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    (Original post by NickLCFC)
    If we Remain then I can only hope for the further rise of UKIP.

    In recent polls, they already have a ~20% share of the general election voting intention and their popularity will continue to rise if we remain in the EU. Immigration concerns and Euroscepticism will never go away.

    Regardless, I will still vote Leave (with my own black pen ) later on today and hope for the best.
    if we remain national socialism will rise like spraying a fire with petrol.
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    (Original post by NickLCFC)
    If we Remain then I can only hope for the further rise of UKIP.

    In recent polls, they already have a ~20% share of the general election voting intention and their popularity will continue to rise if we remain in the EU. Immigration concerns and Euroscepticism will never go away.

    Regardless, I will still vote Leave (with my own black pen ) later on today and hope for the best.
    Immigration concerns and Euroscepticism will simply be replaced with something else. I am tempted to leave though just to see what people will blame next.
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    Can i say first and foremost please make sure you bring a black pen with you to the voting polls. Secondly i am here today to say that i would hugly advice VOTE LEAVE for many reasons including Protential growth, 100% control and outragious weekly fees for what exactly?

    If we left the EU we could have a protential growth in the UK economy by 200% within the next five years. We could do this as if we left the EU the worth of the sterling will decrease and therefore exporting will become cheaper, this will allow us to save our UK businesses like Tata steel. The govenment say that the rise in the national minimum wage is a good this however it is not that simple. Yes the rise in the national minimum wage can give the working class an extra 50 pence per hour. The huge and devestating problem with this the fact that business owners cant afford to give there workers this pay rise so products rise and unemployment rises with it. This is one reason why we should vote leave and then have a general election. VOTE LEAVE .

    If we left the EU we would gain control of our borders and country. Fish mungers are being told not to collect more than a limited amount of fish per week due to a man in brussles ordering them not to. This is outragious and the price in fish has risen due to this. If we left the EU we would also be able to control our borders. This means that we can save our country millions a year due to migrants claiming benifits and abusing them (watch 'life on the dole ' on channel five yesterday), this is another reason why we should leave the EU. VOTE LEAVE.

    Another reason to leave the EU would be the outragious weekly fee we pay to be in the EU '350 million' for what i wonder? Protection in war? We had aliances before the EU and will after the EU. "Protection " ... We didnt get protection when England was in war against the irish did we , if anything the USA helped them by supplying them with guns.This is anothet reason why we should leave the EU. VOTE LEAVE.

    Overall i believe we shoule leave the EU for all the points above and more #Voteleave #BREXIT
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    Serious question: why are Brexiters such spammers? ALL the threads that I see were started by Brexiters. "Why are young people so stupid and vote for IN?". "What will you do when we get our independence from the dictatorship of the EU?". "Why Bremainers are pussies: Vote OUT".
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    (Original post by xyz9856)
    Have you ever heard of the infamous Twain quote: "there are lies, damn lies and statistics"? As far as I can see, there is no information that I can trust. It is easy to manipulate a statistical model to present information in a certain manner.
    That's a good point. But what does the logic of the situation tell you?

    a) Have large manufacturers (Nissan, Ford, General Motors…) set up bases in the UK in order to serve the UK market, or in order to get access to the EU market as a whole?

    b) Have non-EU financial institutions and law firms established themselves in the UK in order to have a good view of the Thames, or to service clients all throughout the EU?

    c) Is it cheaper for a UK consumer to buy food produced in the EU, or to have it shipped halfway around the world (from our Commonwealth outposts, or South America)?

    d) Do you think that it is better for the UK to go it alone on environmental matters, or to work closely with our near neighbours?

    e) Are there important issues in which the UK needs to work closely with its near neighbours: eg policing, energy security (ie that the UK has enough energy to serve the population), common product standards...?

    f) Do you really want to trust your hard won rights (employment, consumer, business, etc) to right-wing Tory nutjobs like Gove and Villiers, or buffoons like Johnson?

    You don't need statistics to find the answers. Examine the issues in your head, and the answers become obvious. I'll suggest what I think:

    a) Large manufactures have come to the UK because the government has encouraged them to do so. It has given them incentives of different forms, and we speak English - the lingua franca of global business. So, those decisions could well be independent of the UK's EU membership. However, a large portion of their output is destined for the rest of the EU - that's our market of 65 million and the rest of the EU's 440 million.

    If there are barriers to entry into the EU market - and it's hard to see how there would not be (we're not going to LEAVE and have access to the single market) - then it seems likely to me that these manufacturers will start shifting their production to be within the EU. It'll just be cheaper for them - no matter what incentives the government gives.

    The case the economists working for LEAVE put forward is that all manufacturing in the UK will effectively cease.

    b) I think this is the same as for the manufacturers, pretty much. Bankers and lawyers, within the EU, enjoy freedom of establishment, and their qualifications are largely recognised in their professional capacities, across the EU. I think it is inevitable that these firms will transfer at least some of their business into the EU, if the UK leaves. There are rumours around that law firms have already made some contingency planning in this area, having their lawyers registered in Ireland (while they still can).

    c) Take a look at the price of strawberries in the Winter as opposed to the Summer - the costs of all that transportation add up. No one can really ignore this fact - no matter how cheap the labour may be elsewhere.

    d) One of the best examples of EU cooperation and leadership has been over environmental issues, in particular global warming. We are struggling to get the USA, China or many other states to recognise the issues - but at least we have realistic targets and frameworks in the EU for combating carbon usage.

    e) The EU has a long-term strategy for energy security - largely because many of the sources of energy that we use are volatile (imports from Russia, the Middle East or North Africa). There are electricity grid interconnectors between the UK and France, Republic of Ireland and the Netherlands (as well as Northern Ireland). The EU connectors have a total capacity of 4GW of capacity. There is a plan to add 7.3GW to that capacity by 2021, with connectors to Denmark, Norway and Belgium, as well as further connectors to France, Netherlands and Ireland.

    There are also interconnectors running between most of the states of the rest of the EU.

    I'll give you a clue on this: apart from the connectors to Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, most of the movement of electricity is into the UK - ie we import a lot of power.

    f) People keep saying that we had many of our employment and consumer rights before the UK joined the EU. This is simply not true. Equal pay for women was put into UK law as a requirement of joining the EEC in 1973. The Working Time Directive (WTD) gave all UK workers four weeks annual paid holiday (an increase from the UK statutory minimum of three weeks). The government at the time, under pressure from business, fudged the WTD - not extending the holiday entitlement to temporary workers. The ECJ ruled that this was incompatible with the UK's obligations, and eventually temporary and agency workers were given the same rights.

    Did a foreign court overrule the UK government? I suppose it depends how you view the ECJ (or now the CJEU). I think it is just an extension of our own courts, something that the UK has agreed to participate in, in order to trade fairly and freely with the rest of the members. Even if a foreign court did overrule the UK government, at lest they were doing it for the benefit of UK workers.

    Likewise, the distance selling protection you get as a consumer - where you can easily return goods bought via the internet (or other distance selling methods) comes directly from the EU.

    Can you really trust a bunch of right-wing Tories to retain those rights for you? When they talk about cutting "red tape" what do you really think they mean? Michael Gove is one of the plotters trying to prevent you exercising your rights under the European Convention of Human Rights, enshrined in the Human Rights Act. How can you trust him to protect your employment or consumer rights?
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    (Original post by illegaltobepoor)
    if we remain national socialism will rise like spraying a fire with petrol.
    It is the LEAVE campaign that is stirring-up all this nationalist crap. Just spreading intolerance and hate in the wind in order to win an argument that no one really wanted anyway.

    At the Nuremberg Trials Joseph Goebbels was asked, as the chief propagandist of the Nazi regime, how it was that you got ordinary people to go off and fight, and die? He gave a simple explanation: "You just tell them that people are coming to attack them".

    So the LEAVE campaign must have closely studied the art of propaganda - all they tell us that people are coming to take our jobs, our homes, our schools and public services.

    This neatly sidesteps the fact that the government is in the middle of an austerity campaign, cutting government support for all of these things.
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    (Original post by typonaut)
    It is the LEAVE campaign that is stirring-up all this nationalist crap. Just spreading intolerance and hate in the wind in order to win an argument that no one really wanted anyway.

    At the Nuremberg Trials Joseph Goebbels was asked, as the chief propagandist of the Nazi regime, how it was that you got ordinary people to go off and fight, and die? He gave a simple explanation: "You just tell them that people are coming to attack them".

    So the LEAVE campaign must have closely studied the art of propaganda - all they tell us that people are coming to take our jobs, our homes, our schools and public services.

    This neatly sidesteps the fact that the government is in the middle of an austerity campaign, cutting government support for all of these things.
    Have you researched the kind of austerity which the EU and IMF forced onto Greece?
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    OP, if you really think our democracy is so dodgy you shouldn't vote to empower it.
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    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    OP, if you really think our democracy is so dodgy you shouldn't vote to empower it.
    going to vote leave eu to upset all the lil hitlers. going to use ink to upset the manipulators and going to spend all day tomorrow telling ppl why they should vote leave
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    (Original post by Richard.T)
    Can i say first and foremost please make sure you bring a black pen with you to the voting polls. Secondly i am here today to say that i would hugly advice VOTE LEAVE for many reasons including Protential growth, 100% control and outragious weekly fees for what exactly?
    You must be completely deranged!?

    If we left the EU we could have a protential growth in the UK economy by 200% within the next five years.
    If we could do this UK businesses would be doing this. There's noting in the EU treaties that stops UK businesses trading outside the EU, or establishing themselves outside the EU.

    We could do this as if we left the EU the worth of the sterling will decrease and therefore exporting will become cheaper, this will allow us to save our UK businesses like Tata steel.
    Tata steel is failing because it is facing dumping from outside the EU, chiefly from China - so it cannot compete. Only EU-wide protection for our industries can try to prevent this kind of abuse. If the value of sterling decreases, then prices will rise, because many or our goods and services are imported.

    The govenment say that the rise in the national minimum wage is a good this however it is not that simple. Yes the rise in the national minimum wage can give the working class an extra 50 pence per hour. The huge and devestating problem with this the fact that business owners cant afford to give there workers this pay rise so products rise and unemployment rises with it. This is one reason why we should vote leave and then have a general election. VOTE LEAVE .
    The minimum wage is nothing to do with the EU. Successive UK governments have effectively subsidised UK businesses through having a low minimum wage, and topping-up the wages of workers with social security benefits. More people are currently in employment in the UK than at any time in the past.

    If we left the EU we would gain control of our borders and country. Fish mungers are being told not to collect more than a limited amount of fish per week due to a man in brussles ordering them not to. This is outragious and the price in fish has risen due to this. If we left the EU we would also be able to control our borders. This means that we can save our country millions a year due to migrants claiming benifits and abusing them (watch 'life on the dole ' on channel five yesterday), this is another reason why we should leave the EU. VOTE LEAVE.
    The price of fish has increased because stocks have been depleted - over fishing. If we did not have an EU-wide policy on this issue we would still need a UK fish stock preservation regime. And guess what, fish aren't that interested in where UK territorial waters start, they just swim around where they like.

    Another reason to leave the EU would be the outragious weekly fee we pay to be in the EU '350 million' for what i wonder? Protection in war? We had aliances before the EU and will after the EU. "Protection " ... We didnt get protection when England was in war against the irish did we , if anything the USA helped them by supplying them with guns.This is anothet reason why we should leave the EU. VOTE LEAVE.
    Everyone knows that the £350 million figure is a lie. A pointless lie at that because the real nett figure of £160 million is still pretty impressive. But, I believe that if we are spending that money each week on ensuring stability in Europe, one way or another, then it is worth it. The UK's contribution to the EU is about £8bn/year. This is considerably less than the UK's overseas aid budget (£12bn/year).

    As to Northern Ireland, it is widely regarded that the EU played a significant role in the eventual peace accord. Not in a proactive way, ie taking part in the talks. But in that it offered a model for Ireland that saw nationalism largely become a non-issue.

    Overall i believe we shoule leave the EU for all the points above and more #Voteleave #BREXIT
    You are exactly the kind of nutcase whose rants would cause most sane people to vote REMAIN. Keep ranting!
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    (Original post by illegaltobepoor)
    Have you researched the kind of austerity which the EU and IMF forced onto Greece?
    Greece borrowed too much money, and spent it. That's the fault of the Greek government, not the EU or IMF.

    What you are forgetting here is that the Greek people have had the option of the alternative, in a referendum - they voted to retain the euro as their currency. Because they understand that the alternatives are even less palatable.
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    (Original post by illegaltobepoor)
    going to vote leave eu to upset all the lil hitlers. going to use ink to upset the manipulators and going to spend all day tomorrow telling ppl why they should vote leave
    That's completely irrelevant to what he said.

    It's also highly idiotic.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
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    To all Leavers, bring a knife with you. Sign it in blood.
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    I'll bring my black pen, not for this reason just that I love the solid palladium Montblanc that I have in my stock selection at the moment
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    (Original post by jamesthehustler)
    I'll bring my black pen, not for this reason just that I love the solid palladium Montblanc that I have in my stock selection at the moment
    dam you is a real hustler
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    (Original post by illegaltobepoor)
    dam you is a real hustler
    it's worth $11,000 and I bagged it for £2500
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    if I wanted to I could get more than what I paid by melting down the palladium for scrap but if it doesn't sell I'll keep it for a while then sell it down in Chichester as there are a few quality dealers that would want to buy it and I'll get a meisserstruck from the Montblanc dealer there as it's far cheaper at about a £1,000
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    No-one should tell anyone else what to do everyone has their own choice.
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    (Original post by typonaut)
    Greece borrowed too much money, and spent it. That's the fault of the Greek government, not the EU or IMF.

    What you are forgetting here is that the Greek people have had the option of the alternative, in a referendum - they voted to retain the euro as their currency. Because they understand that the alternatives are even less palatable.
    Actually it was the fault of the EU because the EU control the ECB who printed the money for Greece to loan ........

    You know nothing.
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    (Original post by jamesthehustler)
    it's worth $11,000 and I bagged it for £2500
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    if I wanted to I could get more than what I paid by melting down the palladium for scrap but if it doesn't sell I'll keep it for a while then sell it down in Chichester as there are a few quality dealers that would want to buy it and I'll get a meisserstruck from the Montblanc dealer there as it's far cheaper at about a £1,000
    Same thing for getting Gold n Silver @ spot price in London but to be honest for the sake of a few quid Im not going to fill my lungs with London smog. The air quality is terrible in the capital.
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    I did!
 
 
 
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