I wish to see come to fruition. Less red-tape for Priti Patel means less employment protection for the common worker. Yes, the EU isn't perfect but a UK that would have been birthed from a hard-right power grab is not a place I'd like to live.
    How is it almost certain?? You understand the country will have a general election in early 2020? So post brexit Priti patel will get enough support in house of commons to pass a load of draconian measures onto the working population??
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    (Original post by Naveed-7)
    High immigration, very high EU membership payments.. are also less protection for the common worker.
    We have full control over non-EU immigration yet it's still higher (or at least around the same amount) than EU immigration. If we actually wanted to reduce the number of unskilled workers coming into the UK we could. Obviously not to the same extent that would be possible outside of the EU free movement directive but definitely to a lower number than we have now.

    Also, high EU membership payments in comparison to what? "High" is an extremely subjective term.
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    Less *****y foreign students, especially those that inherit tax money and never repay it. Less *****y universities will be fattened by the bloated foreign diaspora matriculating there. More specialised universities due to lack of a tax-corpulent system. Vivacious institutes will sanctify themselves of poor students (grade-wise) due to a lack of immoderate competition.

    Basically, the extent of **** universties we have will lessen, a good thing. Good universities will thrive. A good thing.

    If you're annoyed by this, it's likely that you're too stupid to get the grades for a good university, in which case, you should think about a trade rather than demean the entire structure for others on your vainglorious idealism of ego.
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    How is it almost certain?? You understand the country will have a general election in early 2020? So post brexit Priti patel will get enough support in house of commons to pass a load of draconian measures onto the working population??
    It depends who leads the Tories post-Brexit but the majority of the out MPs aren't exactly known for their championing of worker's rights. Also, in the case of a Brexit, the Tories will rally around whoever secedes David Cameron. It would be pure folly not to considering they do still have a majority. 4 years is an extremely long time to put "draconian" measures in place considering the fact the Tories almost managed to stealth privatise the education system (look up the numerous financial abuses by academy chains) in the space of a few years.
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    (Original post by looseseal)
    It depends who leads the Tories post-Brexit but the majority of the out MPs aren't exactly known for their championing of worker's rights. Also, in the case of a Brexit, the Tories will rally around whoever secedes David Cameron. It would be pure folly not to considering they do still have a majority. 4 years is an extremely long time to put "draconian" measures in place considering the fact the Tories almost managed to stealth privatise the education system (look up the numerous financial abuses by academy chains) in the space of a few years.
    They aren't known for their watering down of worker's rights either

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Scientists: the pinnacle of political knowledge and skill
    Well, they tend to certainly be one of the pinnacles of intellect. Also, political scientists exist, so, yeah.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    They aren't known for their watering down of worker's rights either

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    Well it's very rare that the hard-right of the Tory party has had any considerable power. As with the Labour party, it's mostly been the more centrist MPs being elected to government. On the notable occasion that a centrist Tory didn't get elected to power (Thatcher)... Well let's ask the unions how her premiership went for them...
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    (Original post by AntisthenesDogger)
    Less *****y foreign students, especially those that inherit tax money and never repay it. Less *****y universities will be fattened by the bloated foreign diaspora matriculating there. More specialised universities due to lack of a tax-corpulent system. Vivacious institutes will sanctify themselves of poor students (grade-wise) due to a lack of immoderate competition.

    Basically, the extent of **** universties we have will lessen, a good thing. Good universities will thrive. A good thing.

    If you're annoyed by this, it's likely that you're too stupid to get the grades for a good university, in which case, you should think about a trade rather than demean the entire structure for others on your vainglorious idealism of ego.
    I've got offers from great unis and am very likely to get the grades, and I'm annoyed by this.
    This so many people who think they 'know' how things are going to play out.
    You have absolutely no idea - almost nobody on here has any, real, concentrate, idea of what will happen, that isn't based on pure conjecture or bias.
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    No idea really. Maybe some loss in funding?
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    (Original post by WhisperingTide)
    I've got offers from great unis and am very likely to get the grades, and I'm annoyed by this.
    This so many people who think they 'know' how things are going to play out.
    You have absolutely no idea - almost nobody on here has any, real, concentrate, idea of what will happen, that isn't based on pure conjecture or bias.
    Less foreign students stealing away tax-money and saturating poor Universities. That will definitely stop occurring. So, yes. We can know that.
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    (Original post by looseseal)
    It depends who leads the Tories post-Brexit but the majority of the out MPs aren't exactly known for their championing of worker's rights. Also, in the case of a Brexit, the Tories will rally around whoever secedes David Cameron. It would be pure folly not to considering they do still have a majority. 4 years is an extremely long time to put "draconian" measures in place considering the fact the Tories almost managed to stealth privatise the education system (look up the numerous financial abuses by academy chains) in the space of a few years.
    I just think its crazy that so many people are being so shortsighted and fearful of what the tories may or may not do. Its rejecting democracy because you dont trust the people to vote correctly and ignores the fact that you dont know what the EU will impose in the coming years either. Why have the tories not scaled down a bunch of workers rights to the EU minimum? Why have they not cut maternity leave from our current 52 weeks to the EU minimum 14 weeks?

    At the minute i just see a huge amount of people who have decided "Better the devil you know" which is the most defeatist and depressing outlook you could imagine and whats worse is its held by so many young people.
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    (Original post by WhisperingTide)
    This so many people who think they 'know' how things are going to play out.
    You have absolutely no idea - almost nobody on here has any, real, concentrate, idea of what will happen, that isn't based on pure conjecture or bias.
    This of the crux of it. As a result of the lack of post-Brexit contigency plans by Cameron (for obvious reasons), the Leave campaign have literally been able to say anything and everything in regards to how the UK would look like outside of the EU.

    Literally the only certainty we have is that we'll be able to control EU immigration - and that may not even be much of a forgone conclusion if we want access to the EU single market.

    Additionally, people talking of the UK using WTO trade tariffs if we're unable to successfully negotiate with the EU don't realise that their tariff legislations are very light on the services sector (which makes up the majority of our exports). As such, we could face pretty prohibitive tariffs from the EU if we do decide to leave. I'm sure Germany would love nothing better than for the LSE to move the majority of their operations to Frankfurt.
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    (Original post by looseseal)
    Also as someone who actually works in academia, I can tell you that Brexit is definitely not a well-supported idea.

    As many posters have said previously, when it comes to government funding for scientific research in universities, the UK lags well behind many western countries. Organisations such as the EPSRC would almost certainly be facing a funding deficit if we left the EU. Areas like Physics and Maths are already struggling significantly in terms of bringing in money for post-graduate research and I have very little confidence that a post-Brexit government would do very much assuage those issues.

    The "£350million a week" has already been promised to every man and woman under the sun in our post-Brexit utopia. Yet the people proposing these free-spending policies have spent a significant proportion of their political careers being fiscal conservatives. Something quite clearly does not add up.
    Very well said.
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    Universities will get more funding if we leave the EU.

    Nowadays, most people get low wages. That is more important. If we leave the EU, we will not have to pay £280 million every month, and we can instead use it to fix our own country, and that includes universities.

    That makes sense. Period. You have lost the argument. You lost the argument ages ago. End of.
    You remain supporters are arrogant and in denial.
    You want to put your country's democracy, large sums of money, border control and security on the line, just because of 1 or 2 incorrect british members? Your lost in the head.
    Vote Leave.
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    (Original post by Naveed-7)
    Universities will get more funding if we leave the EU.

    Nowadays, most people get low wages. That is more important. If we leave the EU, we will not have to pay £280 million every month, and we can instead use it to fix our own country, and that includes universities.

    That makes sense. Period. You have lost the argument. You lost the argument ages ago. End of.
    You remain supporters are arrogant and in denial.
    You want to put your country's democracy, large sums of money, border control and security on the line, just because of 1 or 2 incorrect british members? Your lost in the head.
    Vote Leave.
    *sigh* do you really think the alleged 280 million pounds will go to the NHS or funding universities? we've clearly seen that those things are not priorities for the current government.

    the fact is that you dont know how they will be spent. the remain argument that crushes all leave arguments is that you have no basis for your claims. you have no data to back up anything you say. thats why you resort to hypothetical numbers and spread misinformation.

    we have academics, powerful politicians, CEO's, and leading economists on our side.

    you have bojo, nigel farage, and The Sun.

    i understand where the leave campaign gets its momentum though. it's a lot easier to complain and promise drastic change, than to consistently back up your claims, as Remain have done since the start, with facts and figures.

    the facts show that it is a lot more complicated and any promise of drastic change is a massive lie.
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    (Original post by looseseal)
    Well it's very rare that the hard-right of the Tory party has had any considerable power. As with the Labour party, it's mostly been the more centrist MPs being elected to government. On the notable occasion that a centrist Tory didn't get elected to power (Thatcher)... Well let's ask the unions how her premiership went for them...
    I propose you also ask the people, rather than those with vested interests in keeping the unions able to bring down ELECTED governments, they seemed to quite like the unions being brought into line. Not having unions setting the agenda is not a lack of workers rights.

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