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The extremist culture that led to the murder of Jo Cox Watch

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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Agreed. There has been a huge increase in death and rape threats in the last year from both the hard right and hard left. Was only a matter of time.

    Dark, dark day in British politics. Social democracy is losing, far right and far left extremism is winning.

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    Are you sure that people aren't overhyping rape and death threats for attention? I mean, there is a value to having the moral high ground and the victim status. I mean, there was an article on an MP which said she received 600 rape threats when she received 0.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-bullying.html

    https://youtu.be/6oS6057tEiU?t=1m24s
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    (Original post by Trapz99)
    We do not know for sure why this attack happened. Ir is likely to just be a mentally unstable lone wolf, nothing terrorist-related, imo.
    the killer said "put Britain first" , meaning, not refugees first

    and if Syrian refugees had raped your 8 old daughter, you would agree with him
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    (Original post by Wōden)
    I would think not, considering he apparently fired several shots. A single shot firearm is relatively easy to improvise, but a repeating one is more complicated, beyond the engineering skills of the average person. Besides, some witnesses have said it looked like an old WW1 pistol.
    Revolver.

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    (Original post by Noodle0)
    The attack had no political motive according to the attackers neighbours. http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016...rope-politics/
    Exactly how would that neighbour know if he had a political motive? You think far right crazies go around saying "I'm a Nazi"? He ordered hundreds of pounds worth of Nazi literature from America.

    Why are you trying to defend and obfuscate that with such obvious dishonesty?

    It has absolutely nothing to do with the EU referendum leave campaign.
    I never said it did. Why would you associate the leave campaign with Nazis? Hmmm
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    (Original post by Wōden)
    I would think not, considering he apparently fired several shots. A single shot firearm is relatively easy to improvise, but a repeating one is more complicated, beyond the engineering skills of the average person. Besides, some witnesses have said it looked like an old WW1 pistol.
    You don't know much about firearms, do you? A single shot firearm can easily be reloaded. I grew up with a single shot .22lr rifle and I could reload that in around a second. Fire, pull open the bolt, place the round in, close the bolt. Very simple and quick.

    The witness said there was about four to five seconds between shots. He also specifically used the word homemade, I commented about that yesterday on reddit saying "Thank goodness he only had a shoddy, homemade firearm". That was long before these SPLC documents were released.

    With the sort of firearm shown in the SPLC document, once you fire it you pull back the bare firing pin, pull the cartridge out with your fingernail, push another one in, close the mechanism and fire again

    DiddyDec


    But none of that really matters because it's so laughable that far right members on this board are trying to discredit those documents by saying he had a different gun. The receipt proves the Nazi literature went to his name at his address.
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    (Original post by Thutmose-III)
    You don't know much about firearms, do you? A single shot firearm can easily be reloaded. I grew up with a single shot .22lr rifle and I could reload that in around a second. Fire, pull open the bolt, place the round in, close the bolt. Very simple and quick.

    The witness said there was about four to five seconds between shots. He also specifically used the word homemade, I commented about that yesterday on reddit saying "Thank goodness he only had a shoddy, homemade firearm". That was long before these SPLC documents were released.

    With the sort of firearm shown in the SPLC document, once you fire it you pull back the bare firing pin, pull the cartridge out with your fingernail, push another one in, close the mechanism and fire again

    DiddyDec


    But none of that really matters because it's so laughable that far right members on this board are trying to discredit those documents by saying he had a different gun. The receipt proves the Nazi literature went to his name at his address.
    What is funny is you think I'm far right.

    Is questioning evidence a far right agenda?

    I'm discrediting anything, I'm merely saying I don't think that homemade weapon documented was used. Also I don't see why using a homemade weapon is some how better than a normal one. The potential damage at point blank would be the same, especially considering that the most common round in the UK is a 12 bore.
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    (Original post by Thutmose-III)
    You don't know much about firearms, do you? A single shot firearm can easily be reloaded. I grew up with a single shot .22lr rifle and I could reload that in around a second. Fire, pull open the bolt, place the round in, close the bolt. Very simple and quick.

    The witness said there was about four to five seconds between shots. He also specifically used the word homemade, I commented about that yesterday on reddit saying "Thank goodness he only had a shoddy, homemade firearm". That was long before these SPLC documents were released.

    With the sort of firearm shown in the SPLC document, once you fire it you pull back the bare firing pin, pull the cartridge out with your fingernail, push another one in, close the mechanism and fire again

    DiddyDec


    But none of that really matters because it's so laughable that far right members on this board are trying to discredit those documents by saying he had a different gun. The receipt proves the Nazi literature went to his name at his address.
    I wasn't trying to discredit anything, I have no horse in this race, I was simply trying to make some sense of the event as it happened. I wrote that comment long before any of these neo-nazi and homemade gun documents came to light. At the time, some of the early reports I saw implied he had fired several shots in rapid succession, which to me suggested a semi-automatic pistol or revolver. In light of this recent evidence, it seems I may have been wrong about that and it may well have been homemade. We will have to wait and see I guess.

    Not that it really matters one way or the other. Homemade or not, it doesn't change the fact that a woman is now dead thanks to the actions of this *******.
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    (Original post by Thutmose-III)
    Funnily enough I think it's almost the opposite. The sort-of low church, evangelical conservatism that traditionally constitutes much of the Tory Party are the sort of people who wouldn't be seen dead at a Britain First meeting. Britain First have no religious agenda, in that sense they are secular.

    Of course there are many sane people on the right who do not agree with this; I qualified my remarks as referring to the far right and far left.
    True, but There's still the issue of which far right you're talking about. There's the far secular right and then there's the far religious right.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Cameron's opened the magic fascist box .. to exploit working class people's anger during .. the growing disparity of wealth and interests
    What you're essentially saying is:

    The British populace can't be trusted to exercise direct Democracy on an hitherto un-mandated question of unparalleled constitutional/social/economic significance without frustrations relating (solely) to (endogenous) economic inequality somehow being distorted by mainstream political figures such that an entire class is suddenly transformed into a raving hoard of rabid Nazis, out for blood

    Your demonstrable fear, diffidence, illogicality, counter-progressivism, and contempt for the common, working man is reminiscent of David Mitchell's EU diatribe. We have the (hard-won) rights of free speech and self-determination, and have every right to voice/debate our concerns with respect to individuals/institutions that seek to curtail both such freedoms e.g. the EU/certain migrant groups/'one world' idealists/egocentrics who fall foul of injurious myopia/treacherous apathy e.g. in the context of a desire to further their own personal/tribal agendas

    Futhermore, if you abase such political dialogue you fuel resentment, with extremism and atrocities like this a corollary; plainly, that is neither wise nor, indeed, genuinely progressive (i.e. consistent with political pluralism). I hold the same view with regard to Islamism vs. criticism of Western interventionism, btw; Maajid Nawaz is wrong to think that it is acceptable/fruitful to seek to "control the narrative", and I've told him as much myself
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    (Original post by Thutmose-III)
    When you shout "Breaking point" over and over again, you don’t get to be surprised when someone breaks. When you present politics as a matter of life and death, as a question of national survival, don’t be surprised if someone takes you at your word. You didn’t make them do it, no, but you didn’t do much to stop it either.

    Sometimes rhetoric has consequences. If you spend days, weeks, months, years telling people they are under threat, that their country has been stolen from them, that they have been betrayed and sold down the river, that their birthright has been pilfered, that their problem is they’re too slow to realise any of this is happening, that their problem is they’re not sufficiently mad as hell, then at some point, in some place, something or someone is going to snap. And then something terrible is going to happen.
    This Spectator article does not engage with the truth of those claims. If those claims are true and the response proposed is that no one be allowed to talk about them for fear of possible consequences then we are living in East Germany. It amounts to the abolition of democracy.

    Worse, it's selective. No one said after the London Riots that Labour should not be allowed to talk about income inequality any more, because clearly it inflames and justifies violence.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Well said! It is exactly this atmosphere of hate that has been engendered by people like Farage and Boris that has created the conditions for this murder.

    Things are going to get worse too - there will be more.

    Cameron doesn't know what he's doing - he's opened the magic fascist box and out of it are pouring the rag tag army of sleazy creeps that lie in wait to exploit working class people's anger during a deep and prolonged recessionary situation and the growing disparity of wealth and interests between the poor and the rich.
    Wow. "Farage and Boris encourage hate, they enabled this to happen." Do you have any idea how stupid that idea is? Have you never heard what they actually say & do? They do/say nothing of the sort. Using a woman's death to fuel hatred of two others who're completely unrelated to the attack is just disgusting.
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    (Original post by Chakede)
    becuase she was a Prominent Remain campaginer and he shouted Britain first before shooting her in cold blood.
    She was not a prominent Remain campaigner. Practically no one in the general public had heard of her before she was assassinated.

    She was one of the few MPs in favour of admitting lots of refugees from Syria and one of the most staunchly in favour of doing so. I suspect that is why she was shot.

    Bear in mind that obsessive political extremists rarely take their goals and worldview from the morning news. They have a few issues they care about that they have stewed over for many years. Shooting her now is obviously a terrible move for someone who wanted Brexit to happen, doing no real damage to Remain while giving them a lot of reflected emotional sympathy. It might even swing them the victory just as their campaign was beginning to disintegrate. If it was about Brexit, it doesn't make sense full stop. If it was about Syria, there's no reason he couldn't have waited until after the referendum and shot her then. Most likely he wasn't thinking about the referendum campaign at all.
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    (Original post by Peroxidation)
    Wow. "Farage and Boris encourage hate, they enabled this to happen." Do you have any idea how stupid that idea is? Have you never heard what they actually say & do? They do/say nothing of the sort. Using a woman's death to fuel hatred of two others who're completely unrelated to the attack is just disgusting.
    not so different from your rhetoric of "islam made this man kill, bla bla bla"
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Well said! It is exactly this atmosphere of hate that has been engendered by people like Farage and Boris that has created the conditions for this murder.

    Things are going to get worse too - there will be more.

    Cameron doesn't know what he's doing - he's opened the magic fascist box and out of it are pouring the rag tag army of sleazy creeps that lie in wait to exploit working class people's anger during a deep and prolonged recessionary situation and the growing disparity of wealth and interests between the poor and the rich.
    When Muslims blow people up you say that it is the fault of society for upsetting them.

    When the far right - and neither Boris nor Farage are part of the far right, this fellow's reading list was pro-Apartheid literature not a best-selling biography of Churchill - shoots someone you say that it is the fault of society for allowing the far right to exist at all.

    Which is it? If attacks should result in the suppression of the culture of the attackers (which isn't wholly unreasonable of course) then we also need to suppress Islam. For that matter, we need to suppress your own class war rhetoric which has inspired millions of political murders.
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    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    not so different from your rhetoric of "islam made this man kill, bla bla bla"
    My "Islam made him kill" rhetoric? That's completely different. The Qu'ran contains verses which quite clearly tell their readers to kill people. Most muslims aren't idiots so they don't act on it, but some do and that's why we get Islamic terrorist attacks. Since the ideology is what actually made the person commit the offense, the ideology is just as responsible as the person. In this case neither Farage or Johnson caused the man to do this, so they're totally unrelated to the attack.
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    (Original post by Peroxidation)
    My "Islam made him kill" rhetoric? That's completely different. The Qu'ran contains verses which quite clearly tell their readers to kill people. Most muslims aren't idiots so they don't act on it, but some do and that's why we get Islamic terrorist attacks. Since the ideology is what actually made the person commit the offense, the ideology is just as responsible as the person. In this case neither Farage or Johnson caused the man to do this, so they're totally unrelated to the attack.
    Right wing politics nowadays seems to paint liberals/lefties as 'destroying British society'

    I don't see how a patriotic Brit is any different from one of these radical Muslims you always criticise
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    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    Right wing politics nowadays seems to paint liberals/lefties as 'destroying British society'

    I don't see how a patriotic Brit is any different from one of these radical Muslims you always criticise
    Well each to their own.
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    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    Right wing politics nowadays seems to paint liberals/lefties as 'destroying British society'

    I don't see how a patriotic Brit is any different from one of these radical Muslims you always criticise
    The difference is they're against destroying British society.

    This man is certainly a murderer and probably also a terrorist but he probably isn't also a traitor, unlike a British citizen who murders a British soldier to try to bring about the defeat of the British army in a foreign country.

    There is some difference, and the latter is in fact worse.
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    (Original post by Observatory)
    The difference is they're against destroying British society.

    This man is certainly a murderer and probably also a terrorist but he probably isn't also a traitor, unlike a British citizen who murders a British soldier to try to bring about the defeat of the British army in a foreign country.

    There is some difference, and the latter is in fact worse.
    YEh because murdering an elected member of Parliament isn't an attack on the societal views of Britain.

    hahaha. I love how the nut job Right wing will try to justify anything.
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    YEh because murdering an elected member of Parliament isn't an attack on the societal views of Britain.

    hahaha. I love how the nut job Right wing will try to justify anything.
    What I have said no more justifies what he did than saying it is worse to murder five than three people justifies murdering three people.
 
 
 
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