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TSR's Big EU Referendum- The Panel Debates @19:30 Watch

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    You claim that the EU is responsible for all these rights, but it is simply false, paid holiday was legislated for in the Holiday with Pay Act 1938, on top of that we offer nearly 50% more paid holiday than required by the EU. On matters of pay discrimination the Equal Pay Act 1970 also came in before EU membership. With disrimination the Sex Discrimination Act 1975 protects from sex discrimination and the race relations acts 1965, 68, 75 etc from racial discrimination, again, without the EU. On the matter of maternity, again, not only did UK law come first but supersedes the EU directives. I cannot remember the pieces off the top of my head, but pieces from 1992 and 1998 (the 98 piece coming into force nearly 6 months before the EU directive) not only guarantee maternity leave not only for the EU's 14 wees, but a whole year, but also guarantees pay, something not required at all by the EU.

    sorry for not linking the acts, time is somewhat limited
    The EU law protects us from a manevilent government that you might like who would slash these rights. The EU garuntees a minimum floor which nothing can go below. That doesn't mean that we can't do better but it does protect us none the less.
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    (Original post by adam9317)
    Leave: Craig from the audience has this comment to make- baring in mind he is a remainer, although does have his own issues with free movement
    Hi Craig. Your right if we turn our back on Europe things will get worse but in order to help Europe we need a functioning country and our country will not function when we have to many people to look after.

    Our resources are dwindling. We need time to breathe.

    Our border control forces haven't had a break for a very long time. So of course they will be less effective with less man power but once they have time to recoup they will be more effective.

    Its also worth noting that if we leave the EU we will be able to be more effective with sniffer Dogs. We don't use as many now days because we are afraid of violating peoples religon. We need to get rid of the poltical correctness by leaving the EU and allow border control to do there jobs without poltical correctness.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    With the crippling cost of some regulations, and the damage caused by regulation, surely we should welcome most of the economy being relieved from them. Further, do you support the idea of trying to also enter into a political union with the likes of America, Russia, China, and the UAE so we can have next to no say in the rules governing our exports to those countries?
    I'll remind you that this is the free movement debate.

    But anyway, we the people do have more say in the EU than outside it as MEPs vote on trade agreement conditions. Take the EU away and behind closed doors such dangerous, radical measures akin to the TTIP that's currently being discussed wreck our public services that much more easily.
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    2 minutes then we are moving on, lets wrap it up folks
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    (Original post by Aph)
    The EU law protects us from a manevilent government that you might like who would slash these rights. The EU garuntees a minimum floor which nothing can go below. That doesn't mean that we can't do better but it does protect us none the less.
    But this entire line of argument is that a Tory government would commit electoral suicide to remove these rights, the argument goes that the second we leave all these rights will be gone. Surely if this were the case the rights would already be at their minimums; paid holiday would be 20 days, not 28; maternity leave would be 14 rather than 52 weeks, and unpaid. But let us not forget, that many of these "rights" were enacted by Tory governments, or survived what some regard as the most right wing governments in British history.
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    In the end though, these are the facts when it comes to what the EU does for Brits across Europe.
    • Around 3.5 million British jobs are directly linked to British membership of the European Union’s single market – 1 in 10 British jobs.
    • 1.4 million British people live abroad in the EU.
    • More than 14,500 UK students took part in the European Union’s Erasmus student exchange scheme in 2012-13.
    • Driving licences issued in the UK are valid throughout the EU.
    • Equal pay for men and women is enshrined in EU law, as are bans on discrimination by age, race or sexual orientation. This benefits Britain and British people who live in other EU countries.
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    Great debate there- and all the thoughts can come together and allow everyone to formulate their choice for Thursday

    And topic 3, we move onto rule making and legislative issues, and our statement

    ‘The European Union can create laws as a collective union to move the EU further and benefit the people, yet the fact that EU law is supreme to UK law- in certain circumstances, causes a problem for our lawmakers at Westminster’ What's your thoughts on this issue?
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    #VoteLeave: Free Movement

    INEQUALITY
    • Effect of free movement is effectively to drive down wages/employment T&Cs at the bottom, and to drive up bankers' bonuses at the top | GDN
    • The best and brightest Europeans have been emigrating en masse, worsening spatial deprivation by inflicting a 'brain drain' on the periphery
    • Our National Living Wage, whilst laudable, will further incentivise millions to travel to the UK, when income disparities are already huge

    SOCIETY
    • The sheer number, mobility, and patchy levels of integration of migrants is irrefutably causing societal friction and pressure on public services
    • It's clear that it has become increasingly difficult to secure affordable/social housing due, in large part, to related demand-side pressure | HSG
    • Roughly 50% of EU migrants return home within a decade but this churning thematic is linked to low English learning/integration | UoR

    SECURITY
    • EU’s European Court of Justice (ECJ) arbitrarily prevents barring/deportation of convicted criminals, terrorists, and unemployed migrants | BBC
    The Migrant Crisis is a shambles and the EU intends to fine member states a €250,000 per asylum seeker they refuse entry | BBC
    • Relatively unvetted non-EU migrants are being given EU residency/citizenship. We are unable to bar their entry, despite ISIS threat | REU

    (Original post by adam9317)
    The United Kingdom’s open door policy allows skilled workers to come into our country and benefit our economy
    It allows over 500 million people free and unfettered access. This includes, but is by no means limited to, skilled workers, and whilst there is a clear benefit to our economy in terms of GDP, the impact to public finances is less clear (see my opening post)

    our nation's public services such as education and health are under strain because of this
    See above, under SOCIETY, for my related analysis

    (Original post by adam9317)
    Can I put it to you in regards to the Switzerland or Norway model. Could the UK replicate something similar if we left
    See my opening post for a sense for how we could do far far better. Remember these countries negotiated with an EEC in the ascendency, rather than an EU that is, sadly, on the rocks

    Leave: As we are not a part of the EU's Schengen area, does this give us more freedom over who enters out country, should we remain
    No. The concept of EU citizenship (itself a laudable idea) demands that citizens of EU states must be able to move freely around the EU. Schengen simply means that citizens can do this with limited border checks, the same essential rights exist whether we opt in or out of Schengen, that is, unless we #VoteLeave and Take Control!

    (Original post by adam9317)
    we have a deal with France which is made through the EU to ensure that vehicles travelling from France to the UK are checked by UK officers. If we leave the EU, this deal will be stopped
    No reason to suppose this will be stopped, or that if the French were tempted we couldn't negotiate a sensible solution (Eurotunnel is joint venture, and this plus ferry travel has joint benefits for both nations who have worked in partnership for hundreds of years)

    we should let these people in (who have a benefit to our economy, may I add) and at least allow them some refuge until issues like the conflicts in Syria and Somalia are over
    Firstly, we have no obligation to accept refugees who have travelled through any number of other safe territories, travelling half way around the world, to get here. Secondly, we have always, and will continue to, do our bit to support people in need all over the world. Thirdly, contrary to what large portions of the left-leaning media may have you believe, according to the latest research, unfortunately the net fiscal impact of non-EU migrants is a cost in the order of £15bn per year

    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    We could re-enter the single market, at the cost of re-allowing freedom of movement of EU citizens into the UK (and UK citizens into the EU) and having to follow the vast majority of EU regulations, or alternatively, strike a trade deal without entering the market which would include tariffs, those same EU regulations and very likely, freedom of movement. What I’m trying to say here is, there is no way we can control EU migration
    That sounds a lot like defeatism to me, and in no way tallies with the analysis I presented in my opening statement. We are very well placed to secure decent trade deals on our terms. We need to believe in Britain!

    The EU has legislated for workers rights, maternity rights and so many more, protecting you from any employers willing and trying to exploit you
    We can agree on the first part, the EU has been a force for good, but as Digby Jones recently said, it lost its way e.g. in the 90s and is fast turning into a failed project. I should also note that most employers do not want to exploit anyone, and to assume that they do is to impugn British commerce and industry. Let's not forget this country's proud record on progressivism, from the abolition of slavery, through Women's Suffrage, to appointing/electing a female Prime Minister

    (Original post by RuWill2001)
    200 healthcare professionals pledged their support for Remain. In the letter they stated "We have made enormous progress over decades in international health research, health services innovation and public health. Much has been built around shared policies and capacity across the EU"
    All well and good, but then we are seeing maternity units literally having to close their doors, you soon find that the public has less time for such fuzzy, peripheral, generic obersvations

    If The EU is destroying our NHS (and other public services) I am sure the health professionals would be supporting a Brexit, which they are not
    When I've been out campaigning I've encountered mixed opinions among health and social workers. They're a mixed bag, just like us Brexiters!

    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    Almost 5% of the entire NHS workforce are EU Migrants.

    Almost 10% of the NHS England doctors are EU Migrants
    Migrants certainly make a meaningful contribution to staffing, but these figures are as nothing compared with the 1,000,000 short and long term migrants who entered the UK in 2015 alone. The strain on public services, and transformation of towns and cities, is plain for all to see
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    (Original post by adam9317)
    2 minutes then we are moving on, lets wrap it up folks
    :yy:
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    (Original post by RayApparently)
    I'll remind you that this is the free movement debate.

    But anyway, we the people do have more say in the EU than outside it as MEPs vote on trade agreement conditions. Take the EU away and behind closed doors such dangerous, radical measures akin to the TTIP that's currently being discussed wreck our public services that much more easily.
    So we should remain in the EU to have secret negotiations instead of secret negotiations?
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    Opening statement

    This is a short debate so I'm going to give a fairly large opening speech.You are going to hear from the other side that the UK is not sovereign under the EU, you will be told that the EU is undemocratic and unfair. All of this is patently wrong.

    The EU has its legislative agenda set out by the commission, now you might scream "but the commission is unelected!" But that simply isn't the case. The President of the Commission was directly elected by the People of the EU as he is selected because he is the Presidential candidate of the largest EU party and commanded the confidence of the Parliament. The High Representative of the EU is often from a different Party (often the Second most voted for EU party) and acts as the De Facto deputy leader of the commission. In this way it is ensured that not one single party has control of all the legislative process. Again, it should be noted that this person has to be elected by the council and the Parliament to be elected.

    The rest of the commissioner are appointed by member states to which you will say "ah ha!! They are unelected", well not really. They are us elected as any minister sitting in the House of Lords. The parliament of the day for each country appoints someone to go the the commission, they are given a brief by the President of the commission, who can also sack them if he thinks they are doing a bad job, and they act like the cabinet for the EU. They even have weekly meetings on a Wednesday to discuss EU issues. And you might be told that they can't represent you but that's good!!! How would you like it if David Cameron decided he doesn't care about the whole of the U.K. and he's just going to make life great in Whitney and ignore the rest of us? Unless you live in Whitney you'd be pretty annoyed and as well you should be!!! The cabinet of the EU should be making life better for everyone in the EU and not just for the people they represent.

    For my final point I'm going to say this:
    The commission can be dissolved at anytime by the parliament by a simple vote if the commission doesn't listen to the parliament.
    The parliament is elected by you the people every 5 years and the council is made up of national governments who are elected by you, the people.

    The mere notion of anyone unelected running the EU is complete poppycock.
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    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    In the end though, these are the facts when it comes to what the EU does for Brits across Europe.
    • Around 3.5 million British jobs are directly linked to British membership of the European Union’s single market – 1 in 10 British jobs.
    • 1.4 million British people live abroad in the EU.
    • More than 14,500 UK students took part in the European Union’s Erasmus student exchange scheme in 2012-13.
    • Driving licences issued in the UK are valid throughout the EU.
    • Equal pay for men and women is enshrined in EU law, as are bans on discrimination by age, race or sexual orientation. This benefits Britain and British people who live in other EU countries.
    Except Erasmus is open to Non EU states, infact a very significant number of participants are not in the EU, and as already discussed, all those rights you list were enacted into UK law before the EU even touched the matters. Once again, the remain campaign have to rely on things related to but not of the EU to argue their point.
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    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    In the end though, these are the facts when it comes to what the EU does for Brits across Europe.
    • Around 3.5 million British jobs are directly linked to British membership of the European Union’s single market – 1 in 10 British jobs.
    • 1.4 million British people live abroad in the EU.
    • More than 14,500 UK students took part in the European Union’s Erasmus student exchange scheme in 2012-13.
    • Driving licences issued in the UK are valid throughout the EU.
    • Equal pay for men and women is enshrined in EU law, as are bans on discrimination by age, race or sexual orientation. This benefits Britain and British people who live in other EU countries.
    • Around 3.5 million British jobs are directly linked to British membership of the European Union’s single market – 1 in 10 British jobs.

      What you dont say is that the EU single market stops those businesses working with other global leaders. The EU club is the new iron curtian on business.

      regulation is the enemy of free enterprise.
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    And to the remain side, an argument coming in from James. Thoughts on this?

    (Original post by james813)
    100,000 jobs in the fishing industry were lost due to EU policy. Their quota system has destroyed communities and makes fisherman throw back dead fish. On top of that, our territorial waters is divided up among other EU countries. Why should the EU be allowed to rule us on this?
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    Topic 3 question, sorry for the inconvenience

    ‘The European Union can create laws as a collective union to move the EU further and benefit the people, yet the fact that EU law is supreme to UK law- in certain circumstances, causes a problem for our lawmakers at Westminster’ What's your thoughts on this issue?
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    (Original post by illegaltobepoor)
    • regulation is the enemy of free enterprise.
    ???

    Regulation is necessary for true economic freedom.
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    (Original post by Aph)
    Opening statement

    This is a short debate so I'm going to give a fairly large opening speech.You are going to hear from the other side that the UK is not sovereign under the EU, you will be told that the EU is undemocratic and unfair. All of this is patently wrong.

    The EU has its legislative agenda set out by the commission, now you might scream "but the commission is unelected!" But that simply isn't the case. The President of the Commission was directly elected by the People of the EU as he is selected because he is the Presidential candidate of the largest EU party and commanded the confidence of the Parliament. The High Representative of the EU is often from a different Party (often the Second most voted for EU party) and acts as the De Facto deputy leader of the commission. In this way it is ensured that not one single party has control of all the legislative process. Again, it should be noted that this person has to be elected by the council and the Parliament to be elected.

    The rest of the commissioner are appointed by member states to which you will say "ah ha!! They are unelected", well not really. They are us elected as any minister sitting in the House of Lords. The parliament of the day for each country appoints someone to go the the commission, they are given a brief by the President of the commission, who can also sack them if he thinks they are doing a bad job, and they act like the cabinet for the EU. They even have weekly meetings on a Wednesday to discuss EU issues. And you might be told that they can't represent you but that's good!!! How would you like it if David Cameron decided he doesn't care about the whole of the U.K. and he's just going to make life great in Whitney and ignore the rest of us? Unless you live in Whitney you'd be pretty annoyed and as well you should be!!! The cabinet of the EU should be making life better for everyone in the EU and not just for the people they represent.

    For my final point I'm going to say this:
    The commission can be dissolved at anytime by the parliament by a simple vote if the commission doesn't listen to the parliament.
    The parliament is elected by you the people every 5 years and the council is made up of national governments who are elected by you, the people.

    The mere notion of anyone unelected running the EU is complete poppycock.
    I would advise people to take a long read of what you see above. Ask yourself this. Its hard enough as it is right now to get young people involved into politics. How hard is it going to be when the EU commission sounds like a Jigsaw puzzle which takes a A level maths student to understand?

    Democracy should be simple so its available to everyone of any IQ.
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    (Original post by RayApparently)
    ???

    Regulation is necessary for true economic freedom.
    The difference between regulation to us and regulation to Europeans is that to them "unregulated" is practically equivalent to "illegal" everything needs regulating, and this leads to over regulation, something dangerous to economies, and one of the biggest factors in Britain's decline. When Britain was booming we had very little regulation, in the post war years we regulated to the hilt and were hit hard by it, while over in Germany regulation was loose and they boomed
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    (Original post by RayApparently)
    ???

    Regulation is necessary for true economic freedom.
    Name some heavily regulated countries which are currently booming?
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    (Original post by adam9317)
    Topic 3 question, sorry for the inconvenience

    ‘The European Union can create laws as a collective union to move the EU further and benefit the people, yet the fact that EU law is supreme to UK law- in certain circumstances, causes a problem for our lawmakers at Westminster’ What's your thoughts on this issue?
    I agree, The EU has has the power to take on and challenge Multi National Companies. If The UK left The UK, we would simply not be able to do this.
 
 
 
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