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Bill Gates says Brexit would make Britain ‘significantly less attractive Watch

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    (Original post by Daddy Longlegz)
    and there it is.
    Good selective quoting to ignore the point there. I didn't say the average voter is a drooling simpleton. As I actually said, IF people are genuinely not bothered about causing another recession with the last one being so destructive and so recent, then maybe people are right to talk down to the average man on the street, because that average man on the street has either a really short memory or is just a bit stupid - because no-one should be not bothered about crashing the economy.

    If they're arguing that short term pain is an acceptable bullet to bite for long term gain, that they are concerned about the recession but are more concerned about how well the UK will come out of it then fair enough; but to not actually care if the economy tanks it, when it so negatively affects everyone? Ridiculously short sighted.
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    A friend of mine has just been hired as a researcher by microsoft and he ge got told that his job will go if we leave the EU, our access to european research bodies makes us key to a lot of western scientific study. That goes, so does the interest in us.
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    (Original post by 34908seikj)
    There's a reason why "It is rampant with red tape and protectionism" though, y' know what happens when **** gets a little to deregulated?? *Cough 2008 cough*

    Also you haven't actually said why deregulation is better than "protectionism"... or why "protectionism" is bad...
    Are you unironically trying to claim deregulation caused the 2008 crash
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    Who cares?
    Better than seeing women raped on the streets like they are in Germany.

    Btw I'm sorry if fact offends you


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    (Original post by Daddy Longlegz)
    The £350m per week meme is clearly simplistic, but it's concrete, definite and feels eyewatering when the government announces cuts. When the IFS bangs on about leave causing a recession, nobody cares, at all, maybe wealthy people in London, economists. Nobody else.
    So what on earth are we supposed to do? If you're suggesting to me that voters are incapable of thinking rationally by voting for something which is very obviously bad for them, the only conclusion I can draw from this is that the referendum shouldn't be happening in the first place (which I'd agree with).
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    (Original post by EuanF)
    Are you unironically trying to claim deregulation caused the 2008 crash
    But it was. A failure regulate the financial markets is what caused it.
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    (Original post by Jebedee)
    Another globalist. Of course he benefits from the EU.
    Business is business. Investors are investors. They don't do the business for fun. UK is like a souvenir in a gift shop. If it's less attractive, who still wants to buy it?

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    Lol this entire referendum is a joke I can summarise it like so (as a biased leave supporter I must add):

    1) Emotional arguments from remain "ooo boo hoo we r bettur wurking togethr" , "yes but we r betr cuz i can do a gap yah for free (erasmus lol)"
    2) "I can't believe you don't want immigration to happen / you are a raging BNP racist islamophobic twit" yet this is ironic as we discriminate against commonwealth countries in this respect - the irony is unbearable
    3) The economic benefits - both side seem to throw out figures - not a clue what to believe
    4) A government which spends tax payers money persuading us to remain
    5) Makes me lol how few people can identify key members of the EU commission despite their "ehh ma gad we have acheeved so much together wiv all de other coutnries"
    6) TTIP - how about we just don't listen to America's voice on this whole referendum?
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    Remember, this is a fight between the people and the establishment, they'll cart out all their servants to try and persuade
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    (Original post by 34908seikj)
    But it was. A failure regulate the financial markets is what caused it.
    You don't understand what deregulation is, do you?

    Vote leave pal
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    (Original post by EuanF)
    You don't understand what deregulation is, do you?

    Vote leave pal
    A failure in regulation implies there wasn't enough regulation..?
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    (Original post by 34908seikj)
    There's a reason why "It is rampant with red tape and protectionism" though, y' know what happens when **** gets a little to deregulated?? *Cough 2008 cough*

    Also you haven't actually said why deregulation is better than "protectionism"... or why "protectionism" is bad...
    2008 happened because we are so dependant on the EU and america. the problems started in america and we ended up as the victims along with them because of our depedancy. Im not supporting leave but please get your facts right
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    (Original post by TooFocused)
    Lol this entire referendum is a joke I can summarise it like so (as a biased leave supporter I must add):

    1) Emotional arguments from remain "ooo boo hoo we r bettur wurking togethr" , "yes but we r betr cuz i can do a gap yah for free (erasmus lol)"
    2) "I can't believe you don't want immigration to happen / you are a raging BNP racist islamophobic twit" yet this is ironic as we discriminate against commonwealth countries in this respect - the irony is unbearable
    3) The economic benefits - both side seem to throw out figures - not a clue what to believe
    4) A government which spends tax payers money persuading us to remain
    5) Makes me lol how few people can identify key members of the EU commission despite their "ehh ma gad we have acheeved so much together wiv all de other coutnries"
    6) TTIP - how about we just don't listen to America's voice on this whole referendum?
    Make your own decision. Of course we have no real idea of whats going to happen after the referendum. It can open more doors in the long term but there will be uncertainty in the short term as once we leave we dont really know whats gonna happen. These facts both sides are throwing arent even facts most of the time... like the guy above.
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    (Original post by ByEeek)
    I don't really understand this democracy argument. Every 5 years or so, Rupert Murdoch tells us all who to vote for and then precedes to tell those politicians how to run the country for the next 5 years. We are hardly the model of a good democracy. At least MEPs are proportionally elected.
    So what mechanism do we have to remove the upper echelons of the EU? I have not been informed of any.
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    (Original post by Jebedee)
    So what mechanism do we have to remove the upper echelons of the EU? I have not been informed of any.
    I don't want the upper echelons of the EU removed. From where I sit, the majority of the stuff coming out of the EU is of benefit to me personally, specifically human rights and workers rights. Leave politicians argue that we could implement our own version of these directives, but when the home secretary is hell bent on getting ISPs to spy on our every moves and a work and pensions minister eroding workers rights left, right and centre I actually have more trust and faith in the EU at looking after our rights than those of our own leaders.

    The trouble with the leave argument for me is that it is rather vague and non-specific. We don't like red tape, but no one seems to be able to tell me even on rule that is hampering business. We hate immigration from the EU yet seem unable to tackle the immigration we can control. We want sovereignty from the EU but there is no mention of what we would actually do with that sovereignty, just that we should have it which feels a bit like obtaining a winning lottery ticket and hiding it under the mattress.

    The EU isn't perfect, but it isn't exactly overwhelming either - especially to the man on the street. We only feel a democratic deficit because we are told that is what there is. We only feel Germany is in control because we are told so. No one can actually produce any evidence to back up this emotive rhetoric.
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    (Original post by ByEeek)
    I don't want the upper echelons of the EU removed. From where I sit, the majority of the stuff coming out of the EU is of benefit to me personally, specifically human rights and workers rights. Leave politicians argue that we could implement our own version of these directives, but when the home secretary is hell bent on getting ISPs to spy on our every moves and a work and pensions minister eroding workers rights left, right and centre I actually have more trust and faith in the EU at looking after our rights than those of our own leaders.

    The trouble with the leave argument for me is that it is rather vague and non-specific. We don't like red tape, but no one seems to be able to tell me even on rule that is hampering business. We hate immigration from the EU yet seem unable to tackle the immigration we can control. We want sovereignty from the EU but there is no mention of what we would actually do with that sovereignty, just that we should have it which feels a bit like obtaining a winning lottery ticket and hiding it under the mattress.

    The EU isn't perfect, but it isn't exactly overwhelming either - especially to the man on the street. We only feel a democratic deficit because we are told that is what there is. We only feel Germany is in control because we are told so. No one can actually produce any evidence to back up this emotive rhetoric.
    Fair enough, but what if you do feel the need at some point in the future. Do you trust these unknown quantities that much with your future and are you so easily bought off with trinkets? If they get their hands on an EU army to enforce their will I think you will be seeing a much different side to these leaders and as you've already agreed on a system without a method of their removal. This can only go one way.

    You won't hear any policies from the conservatives in the event of leave until after the referendum, as the establishment is heavily backing remain at all costs and their biggest ace in the hole is economic and political uncertainty, which they can only play by being very vague about policies post-leave.

    No you're right, a layman can go about his day and stay blissfully ignorant and watch his freedoms slowly get eroded over time. I'm not going to explain the importance of sovereignty. That's why we have history books.
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    Can never have enough hypocritical money bags or foreigners telling me my desire for democratic accountability and some national interest/not going down with the EU is wrong. Thank you Bill Gates for jumping on an over-crowded bandwagon, you;ve helped sway me to subverting myself and the UK to the interests of everyone but those of us who live here.
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    (Original post by Jebedee)
    If they get their hands on an EU army to enforce their will I think you will be seeing a much different side to these leaders and as you've already agreed on a system without a method of their removal. This can only go one way.
    But again - what is so terrible about a European army? I mean seriously. Given that the UK was a founding nation of the European alliance after WW2, do we really feel threatened by a joint army in the EU? Really? Honestly?

    And for a bit of context, just look at the absolute shash up our good old UK policy / army have done to the world. In recent times we have screwed up Iraq, had a major part in screwing up Afghanistan and decidedly screwed up Libya. And that is to say nothing of some of the decisions we made when relinquishing our former colonies. If there is one thing the world really doesn't need, it is the British army controlled by British politicians.

    And when you say "They" as in the EU, surely that includes us. We are the EU. It isn't them and us, it is simply the club, whom we are influential members.
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    (Original post by ByEeek)
    But again - what is so terrible about a European army? I mean seriously. Given that the UK was a founding nation of the European alliance after WW2, do we really feel threatened by a joint army in the EU? Really? Honestly?

    And for a bit of context, just look at the absolute shash up our good old UK policy / army have done to the world. In recent times we have screwed up Iraq, had a major part in screwing up Afghanistan and decidedly screwed up Libya. And that is to say nothing of some of the decisions we made when relinquishing our former colonies. If there is one thing the world really doesn't need, it is the British army controlled by British politicians.

    And when you say "They" as in the EU, surely that includes us. We are the EU. It isn't them and us, it is simply the club, whom we are influential members.
    It is irrelevant if you feel we are a founding nation of the EU because it only matters how much power we have in it, which is almost none. Certainly not in line with the amount of wealth we bring it.

    Yes they screwed up and we were able to express our anger at them at election time, a luxury we don't have when it comes to the EU.

    I say they as in the ones who hold the power within the EU, which is not us.
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    (Original post by Jebedee)
    It is irrelevant if you feel we are a founding nation of the EU because it only matters how much power we have in it, which is almost none. Certainly not in line with the amount of wealth we bring it.

    Yes they screwed up and we were able to express our anger at them at election time, a luxury we don't have when it comes to the EU.

    I say they as in the ones who hold the power within the EU, which is not us.
    Really? We're second only to Germany in terms of MEP seats. As for power, the UK is on the winning side in the vast majority of the votes in the european parliament.
 
 
 
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