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    Imperial HAS QUOTAS (shock!) in Medicine (oh, that's standard... move along, nothing to see...)

    https://www.imperial.ac.uk/study/ug/...when-to-apply/

    "International Candidates
    International candidates will be considered for admission if they have, or expect to gain, the necessary qualifications. Most organisations providing secondary level education are familiar with the UCAS system and are able to provide the relevant support. Please note that, due to the operation of imposed quotas, there are a limited number of places offered each year to full cost international students of the School of Medicine."
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    (Original post by aeroline1999)
    But they categorically stated in the engineering talk I went to at Imperial (and the admissions talk) that they do have quotas for Non EU/UK students. That they have to fill and more often than not exceed. So are you saying that they both lied?
    If you're good, they'll offer you a place. If you're bad, they won't.

    Are you trying to say that two of the most experienced people on my team, who advise thousands, if not hundred of thousands, of students per year, are wrong because of something that you misinterpreted?
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    (Original post by aeroline1999)
    That doesn't. It was just because someone said they didn't have any quotas, I was just pointing out they definitely do, even if it is a different type of quota.

    Also I don't think working hard is good enough.

    I could (and hopefully will have) 4 A's in my AS exams and predicted A*A*A*A overall, and yet I still think the odds are against me. Theres just too few places. I think its like 7 applicants for every place at universities like Oxbridge, Imperial, Durham etc.
    Thats to due with the number of students that apply and number of places that exist. Its not an odd against you tho. Becuase if its based on acaedmics so you have near perfect then you will defo get a place. So it is all determined on ur hard work at the end of the day
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    (Original post by aeroline1999)
    Theres just too few places. I think its like 7 applicants for every place at universities like Oxbridge, Imperial, Durham etc.
    And yet white, male, straight applicants can be successful applicants at each of those universities, and Imperial too.

    Just get on with it.
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    I answered truthfully (Straight, white male) and got declined from all 5 choices. That's just my experience though, my mate who also answered truthfully ( also a straight, white male) got 2 unconditionals and 3 conditionals ( despite having slightly worse grades than me). I think that it more depends on the subject you aspire to study and how popular it is, not to mention the quality of your personal statement. Then again, who knows? Maybe the admissions officer just does eeny meeny miny moe.
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    (Original post by Roving Fish)
    If you're good, they'll offer you a place. If you're bad, they won't.

    Are you trying to say that two of the most experienced people on my team, who advise thousands, if not hundred of thousands, of students per year, are wrong because of something that you misinterpreted?
    In terms of being good and being offered a place or bad and not I don't really agree.

    When you have say 700 applicants all applying for about 90 places, and they are all really good students, say majority got AAAA in their AS exams and are predicted something like A*A*A* at A-Level how are they supposed to choose? I realise this means the personal statement and interview are both really really important, but even then, most of these applicants will have extracurricular activities and proof of interest in their chosen field etc etc etc shining right in the faces of the admissions tutors.

    So seriously? How do they differentiate? Really though? Other than flipping a coin how else can they really decide?
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    (Original post by aeroline1999)
    In terms of being good and being offered a place or bad and not I don't really agree.

    When you have say 700 applicants all applying for about 90 places, and they are all really good students, say majority got AAAA in their AS exams and are predicted something like A*A*A* at A-Level how are they supposed to choose? I realise this means the personal statement and interview are both really really important, but even then, most of these applicants will have extracurricular activities and proof of interest in their chosen field etc etc etc shining right in the faces of the admissions tutors.

    So seriously? How do they differentiate? Really though? Other than flipping a coin how else can they really decide?
    I have no insight in to the admissions process other than how clearing takes place. See PQ's response as she's a fountain of knowledge when it comes to this.

    I clearly don't expect you to agree, as you seem to be arguing the toss. So to conclude your question in your OP: Answer them honestly as they're for equal opportunities monitoring. If you spend your educational and professional life worrying over what to answer with these, then you're going to frankly have a bad time.
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    (Original post by sarahellens)
    Thats to due with the number of students that apply and number of places that exist. Its not an odd against you tho. Becuase if its based on acaedmics so you have near perfect then you will defo get a place. So it is all determined on ur hard work at the end of the day
    Doesn't help that I go to quite a good school so actually those grades, whilst good, aren't exactly unusual where I go. And I've been told by teachers that universities compare your performance to the average performance of your school as well.
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    (Original post by Roving Fish)
    I have no insight in to the admissions process other than how clearing takes place. See PQ's response as she's a fountain of knowledge when it comes to this.

    I clearly don't expect you to agree, as you seem to be arguing the toss. So to conclude your question in your OP: Answer them honestly as they're for equal opportunities monitoring. If you spend your educational and professional life worrying over what to answer with these, then you're going to frankly have a bad time.
    Okay, thanks for you help.
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    (Original post by aeroline1999)
    In terms of being good and being offered a place or bad and not I don't really agree.

    When you have say 700 applicants all applying for about 90 places, and they are all really good students, say majority got AAAA in their AS exams and are predicted something like A*A*A* at A-Level how are they supposed to choose? I realise this means the personal statement and interview are both really really important, but even then, most of these applicants will have extracurricular activities and proof of interest in their chosen field etc etc etc shining right in the faces of the admissions tutors.

    So seriously? How do they differentiate? Really though? Other than flipping a coin how else can they really decide?
    The colour of the shirt, tie or dress you wear to the interview?
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    (Original post by aeroline1999)
    Doesn't help that I go to quite a good school so actually those grades, whilst good, aren't exactly unusual where I go. And I've been told by teachers that universities compare your performance to the average performance of your school as well.
    That's only relevant if you've done particularly bad at a good performing school or particularly well at an underperforming school. Doing well at a good school is a non issue-they'll just look at how your predicted grades match up to your AS grades and the required grades for the course you've applied for
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    (Original post by HistoryDave)
    The colour of the shirt, tie or dress you wear to the interview?
    I know you're joking but its probably not too far from the truth in many cases since first impressions are really important.
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    [QUOTE=aeroline1999;65899202]Doesn't help that I go to quite a good school so actually those grades, whilst good, aren't exactly unusual where I go. And I've been told by teachers that universities compare your performance to the average performance of

    No, thats only when you apply for like scolarships at uni or if you apply to medicine.
    That way is fair tho. If someone goes to very bad school where the teachers are crap and the many disturbances in class then they arent gonna be able to learn effectively enough. Will have to teach themsleves. So if they get the same grades as someone who goes to grammar school with loads of hekp. Then the first person will do better at uni then the grammar school kid cause they didbt have help and uni is independent learning
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    (Original post by aeroline1999)
    In terms of being good and being offered a place or bad and not I don't really agree.

    When you have say 700 applicants all applying for about 90 places, and they are all really good students, say majority got AAAA in their AS exams and are predicted something like A*A*A* at A-Level how are they supposed to choose? I realise this means the personal statement and interview are both really really important, but even then, most of these applicants will have extracurricular activities and proof of interest in their chosen field etc etc etc shining right in the faces of the admissions tutors.

    So seriously? How do they differentiate? Really though? Other than flipping a coin how else can they really decide?
    At Oxbridge and Imperial the interview does provide useful information. Oxford (and now Cambridge) also have admissions assesments (PAT, etc).

    Oh and you are assuming out of the "700" only 90 get offers. That's not the case. You are, again, misunderstanding the process, and specifically acceptance rates vs offer rates.

    Imperial CivEng offer rate is 50%.
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    (Original post by aeroline1999)
    Yeah, not a troll. Genuine concern. It is my future that depends on this you know.

    And actually they sort of do. Slightly different circumstance, but I visited Imperial back in September and the admissions tutor told us that firstly "they prefer non British applicants as they are often of a much higher calibre than British applicants". They also said they have certain quotas for non EU/UK and if they don't fill these quotas then they don't give them over to EU/UK applicants. They also said that "more often than not they exceed the non EU/UK quotas" and "often give extra places to non EU/UK applicants over their required quotas".

    So yeah, they have quotas. And worse than that, they don't even have quotas for British students. If they wanted they could accept no British students and just take all foreign applicants. If that isn't messed up I don't know what is. No other country in the world has a university system set up in favour of applicants who live outside that country.


    I realise this is a slightly different issue, but still. They do have quotas. Also, please don't have a go at me for the quotes, they are quotes from memory but, if you want to see for yourself, go to an Imperial Open day and go to the talk on Admissions.
    I had heard something similar in that they are only allowed to take a certain amount of foreign students. So if actually Imperial is taking more than they're allowed, then they are wrong to do so. But this isn't to do with sexuality or gender, but rather that they pay higher fees and some unis wouldn't be able to survive without the extra income- which I find ridiculous.

    If you are going to achieving 4As in your exams and have A* predictions, don't worry about the UCAS form and quotas. Especially if you want to apply to Durham or Oxbridge. If anything, those places are perfect for you as a white male. Unlike America, we don't have as much positive discrimination. It is for the most part an even playing field. Don't worry about not going to a top uni.

    Overall, I don't think there will be much of a difference between you picking 'prefer not to say' and you telling the truth.
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    [QUOTE=sarahellens;65899304]
    (Original post by aeroline1999)
    Doesn't help that I go to quite a good school so actually those grades, whilst good, aren't exactly unusual where I go. And I've been told by teachers that universities compare your performance to the average performance of

    No, thats only when you apply for like scolarships at uni or if you apply to medicine.
    That way is fair tho. If someone goes to very bad school where the teachers are crap and the many disturbances in class then they arent gonna be able to learn effectively enough. Will have to teach themsleves. So if they get the same grades as someone who goes to grammar school with loads of hekp. Then the first person will do better at uni then the grammar school kid cause they didbt have help and uni is independent learning
    I understand why people think it is fair, but I don't agree. My school only does well because they have very high entry standards and they kick out anyone who falls below a B in any subject. Its not because the teachers are good. Although admittedly, class disturbances are rare, but still happen, and there is a culture where you are expected to do well rather than bullied for doing well. But still, I had to work just as hard as anyone. Every night staying up until 1am to finish history essays or notes or to work through pages and pages of maths questions. So its not exactly easy just because I go to a good school.
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    (Original post by lahorizon)
    I had heard something similar in that they are only allowed to take a certain amount of foreign students.
    Nope. Except for medicine, due to NHS funding.
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    Just put yourself down as prefer not to say, so that you don't become a part of a statistic.

    (Well still a statistic, but a more ambiguous one, especially so if everyone done it for every box by principle.)
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    [QUOTE=aeroline1999;65899426]
    (Original post by sarahellens)

    I understand why people think it is fair, but I don't agree. My school only does well because they have very high entry standards and they kick out anyone who falls below a B in any subject. Its not because the teachers are good. Although admittedly, class disturbances are rare, but still happen, and there is a culture where you are expected to do well rather than bullied for doing well. But still, I had to work just as hard as anyone. Every night staying up until 1am to finish history essays or notes or to work through pages and pages of maths questions. So its not exactly easy just because I go to a good school.
    No one is saying that is it ever easy but there are students who have way higher difficult lives and have to cope with everything ur dealing with at the same time. For example, my friend also stays up till 4 am every night studying cause her mum is disabled so when she gets home she has to cook and clean and look after everyone. The most sleep she has ever gotten is 3 hours. You need to u derstand that is it hard for you but your lucky in many ways. Becuase you have to opportunity to learn well and go home and study. Your teachers may not be good but at least they are there. For example, i go to every bad school. I am doing A2 levels and 5 of my teachers have left. One of my science teachers is a techinian who doesnt know how to spell science. Life is hard for everyone but some people are dealt with *****y hand than others. So systems have to be made fair becuase life hasnt been fair to them. Why should you get the same opportunitys as the them when life us constantly harder on them then you? They delt with so much yet have achieved the same you. Like my friend with disabled mum got slightly better grades then me.
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    (Original post by aeroline1999)
    The reason I ask this is that I am worried about being discriminated against by answering these questions in my UCAS application, and obviously I want to maximise my chances of being accepted into a good university.You may think it is ironic that I am asking this, because interms of my gender, race and sexuality, on the surface it appears I fit into the category that is most widely discriminated FOR. This is because I am male, white and straight. However, I am worried about race and gender quotas affecting my application, and I fear that actually, as a white, straight male I amactually more likely to be discriminated against in terms of university applications because of positive discrimination policies and quotas to try to increase the numbers of women and non-white people entering university. Also, I don't see how these are in anyway relevant questions, and I think university applications should be made gender, race, sexuality and name blind, as that is, in my opinion, the only way to truly eliminate conscious and or subconscious as well as institutional discrimination.Therefore, I am seriously thinking about answering all these questions with: "prefer not to say". However, I am also worried that this may also act against me as admissions tutors may not take kindly to such an answer and again I may be discriminated against either consciously, subconsciously or institutionally. There is also another factor, what if genuinely would benefit from subconscious discrimination by admitting that I am white, male and straight? So as you can see I feel very conflicted by this. Personally, I wish they would't ask the questions at all.
    The tutors don't get to see all that information, although they can obviously (and generally do) make an inference on your race and gender from your name. It didn't seem to affect my chances, and I am of Asian origin, a vastly over-represented minority. At my interview on Skype, the interviewer didn't even know the country I came from!
 
 
 
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