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Baroness Warsi defects from Leave to Remain Watch

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    (Original post by EuanF)
    It's showing that Turkey shares a land border with those countries, not that they're going to join.
    Given Turkey aren't joining it's all a load of rubbish.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Given Turkey aren't joining it's all a load of rubbish.
    Let's try in a different thread: if this is so then why are we wasting billions to help them join?

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Let's try in a different thread: if this is so then why are we wasting billions to help them join?

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    Are we actually or is this just another misleading fabricating by project fib?

    Both us and Germany have said they are not joining any time soon.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Are we actually or is this just another misleading fabricating by project fib?

    Both us and Germany have said they are not joining any time soon.
    Or we try a different question: if they are never join then why is it the official position of our government to help them do so?

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Or we try a different question: if they are never join then why is it the official position of our government to help them do so?

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    Because it is the USA's official position and this country loves to be their lackey.
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    (Original post by Foo.mp3)

    What makes you so sure? We’ve won the argument, and most Brits do not identify as European (85%) and are fed up with the EU/mass immigration, no matter how the establishment spins it nor how many sacrificial lambs/creepy global Crony Capitalists it wheels out :dontknow:
    Lol the delusion.

    Going to be fun coming back on here on Friday to see you Brexiters weeping.
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    (Original post by Esoteric-)
    Remind me to never listen to anything Baroness Warsi has to say.

    If she is going to be so weak in her beliefs that she would entirely change her mind about an issue just because of something so trivial as Nigel Farage making a poster that rubbed some people the wrong way, then she is clearly someone who's judgement should not be relied upon
    This and most people didn't even know she was for brexit


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    (Original post by jneill)
    If it wasn't designed to invoke fear (or uncertainty or doubt) why highlight it on the map?
    I didn't put it together, personally, but I should think it was designed to make people stop and think about what's going on in Europe re: The Migrant Crisis atm and about the UK's direction of travel if we remain within the EU. How people respond to this cue is really up to them, although I would venture that some caution is only natural and, in evolutionary/national survival terms, has historically shown to be 'useful'. I would also add that fear of members of a civilisation e.g. the Muslim world and/or Africa, is not synonymous with xenophobia (prejudice/hostility towards people of a particular country)

    Disingenuousity (if that isn't a word it should be) is also a failing in both camps...
    Disingenuousness has indeed pervaded both camps; as others have said, they were hoping organisations/institutions would seek to inform rather than persuade. The difference is that, unlike the two political campaign sides, the organs of government, and organisations like the BBC, are dutifully/legally supposed to operate clearly in the national interest/remain impartial, and have demonstrably failed to do so - breaching trust and confidence in said institutions

    Furthermore, I venture that the Remain side has been particularly disingenuous e.g. suggesting that 3 million jobs directly linked to EU will disappear in the event of #Brexit, asserting that households will be £4,300 worse off, and that European peace (1945-2016) was somehow down to the EU (1993-2016) or [email protected]+EU (1973-2016)

    I'll assume that a lack of a direct quote in response to my request is indicative of an acceptance that your accusation of xenophobia is baseless and ought never to have been issued. As Boris noted, quoting Sadiq Khan, last night: "in the past we were too quick to dismiss concerns about immigration, even worse, accuse people of prejudice"

    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Say something xenophobic
    Such as?

    So now Syria and Iraq are joining too?
    According to whom?

    Bunch of compulsive liars, the lot of you
    Quote me where I've lied, or retract

    (Original post by IamJacksContempt)
    Lol the delusion
    Just as I say: y'all lack a mature and coherent argument :yy:
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    (Original post by Foo.mp3)
    I didn't put it together, personally, but I should think it was designed to make people stop and think about what's going on in Europe re: The Migrant Crisis atm and about the UK's direction of travel if we remain within the EU. How people respond to this cue is really up to them, although I would venture that some caution is only natural and, in evolutionary/national survival terms, has historically shown to be 'useful'. I would also add that fear of members of a civilisation e.g. the Muslim world and/or Africa, is not synonymous with xenophobia (prejudice/hostility towards people of a particular country)

    Disingenuousness has indeed pervaded both camps; as others have said, they were hoping organisations/institutions would seek to inform rather than persuade. The difference is that, unlike the two political campaign sides, the organs of government, and organisations like the BBC, are dutifully/legally supposed to operate clearly in the national interest/remain impartial, and have demonstrably failed to do so - breaching trust and confidence in said institutions

    Furthermore, I venture that the Remain side has been particularly disingenuous e.g. suggesting that 3 million jobs directly linked to EU will disappear in the event of #Brexit, asserting that households will be £4,300 worse off, and that European peace (1945-2016) was somehow down to the EU (1993-2016) or [email protected]+EU (1973-2016)

    I'll assume that a lack of a direct quote in response to my request is indicative of an acceptance that your accusation of xenophobia is baseless and ought never to have been issued. As Boris noted, quoting Sadiq Khan, last night: "in the past we were too quick to dismiss concerns about immigration, even worse, accuse people of prejudice"

    Such as?

    According to whom?

    Quote me where I've lied, or retract

    Just as I say: y'all lack a mature and coherent argument :yy:


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    You've lied about:
    The EU costing £350 million a week,
    Turkey joining the EU,
    Over 60% of our laws being made in the EU,

    For a start. All completely untrue.
    But the truth is annoyance to project fib which is why you're a bunch of opportunistic compulsive liars.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    You've lied about:
    The EU costing £350 million a week,
    The fact that some of the money comes back does not mean that the gross figure is wrong (although it is more like £360 million). And a rebate is just that: a return of money previously committed.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)

    You've lied about:

    Turkey joining the EU,
    .
    The problem here is that the politicians speak with forked tongue. They tell Turkey that they are working towards its entry and seek to find ways to ease that entry, while telling the British electorate that it could never happen. It most certainly could.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    The fact that some of the money comes back does not mean that the gross figure is wrong (although it is more like £360 million). And a rebate is just that: a return of money previously committed.
    Telling something technically correct but intentionally misleading counts as lying.

    If you pay for a pack of gum with a £20 note and get change, it would be lying to say you have £20 for the gum.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    You've lied about:

    Over 60% of our laws being made in the EU,
    The truth is that around 60% of laws including rules and regulations emanate from the EU. You might seek to claim there is a theoretical difference but, in practice, there is no such difference.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    The problem here is that the politicians speak with forked tongue. They tell Turkey that they are working towards its entry and seek to find ways to ease that entry, while telling the British electorate that it could never happen. It most certainly could.
    Not for decades. All countries have a veto, they have 34 more obligations to fulfil. They are not joining any time soon.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    The truth is that around 60% of laws including rules and regulations emanate from the EU. You might seek to claim there is a theoretical difference but, in practice, there is no such difference.
    Nop. House of Common library has it at 13%.
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    (Original post by jneill)
    Another Leaver has, er, left...

    Former Conservative Party chair Baroness Sayeeda Warsi has defected from the Leave campaign and opted for Britain to remain within the EU.She cited "hate and xenophobia" as the reasons for changing her position. Her decision came after she saw Nigel Farage's controversial 'breaking point' poster, which was widely criticised for being xenophobic

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7090741.html

    She was never part of the Leave campaign.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Not for decades. All countries have a veto, they have 34 more obligations to fulfil. They are not joining any time soon.
    Hmm. By that logic, Britain need never have accepted many of the things it is unhappy with in the first place. The truth is that politicians come under pressure to accept things (even though they need not), and succumb to that pressure.

    In addition, while this government says it won't allow Turkey in (rather unconvincingly, as that contradicts much that was previously stated), who is to say what the next government's stance will be?
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Telling something technically correct but intentionally misleading counts as lying.

    If you pay for a pack of gum with a £20 note and get change, it would be lying to say you have £20 for the gum.
    No. The rebate is not change and Tony Blair was forced to give up 20% of it for several years (which goes to show how permanent it is). In fact, its existence reduces the amount Britain might otherwise receive from EU funds - to the tune of about two thirds in many cases.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    Hmm. By that logic, Britain need never have accepted many of the things it is unhappy with in the first place. The truth is that politicians come under pressure to accept things (even though they need not), and succumb to that pressure.

    In addition, while this government says it won't allow Turkey in (rather unconvincingly, as that contradicts much that was previously stated), who is to say what the next government's stance will be?
    We don't have a veto for everything , we do for membership.
    Doesn't matter because it's not on the table for decades and decades.

    Germany has said they'd veto it too.

    Besides if the situation in turkey has improved in 60-70 years why can't they join then?
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    BREAKING: Baroness (!) Warsi announces withdrawal of her bid to become member of Spice Girls
 
 
 
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