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I don't know what to vote and it's frustrating me watch

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    (Original post by dragonzrmetal)
    We have James Dyson and Professor Brian Sturgess arguing for us to leave but Bob Geldoff and Comrade Corbyn saying stay.

    See, you can twist that to sound however you like, it's just a silly argument to make, let's grow up a bit.

    To the OP, you should vote leave to make me happy. No, I mean honestly, if you're not sure, well personally I wouldn't vote.
    The same Dyson that wanted us to join in the Euro and has moved all of his manufacturing to Malaysia?

    Great tract record of confidence.
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    The same Dyson that wanted us to join in the Euro and has moved all of his manufacturing to Malaysia?

    Great tract record of confidence.
    Malaysia isn't in the EU... He was talking about how impossible it is to bring in skilled workers from outside the EU. Gadh.
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    (Original post by dragonzrmetal)
    Malaysia isn't in the EU... He was talking about how impossible it is to bring in skilled workers from outside the EU. Gadh.
    The point was that he doesn't care about UK jobs. UK jobs were lost when he moved. Now, he can still hire cheap labour either way to build his overpriced vacuums.

    The UK controls Non-EU migration....so if it is difficult to hire....then that is to do with the UK.

    Do you know what you are talking about?
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    (Original post by Inexorably)
    I AM AT MY WITS END WITH THIS EU REFERENDUM

    I HAVE WATCHED SO MANY DEBATES
    READ SO MANY ARTICLES
    SPOKEN TO SO MANY PEOPLE ABOUT THEIR OPINION

    AND I STILL CANNOT DECidEEEEEE.

    If you'd asked me anytime before like Summer last year I would have said leave, but then since then I've been kinda swaying on in.

    Then the past 2 weeks I just can't even decide at all. Both sides have pretty good points and I hate this cause it's my (our) generation that it's gonna affect the most ughhhhhhhh.

    IS it acceptable to just spoil my ballot in frustration.
    Stop listening to your head and vote with your heart.

    If that doesn't work, perhaps you should consider a vote to remain. Yes, I'm a Brexiter, and I think Britain should take the risk and leave the EU. But I think that if you're really that uncertain, it's probably better to vote for the status quo than for something we can't predict as easily.

    (This was the advice my Leave-supporting dad gave me when I told him I had no idea what to vote)

    Also, take anyone trying to persuade you (whether on TV or on TSR) with a pinch of salt. Everyone has strong opinions.

    Best of luck! Make sure you use your vote!
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    Political Ambassador
    Just count your lucky stars you can vote😄 I can't, miss it by two months 😁
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    (Original post by emmarough)
    I think you're best looking at the kind of people who support each campaign leave or stay, that's what swayed me. We have Nigel Farage and Donald Trump saying leave but the likes of Barack Obama, Richard Branson AND Stephen Hawkins saying stay, choice is yours....
    Frank Field and Dennis Skinner verse Cameron and Osbourne.

    Stupid game to play
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    (Original post by Louise12307)
    Remain. Just think of INDEPENDENT economists who the majority argue for in. Then imagine a future of leave. Scotland would go independent and probably Wales too. That removes a HUGE chunk of Labour voters and will make it super unlikely for them to get in again. You will be stuck with either a far-right Tory government or an even further-right kipper government. You won't be able to just "vote them out" because statistically the odds are against you. Add in the proportion of elderly voters who are mostly conservative AND have higher turnouts, we are done for.




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    I think Camerons Amrageddon ww3 scenario is more likely than this rubbish

    Scotland already lost its Labour voters btw. Hope this helps
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    The point was that he doesn't care about UK jobs. UK jobs were lost when he moved. Now, he can still hire cheap labour either way to build his overpriced vacuums.

    The UK controls Non-EU migration....so if it is difficult to hire....then that is to do with the UK.

    Do you know what you are talking about?
    He is a business entity, he isn't a jobcentre. If it's easier for him to make vacuums in Malaysia without the EU regulations, then there must be a problem with the EU, don't you think? Wouldn't he set-up the manufacturing inside the EU if he could, to save on import tariffs?

    The government has had to cut down immigration because it cannot upgrade the infrastructure to deal with an increased population in the current economic environment, and as it cannot control EU immigration, it has had to increase controls on non EU immigration. A lose-lose situation for everyone, but that's the problem with the EU, don't you think?

    In short, off the high horse, please, your argument is faulty.
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    Hahaha. Comparing this to a general election. How ridiculous.

    Just going to quote the same report, you quoted to me.

    " Our central case in the event of a vote for Brexit is that uncertainty grips the economy. This could take around 1.0-1.5pp off the GDP growth rate by H2 2017. ........... And if sterling were to fall by around 15-20% (as our currency strategists predict) "

    15-20% fall is normally what happens following a general election?

    So stop lying.
    Im saying it is caused by uncertainty with people like you saying its the end of the world if we leave then the short term affects are not going to be brilliant but these reports show that long term the effects on the economy arent as bad as you suggest.

    What part was the lie?
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    Maybe look on websites that give impartial views of both sides of the arguments. Asking TSR members is not helpful.
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    (Original post by dragonzrmetal)
    He is a business entity, he isn't a jobcentre. If it's easier for him to make vacuums in Malaysia without the EU regulations, then there must be a problem with the EU, don't you think? Wouldn't he set-up the manufacturing inside the EU if he could, to save on import tariffs?.
    [email protected] regulations.

    What regulation is stopping him from building a hoover in the EU? (Answer: Nothing)

    He builds hoovers in Malaysia because it is dirt cheap.

    He also wanted us to join the Euro even though the IMF and Gordon Brown said it was a bad idea.

    James Dyson 'It's suicidal for the UK not to join the euro. Why should we go on exporting at a loss? We're facing unfair competition,' he said.


    (Original post by dragonzrmetal)
    The government has had to cut down immigration because it cannot upgrade the infrastructure to deal with an increased population in the current economic environment, and as it cannot control EU immigration, it has had to increase controls on non EU immigration. A lose-lose situation for everyone, but that's the problem with the EU, don't you think?.
    You mean EU citizens who on average pay more tax and are more likely to be employed than Non-EU citizens is the type of immigration that we don't want?

    Brexit logic.
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    Im saying it is caused by uncertainty with people like you saying its the end of the world if we leave then the short term affects are not going to be brilliant but these reports show that long term the effects on the economy arent as bad as you suggest.

    What part was the lie?
    The lie was when you suggested that the similar volatility in the pound also "happens during general elections as well".

    You are either lying or you don't know what you are talking about.

    I didn't talk about the Long term effects. Neither does that report incidentally. It is a report about the short term effects of Brexit in the next few years. It just says the UK will be a strong economy. That is it. That doesn't mean that it will be stronger if the UK left or stayed in the EU. It is a generic statement.
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    Well, most economists have said that it is a bad idea.Let's look at some facts.....how many companies have said they will invest more if we leave tomorrow? ZeroI can list multiple companies that have said they will change their investment or move jobs to other countries.
    Look at the value of the pound. It is plummeting because the markets do not want a Brexit. Now, if we have a crash, it will affect everyone.
    Im not sure i believe things they say so much though. After the whole thing of tuition fees wont rise but yet, here we are.
    while places such as HSBC, Anne summers and EasyJet have all said they want us to stay. Reebok, Legal and General and Timpsons have all said they want to leave. But again, these are all opinions of people. What would happen about it is another matter.

    For those that are leaving, will we gain someone in there place? If an opportunity came up for a gap in the market, would a company outside of the EU fill it? That's not really something that is ever addressed.

    Its a reasonable assumption that the pound will fall. It did during black wednesday in the past but there isn't really much for long term. I'm less anxious on how i'm going to suffer for 3 years and more what it will be like in 30 which no one has predicted it seems. Also, the pound was doing badly since 2014 so some of its drop is down to that. Also and it is considered that the pound will be weaker no matter the result, just slightly worse if we leave but itmight get picked up faster out of Europe, but it might not.


    (Original post by joecphillips)
    That other person is talking short term long term there are little consequence economically.

    He states that the pound is falling because Britain may leave the EU that is true but that is not the full reason it is because of uncertainty it happens during general elections as well but that isn't used as a reason to get rid off democracy.
    Again, i see your point. As i say above the Pound was doing badly anyway, this just hasn't helped. The problem is which bit do we look at. The Treasury has said we could be looking at a drop of 15% which is good if the Bank of England sees a recession after Brexit (if it happens) as it will boost growth, but bad if prolonged as it will cause and increase in interest rates.

    The most important bit would be how it picks up again. But as that is more long term, its not something anyone can guess. Since we were doing badly anyway, it would give the idea that we would just continue along the same route but Leaving Europe could make us better or worse.

    Both sides are just so uncertain, with good points and bad, it makes it so difficult to decide
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    (Original post by Samonia)
    Im not sure i believe things they say so much though. After the whole thing of tuition fees wont rise but yet, here we are.
    while places such as HSBC, Anne summers and EasyJet have all said they want us to stay. Reebok, Legal and General and Timpsons have all said they want to leave. But again, these are all opinions of people. What would happen about it is another matter.
    I think it is important to point out that Legal and General and Reebok, did not say that they want Brexit.

    What they said was that Brexit won't affect business in the UK in short term. That is the case with many businesses but not all.

    In a survey of 700 British and German firms, more than 29% said they would relocate or cut capacity.

    In a survey of 127 American companies that employ 300,000 people, 70% said a Brexit would negatively impact on future investments.

    How many of these jobs can we get back in the "long term"?

    That really brings me back to my point that no business has said they will invest more. These are not politicians lying about Tuition fees.
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    (Original post by Samonia)
    d.

    Its a reasonable assumption that the pound will fall. It did during black wednesday in the past but there isn't really much for long term. I'm less anxious on how i'm going to suffer for 3 years and more what it will be like in 30 which no one has predicted it seems. Also, the pound was doing badly since 2014 so some of its drop is down to that. Also and it is considered that the pound will be weaker no matter the result, just slightly worse if we leave but itmight get picked up faster out of Europe, but it might not.

    Well, the pound has dropped to record lows this year. The lowest was immediately after Cameron announced the referendum when I think it dropped to 1.29. If Brexit was definite, then it would most likely be lower.

    HSBC have predicted a 15-20% further drop if there is a Brexit.

    The level of volatility in the pound has not been seen since the recession of 08-09.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...xit-vote-nears
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    I'll admit: there will most likely be some economic costs from leaving. nothing to do with trade access - simply the adjustment to the new laws which will cost people money via lawyers etc

    BUT
    this will be SHORT-TERM. you hear me? it will be an adjustment in the same sense that it was an adjustment when the UK joined the european economic community (the EU) in 1972, okay?
    in the LONG TERM, we, as one single (*very* wealthy country) (not as 30~ all around one table having to reach relative unanimity to have a simple agreement) will make very prosperous trade deals all over the world (which we currently do not within the stagnating protectionist corporatist club, the EU) so this will make us get MORE growth and trade and therefore more jobs and tax revenues. if we get tariffs via non-membership of the EEA (single market) then the EU will harming itself and the EU corporatism won't allow for it - the EU was set up to OPEN european trade, not deliberately restrict it - germany's car industry would be put on ****ing life-support without the UK's open trade with it, for instance

    all this prophecising of recessions and economic issues is like saying "if we fight WWII we will have our people dying!! so we shouldn't fight!!" (which is true)
    well then what would have happened if we DIDN'T fight in WWII? we'd be invaded by the nazis and controlled by them, assuming that they would have beaten us when they accumulated enough power post-france without us stopping them making progress (you get the idea)

    if you support the EU membership for economic reasons, you have the economic distance-vision of literally about 5 years. can't you see beyond ****ing 5 years? isn't that a little bit insane that you can't understand that the trade deals and the absence of membership fees, and the obvious reluctance of the EU to actually tariff us, will actually HELP us, huh? I can't understand that one ****in' bit.
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    (Original post by 16characterlimit)
    Vote in, exit campaign isn't really lead by people who want whats best for us. Its just Boris and Nige's power grab.
    And the remain campaign isn't?

    (Think, David Cameron! Think about the benefits of remaining for his career after he leaves office.)
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    The lie was when you suggested that the similar volatility in the pound also "happens during general elections as well".

    You are either lying or you don't know what you are talking about.

    I didn't talk about the Long term effects. Neither does that report incidentally. It is a report about the short term effects of Brexit in the next few years. It just says the UK will be a strong economy. That is it. That doesn't mean that it will be stronger if the UK left or stayed in the EU. It is a generic statement.
    Does the £ tend to drop before an election? I was showing that it was uncertainty that causes the pound to drop and used an example that shows this
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    (Original post by dragonzrmetal)
    He is a business entity, he isn't a jobcentre. If it's easier for him to make vacuums in Malaysia without the EU regulations, then there must be a problem with the EU, don't you think? Wouldn't he set-up the manufacturing inside the EU if he could, to save on import tariffs?
    Are you that blinded by your dislike of the EU to really think that?

    The fact is it's cheaper to employ people in Asia and pay them **** all than it is to pay them properly in any western country.

    We don't buy almost everything from China by coincidence.
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    You are now at this Y-junction. Both are the ways to the future. Unfortunately you can't see the future. You really don't know what will happen. What should you do?

    Just do your best. Make your own decision.

    Whatever will happen ,will happen. You're just a human. You can control something...just something...not everything.

    There are always solutions to problems. Don't worry too much about the future.:-)

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