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People who voted remain who aren't being dramatic and ridiculous post Brexit decision Watch

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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    Uncertainty is a market force. They dont like surprises and unknowns. That is what we have entered. They like long steady and predictable. At the moment there are three types of people, the optimists, who think what has happened is good for the economy (Brexiters), those who are unsure( neutrals who will wait and see) and tise who believe it was a bad idea (the pessimist remainers).

    Hopefully the brexiters will keep the economy going, carry on investing and spending as the other groups will wait and see or just cut spending. Public confidence in the economy is crucial.

    The certainty by being in the EU is because we have 40 years experience and its a better the devil you know argument. Until they have negotiated the deal we dont know whether we have access to the single market, what goods might have tariffs etc. That unknown means we need to negotiate as quickly as possible as well as get the best terms possible. Until that is sorted we have further uncertainity . negotiations will be 2.5 years, then another 5-10 years till we know how that pans out.
    But shouldn't we think about politics and what is best for our country over that time scale anyway? Of course it is easy to say well it's gonna be a bit hard in the short term so lets not bother. We should be thinking about this over the next 10-20 years not the next 1-2 years.
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    (Original post by Doctor_Einstein)
    I voted leave and I agree that Brexiters should be in charge rather than remainers as we know better.
    Lol okay, but it is likely that the replacement PM will be pro-Brexit anyway.
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    (Original post by Cecily Neville)
    It is entirely fair. It is a complete over reaction.

    Of course companies are concerned right now.

    Scotland wants to leave primarily because of the prominence of Tory and Nulab politics in England. It is an anti-Westminster war they are waging and Brexit is just convenient to that vision.
    I don't want to derail your thread discussing this or get into an argument about this but it isn't a overreaction. People feel terrified, companies are concern as you admit and this is likely to lead to job losses so I don't get how you can call it a overreaction that people aren't happy about being forced to live with these circumstances; finding jobs has been made harder and economic security is out the window.

    Yes Scotland was been after independence but this is the final nail in the coffin of keeping them. They are packing, they will be out the door soon. That is not good for the UK (although seeing how divided we are, we really need a better name.)

    I get you're trying to look rationally at the situation, and thats admirable, but please don't dismiss peoples fears as "young people who don't know anything" or "whiny lefties". There are legitimate reasons why people are afraid, it is not looking good and it isn't a small wobble; this is a long term issue the UK faces.
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    I actually think it's a good thing too, albeit for different reasons. Mainly:

    First: the brexiters will be held to account. David Cameron in resigning has left a poisoned chalice in terms of declaring article 50 for Boris. Look at Boris, he knows he ****ed up.

    Secondly: when we rejoin the EU, it will be as a fully integrated member, euro and all, and thus in the long term be better for Britain, Europe and the world.
    I think your second point is pretty unlikely - the Euro is going to collapse in its current form at least long before we get to that point, if we do.

    The first is already happening - it looks like a big public backlash is building against Johnson, Gove and co and I suspect the Tories as a whole.
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    (Original post by elitepower)
    I don't want to derail your thread discussing this or get into an argument about this but it isn't a overreaction. People feel terrified, companies are concern as you admit and this is likely to lead to job losses so I don't get how you can call it a overreaction that people aren't happy about being forced to live with these circumstances; finding jobs has been made harder and economic security is out the window.
    'finding jobs has been made harder' it's been two days. What are people terrified about?

    Yes Scotland was been after independence but this is the final nail in the coffin of keeping them. They are packing, they will be out the door soon. That is not good for the UK (although seeing how divided we are, we really need a better name.)
    Seriously, if you truly care about keeping Scotland part of the UK we should stop voting Tory governments in because that is their biggest problem

    I get you're trying to look rationally at the situation, and thats admirable, but please don't dismiss peoples fears as "young people who don't know anything" or "whiny lefties". There are legitimate reasons why people are afraid, it is not looking good and it isn't a small wobble; this is a long term issue the UK faces.
    I'm a young person and I am a lefty. this is nothing to do with age or political leaning, this is to do with people hating change and claiming ridiculous things that simply aren't true because they are fearful. What does 'it is not looking good' even mean?. you are literally talking about stuff in the immediate aftermath when NOBODY can see the woods from the trees.
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    (Original post by Cecily Neville)
    But shouldn't we think about politics and what is best for our country over that time scale anyway? Of course it is easy to say well it's gonna be a bit hard in the short term so lets not bother. We should be thinking about this over the next 10-20 years not the next 1-2 years.
    You have to look in the short, medium and long term.

    People who are losing their jobs and businesses which lose money are more concerned about staying solvent rather than jam tomorrow. When piblic sentiment returns people will have confidence to start spending again.

    We will know with a year what the immediate impact has been on the economy.
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    (Original post by Cecily Neville)
    But shouldn't we think about politics and what is best for our country over that time scale anyway? Of course it is easy to say well it's gonna be a bit hard in the short term so lets not bother. We should be thinking about this over the next 10-20 years not the next 1-2 years.
    Long term it's hard to see how the Brexit can be anything but bad for us, even if we stay in the single market, there will be a price to be paid. The main EU members can't afford to let us go without at least some punishment, even if light, to encourage the others. In addition, we won't be at the heart of major trade negotiations.

    In an unstable world, with high potential for recession in all of the major economies, it's even less likely that things are going to turn out nicely. Britain has to have a bigger role than being an offshore tax haven, which is basically the one that people like Farage and Johnson represent.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    I think your second point is pretty unlikely - the Euro is going to collapse in its current form at least long before we get to that point, if we do.

    The first is already happening - it looks like a big public backlash is building against Johnson, Gove and co and I suspect the Tories as a whole.
    That's the best thing about Brexit for me, I think it will catalyse a political awakening and a mass realisation how bad the Tory's have been for our society in recent years and how their ideology is the wrong way to govern this country.

    I mean, it's not ideal that we had to leave the EU for this to be realised but I think that more young people will turn out now in GE and take control over the future of this country.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Long term it's hard to see how the Brexit can be anything but bad for us, even if we stay in the single market, there will be a price to be paid. The main EU members can't afford to let us go without at least some punishment, even if light, to encourage the others. In addition, we won't be at the heart of major trade negotiations.

    In an unstable world, with high potential for recession in all of the major economies, it's even less likely that things are going to turn out nicely. Britain has to have a bigger role than being an offshore tax haven, which is basically the one that people like Farage and Johnson represent.
    If you think the Euro is going to collapse, what do you think is the future of the EU more generally though, with or without us?
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    You have to look in the short, medium and long term.

    People who are losing their jobs and businesses which lose money are more concerned about staying solvent rather than jam tomorrow. When piblic sentiment returns people will have confidence to start spending again.

    We will know with a year what the immediate impact has been on the economy.
    And at that point (within a year) I am happy to start discussing with some numbers about the impacts of this decision. But right now, none of us can, and that's what I wish remainers would stop claiming, that they have a crystal ball of some sort.
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    (Original post by Cecily Neville)
    And at that point (within a year) I am happy to start discussing with some numbers about the impacts of this decision. But right now, none of us can, and that's what I wish remainers would stop claiming, that they have a crystal ball of some sort.
    Trade figures are reported every 3 months. Company figures are reported all the time. people will be be keen to gain any information as to which way it is going to help them decide whether to invest in the UK or go elsewhere.

    For people who lose their jobs now, due to companies relocating or deciding not to invest in the UK, then they are bothered about the here and now.
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    (Original post by Cecily Neville)
    If you think the Euro is going to collapse, what do you think is the future of the EU more generally though, with or without us?
    I think its already looking increasingly unstable, even after this vote, which isn't the final story, as we don't yet know what sort of affiliation the UK will continue to have with the EU.

    The Euro is in reality desperately bad for Southern Europe - Italy has been stuck in zero growth, unemployment is staggering there and in Spain, Greece as we know just lurches from crisis to crisis. I don't believe German austerity policies offer any solution and the current effect is to maintain German living standards at the expense of everyone else in the Eurozone, so it's understandable that even the French now want out.

    The basic confusion for all of those countries is between the Euro and the EU - the latter would have been perfectly workable without the Euro - but the drive to federalism meant the Euro had to be spread to everyone.

    There will inevitably be a chaotic exit of Greece at some point from the Euro - and therefore effectively from the EU. That will cascade into Italy, Spain, France and also into the banking sector. The timetable is unclear, but this will probably happen in the next few years now.

    A remnant Euro of Germany, Austria, the Benelex countries and Denmark seems possible.
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    (Original post by Cecily Neville)
    And at that point (within a year) I am happy to start discussing with some numbers about the impacts of this decision. But right now, none of us can, and that's what I wish remainers would stop claiming, that they have a crystal ball of some sort.
    It's not really a question of a crystal ball, some effects are pretty obvious. For example, it was widely predicted that the £ would plunge on a Leave vote and this did happen.
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    (Original post by Cecily Neville)
    'finding jobs has been made harder' it's been two days. What are people terrified about?
    Two days with companies already coming out and saying they doubt their future in Britain. Two days where billions were lost. What are people terrified about? The rise of post referendum racism because racists now feel validated because they now believe 52% of people agree with them. The fact that it will be harder to secure jobs. The fact young people have been condemned to this decision that will massively effect the rest of their lives that they oppose. The fact Scotland is leaving and the consequences that will have on the economy.


    (Original post by Cecily Neville)
    Seriously, if you truly care about keeping Scotland part of the UK we should stop voting Tory governments in because that is their biggest problem
    I have never voted for the Tories and before the vote, I would have said you were right. However this isn't the case. Scotland don't see a union at all, they see a anchor dragging them into economic instability and a mess they don't support. It unreasonable to expect the people of Scotland to constantly be put upon by decisions they vehementally oppose on the slight possibility a decent government might eventually get elected. This is the last nail in the coffin, Scotland WILL go.

    (Original post by Cecily Neville)
    I'm a young person and I am a lefty. this is nothing to do with age or political leaning, this is to do with people hating change and claiming ridiculous things that simply aren't true because they are fearful. What does 'it is not looking good' even mean?. you are literally talking about stuff in the immediate aftermath when NOBODY can see the woods from the trees.
    The immediate aftermath looks poor. So no, I am not going to be thrilled that I now have to suffer a few rocky years because the Leave campaign lied. The long term aftermath doesn't look any better. To recover from this, we would need a competent government and thats nowhere to be seen. There is no plan and there is more chance this will be bad in the long term that good.

    We are going to go around in circles. You are not going convince me and I'm not going to convince you. But please - do not try to frame how people are taking this as overreacting. The news coming out is bad. The fact people feel terrified - are struggling to sleep because they are worried about job losses and the economy, are afraid to go out in case they are targeted by racists even if they are british but don't look the part, the Scottish who are disgusted to be dragged into this mess - do not discount that as people overreacting. It isn't going to be fine in a week, this is a long term mistake.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    It's not really a question of a crystal ball, some effects are pretty obvious. For example, it was widely predicted that the £ would plunge on a Leave vote and this did happen.
    But what does a short-term plunge in the £ mean in the longterm?
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    (Original post by Cecily Neville)
    But what does a short-term plunge in the £ mean in the longterm?
    Obviously in the case of a single market indicator like the value of currencies, it's difficult to say, but a reasonable guess is that the US dollar will strengthen in relation to both the Euro and the £. The rate between the Euro and the £ must be harder to call, because there will be economic dislocation and chaos on both sides for some years to come.
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    (Original post by Cecily Neville)
    I wanted to create a thread where people who actually voted remain could chat about what they now think post -Brexit decision but without all this hysteria and hyperbole being spouted by a lot of the remainers.

    I don't want to talk about whether it should have been a referendum for people to vote in because it was.

    I don't want to talk about whether old people should be allowed to vote because they were and should be.

    I don't want to talk about this momentary and inevitable dip in sterling to justify how terrible leaving is for the economy. It's not even been a week.

    I don't want to hear unsubstantiated predictions.

    I don't want to discuss things in this doom and gloom attitude like omg everything is terrible I'm ashamed to be British what about my future wah wah ****ing wah.

    I wanna discuss the benefits of Brexit in the long term, how we mitigate the short term issues, what to take away from the vote in terms of political awareness and demographic turn out and how Brexit will affect the mood towards party politics in years to come.

    I want to talk to remainers who actually didn't get emotional and ridiculous about the vote and who are thinking pragmatically about the future of the U.K.

    I've had enough of irony and whinging from the remain voters and the sheer elitism and judgemental behaviour. I want to speak with other remain voters who are being rational and reasoned and not being divisive and stereotyping the majority of this nation.

    I have a few articles that I've read in the aftermath which have really resonated and made me feel positive about the future despite the fact the outcome was not what I wanted.


    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-0...economic-world

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/06...-young-people/

    http://hurryupharry.org/2016/06/26/i...-north-gromit/
    As a leave voter, it is you, and those like you, who voted remain, but want to make Brexit work who I have huge respect for. Positively engaging with the result means that your views can be heard and shape the kind of Britain we want, so thank you for posting this thread.
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    (Original post by toronto353)
    As a leave voter, it is you, and those like you, who voted remain, but want to make Brexit work who I have huge respect for. Positively engaging with the result means that your views can be heard and shape the kind of Britain we want, so thank you for posting this thread.
    Thank you for that. And yes, because I kind of think now it has been decided we should not be defined by what we voted, we are all in the same boat, and if remainers carry on like this it certainly won't fare well. It will be a self-fulfilling prophecy but I get the impression that's kind of what they want so they can say 'I told you so' to Brexiters because being right is more important than working together for the future of our country.
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    (Original post by toronto353)
    As a leave voter, it is you, and those like you, who voted remain, but want to make Brexit work who I have huge respect for. Positively engaging with the result means that your views can be heard and shape the kind of Britain we want, so thank you for posting this thread.
    That's so transparent. You only have 'respect' for her because she's accepted an outcome which you strongly advocated?


    So self-serving.
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    (Original post by Cecily Neville)
    Thank you for that. And yes, because I kind of think now it has been decided we should not be defined by what we voted, we are all in the same boat, and if remainers carry on like this it certainly won't fare well. It will be a self-fulfilling prophecy but I get the impression that's kind of what they want so they can say 'I told you so' to Brexiters because being right is more important than working together for the future of our country.
    I think that Remainers risk their voices being lost in this whole furore over a second referendum, but, as I say, by posting as you have, you actually promote a positive voice for the Remain side, allowing both factions (Leave and Remain) to work together to make Brexit work.

    (Original post by Twinpeaks)
    That's so transparent. You only have 'respect' for her because she's accepted an outcome which you strongly advocated?


    So self-serving.
    I have respect for OP not behaving like a three year old and throwing a tantrum because she didn't get the outcome she wanted. I have respect for OP for acting like an adult in trying to make this work and accepting democracy. What I don't have respect for are the Remainers who are behaving like cry babies because they didn't get their own way.
 
 
 
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