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    (Original post by tanyapotter)
    He most definitely did not murder Jo Cox because he was annoyed about mental health cuts. I am annoyed about mental health cuts. I don't kill people because of it.
    Your reasoning is retarded.

    Just because you wouldn't kill because of it doesn't mean others won't.
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    Don't generalise racists - only 0.001% of racists are terrorists

    The majority of people in the world admit to having racial prejudices - if racism was so bad, we'd all be dead by now

    Its because of this alienation that they resort to these attacks
    Is this supposed to be an argument for legitimisation of racism insofar we ought to accept/not alienate racists who express their prejudice in public discourse? How absurd. Perhaps you should start new Twitter trends:

    #NotAllRacists
    #RightToDiscriminate
    #RacismIsNatural

    Aw, you poor racists! Please tell us more about the alienation and condemnation you're subjected to by the evil egalitarians!
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    (Original post by blah3210)
    Is this supposed to be an argument for legitimisation of racism insofar we ought to accept/not alienate racists who express their prejudice in public discourse? How absurd. Perhaps you should start new Twitter trends:

    #NotAllRacists
    #RightToDiscriminate
    #RacismIsNatural
    Do you not recognise the arguments?

    #NotAllMuslims
    #RightToReligion
    #HomophobiaAndSexismIsNotOnlyNat uralItIsAllah'sWill
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    Do you not recognise the arguments?

    #NotAllMuslims
    #RightToReligion
    #HomophobiaAndSexismIsNotOnlyNat uralItIsAllah'sWill
    It's difficult to spot satire over the internet I believe :holmes:
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    One radical solution would be to stop the teaching of the Nazis, and purge every mention of them from historical records

    Yes, we wouldn't have the benefit of 'learning from the past', but there will always be a minority of people who like the idea of the Nazis, and are inspired by the Holocaust - and these are the people we are worried about; we would stop giving them ideas this way, and they'd likely end up committing petty crimes instead of terrorism
    I guess this makes sense but sadly most of the Nazis ideas weren't original to them so if these twisted people don't get their inspiration from the Nazis they would simply turn to something else and we can't do anything about this unless we find a way to wipe out human history.
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    Do you not recognise the arguments?

    #NotAllMuslims
    #RightToReligion
    #HomophobiaAndSexismIsNotOnlyNat uralItIsAllah'sWill
    White Supremacy of Peace
    Only the tiniest minority of Neo-Nazis are racist and dangerous
    It was the security services who radicalised him
    We provoked him when we bombed Nazi Germany
    Such a good boy



    For clarity Neo-Nazi politics disgusts me especially this heartbreaking attack, but our collective reaction to this awful incident and that in Orlando is so different even though both incidents represent the same sort of reactionary hatred. This is also not to say we should persecute Muslims for a crime one man committed either, but to ignore the motives in either case and focus on self-serving twitter trends will not make anyone safer.
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    (Original post by niv1234)
    I guess this makes sense but sadly most of the Nazis ideas weren't original to them so if these twisted people don't get their inspiration from the Nazis they would simply turn to something else and we can't do anything about this unless we find a way to wipe out human history.
    If we just wiped out every mention of race in every single textbook, who would even think about being racist? Nobody is eye-colour-ist, its not natural, so why would people be racist unless they got the idea somewhere? If we made the whole concept of racism completely alien to people, nobody would be racist.
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    If we just wiped out every mention of race in every single textbook, who would even think about being racist? Nobody is eye-colour-ist, its not natural, so why would people be racist unless they got the idea somewhere? If we made the whole concept of racism completely alien to people, nobody would be racist.
    I guess that makes sense but that is really impractical sadly. I've always just thought that some people dislike or are for some reason scared of people who are different or just not like them but as you said this might not exist if we got rid of all mentions o this stuff.
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    If we just wiped out every mention of race in every single textbook, who would even think about being racist? Nobody is eye-colour-ist, its not natural, so why would people be racist unless they got the idea somewhere? If we made the whole concept of racism completely alien to people, nobody would be racist.
    I don't agree with that at all, I think it is much more likely that racism is a natural trait that arose from the necessity to be wary of anything different.
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    If we just wiped out every mention of race in every single textbook, who would even think about being racist? Nobody is eye-colour-ist, its not natural, so why would people be racist unless they got the idea somewhere? If we made the whole concept of racism completely alien to people, nobody would be racist.
    I have South Asian relatives and it didn't occur to me they are a different race until someone pointed it out to me It would be impractical to scrub out the very idea, but certainly placing less emphasis on the concepts themselves would help a lot of people.
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    One radical solution would be to stop the teaching of the Nazis, and purge every mention of them from historical records

    Yes, we wouldn't have the benefit of 'learning from the past', but there will always be a minority of people who like the idea of the Nazis, and are inspired by the Holocaust - and these are the people we are worried about; we would stop giving them ideas this way, and they'd likely end up committing petty crimes instead of terrorism
    I would say that I expect it to be more likely counter constructive. One of the best ways to not deal with an ideology is to pretend it doesn't exist rather than tackling it, which is exactly what you're proposing and exactly the problem that the West is having right now; we laugh at and ignore ideologies we don't like even when they gain momentum and become a potential threat when we should be taking them seriously and showing why they are wrong, especially in the digital age where you cannot simply erase these things from history.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    I would say that I expect it to be more likely counter constructive. One of the best ways to not deal with an ideology is to pretend it doesn't exist rather than tackling it, which is exactly what you're proposing and exactly the problem that the West is having right now; we laugh at and ignore ideologies we don't like even when they gain momentum and become a potential threat when we should be taking them seriously and showing why they are wrong, especially in the digital age where you cannot simply erase these things from history.
    You misunderstand. To stop an ideology from taking power, you teach against it, because you want the majority of people to be against it, even if it makes a minority of people believe in that ideology - because the majority of people will stop the minority of people

    To entirely vanquish an ideology from the face of the earth, you remove all mentions of it, because you don't want even a minority of people believing that ideology

    Racism no longer has a chance of coming to power, but we still struggle with racist extremists, so I suggest the latter option is the best
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    (Original post by tanyapotter)
    Thomas Mair gave his name as "Death to traitors, freedom for Britain" when he appeared at Westminster Magistrates' Court.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36567005

    Now that it is confirmed that his actions were clearly a result of far-right neofascism, when will we start addressing this as the terrorism that it is? White supremacy has no place in this country or in society.
    It most certainly is terrorism and this man has been radicalised by the far-right, even if the media is reluctant to used these words. There was a clear political motive.
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    Firstly... you have deliberately and selectively quoted me to make it look like a statement instead of what it was which was a question. Here it is below:

    "How do you know he did not kill Mrs Cox because he was aggrieved by cuts to his mental health service and felt mrs Cox work for Syria refugees was at the expense of his own plight?"

    Well done on showing your lack of honesty and integrity though.




    I did not say that feeling aggrieved at mental health services being cut means he was justified... I said it to a person who portrayed his grievances as being due to white supremacy.

    We dont know the extent of his mental health, if he had OCD and thats it, it clearly has zero bearing on this crime. No, we do also treat brown and black people the same.. do you remember a brown muslim beheading a frail 82 year old grandmother in London whilst shouting allah ackbar? ... He was not convicted of terrorism, it was not an act of terror. He was mentally ill. You have deep entrenched biases... thats why you ignore it. READ

    You only see what confirms your bias and misconceptions.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ler-cleared-of
    There was no hesitation to call Omar Mateen's a terrorist, even before we has more information on his background and mental health. By the looks of it now he was indeed mentally ill but is still viewed as a terrorist because he had a clear political motive, much like Cox's murderer and unlike the man who murdered the grandma. On the other so many insisted that terrorist Anders Breivik was mentally ill even after he was declared sane in a desperate attempt not to label a White European Christian a terrorist.
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    One radical solution would be to stop the teaching of the Nazis, and purge every mention of them from historical records

    Yes, we wouldn't have the benefit of 'learning from the past', but there will always be a minority of people who like the idea of the Nazis, and are inspired by the Holocaust - and these are the people we are worried about; we would stop giving them ideas this way, and they'd likely end up committing petty crimes instead of terrorism
    I think a lot of Jewish people would be unhappy at not having their ancestors' suffering memorialised. Also, because of the Internet, it would be near impossible to actually do


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    (Original post by WBZ144)
    There was no hesitation to call Omar Mateen's a terrorist, even before we has more information on his background and mental health. By the looks of it now he was indeed mentally ill but is still viewed as a terrorist because he had a clear political motive, much like Cox's murderer and unlike the man who murdered the grandma. On the other so many insisted that terrorist Anders Breivik was mentally ill even after he was declared sane in a desperate attempt not to label a White European Christian a terrorist.
    I don't think I've ever heard anyone claim Anders Brevik isn't a terrorist. This notion that white people are never labelled as terrorists is ridiculous.


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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    I don't think I've ever heard anyone claim Anders Brevik isn't a terrorist. This notion that white people are never labelled as terrorists is ridiculous.


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    Unless they are White Muslims it has rarely happened since 9/11. Here are just a couple of sources of many which show the reluctance to call even him a terrorist. Many times he is a "gunman" or a "mass murderer":
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...my-of-one.html

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...nsane-murderer
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    Do you not recognise the arguments?

    #NotAllMuslims
    #RightToReligion
    #HomophobiaAndSexismIsNotOnlyNat uralItIsAllah'sWill
    Your tongue-in-cheek comparison is disingenuous. Racism, sexism and homophobia are very specific in condoning discrimination and hatred for people on superficial grounds, which makes them inherently negative. As such, they are rightly condemned.

    On the other hand, religions including Islam are multifaceted ideologies. They're open to interpretation: Rumi's sufism is vastly different to the violent wahabbism practised by ISIS for example. Islam is not inherently sexist or homophobic, there are feminist Muslims, LGBT Muslims, and even cultural Muslims who do not believe in Islamic theology but nevertheless identify as Muslims due to their backgrounds. If Islam consisted of primarily sexists and homophobes who are out to oppress and discriminate against anyone who doesn't agree with them, then you might have a point.
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    (Original post by blah3210)
    Your tongue-in-cheek comparison is disingenuous. Racism, sexism and homophobia are very specific in condoning discrimination and hatred for people on superficial grounds, which makes them inherently negative. As such, they are rightly condemned.

    On the other hand, religions including Islam are multifaceted ideologies. They're open to interpretation: Rumi's sufism is vastly different to the violent wahabbism practised by ISIS for example. Islam is not inherently sexist or homophobic, there are feminist Muslims, LGBT Muslims, and even cultural Muslims who do not believe in Islamic theology but nevertheless identify as Muslims due to their backgrounds. If Islam consisted of primarily sexists and homophobes who are out to oppress and discriminate against anyone who doesn't agree with them, then you might have a point.
    Racism is multifaceted - even Nazism has different branches, e.g. Strasserism, which was hostile to Jews not from an ethnic standpoint, but from an anti-capitalist one

    Islam is inherently sexist and homophobic; just because many Muslims choose to ignore what is written in the Quran doesn't mean the Quran is all nice and pink and fluffy and lovely, just like a racist doesn't necessarily follow the anti-Semitism in Mein Kampf
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    Thread about White Terrorism turns into a thread about how bad Muslims are. Typical. :rolleyes:
 
 
 
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