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POLL: What is your view of Jaysh Al Fatah (a terrorist group in Syria)? Watch

  • View Poll Results: What should we do about Jaysh Al Fatah?
    Ask Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and Turkey to stop sponsoring them
    5
    19.23%
    Designate the group as terrorist, and help efforts fighting it
    8
    30.77%
    Allow our Gulf allies to support them, Assad is worse
    1
    3.85%
    Consider them a terrorist group, but do nothing
    7
    26.92%
    Consider them a 'moderate' rebel group
    5
    19.23%

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    I think they're very efficient as a coalition, considering they're fighting Iran + Russia + Hezbollah + SAA.
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    (Original post by AlifunArnab)
    I think they're very efficient as a coalition, considering they're fighting Iran + Russia + Hezbollah + SAA.
    That's pretty diplomatic.

    Are you supporting the efforts of Jaysh Al Fatah in the syrian conflict?

    Do you want a syria inclusive of alqaeda groups, and alqaeda associated groups?

    You may also want to add 'Kurds' to that.
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    (Original post by Tawheed)
    That's pretty diplomatic.

    Are you supporting the efforts of Jaysh Al Fatah in the syrian conflict?

    Do you want a syria inclusive of alqaeda groups, and alqaeda associated groups?

    You may also want to add 'Kurds' to that.

    I want a Syria without Bashar.

    JaF have not really fought YPG as of yet.
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    (Original post by Tawheed)
    Not the time and place for a debate brothers.

    I ask you both sincerely to use the 'ask any question about shia islam thread' i made for this.

    The topic of the OP is not a shia-sunni one, it's a political one.

    IdeasforLife, who has become terribly secterian from being once loving and moderate, who has made many accounts and continued to hound me on the I-soc thread and promote shia-sunni hatred, who called me a rafidah and made indirect takfir on me, completely derailed my thread, but now i want it to return back to the topic.
    I apologize brother for this.

    Inshallah God will enlighten all of us to the truth.
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    (Original post by AlifunArnab)
    I want a Syria without Bashar.

    JaF have not really fought YPG as of yet.
    I want a syria where there is democracy, and where the syrian people are able to vote in who they wish to lead them, in free and open elections, whoever they want to choose. If that means Bashar is out, then that is what i am fully behind.

    However, there is a big difference in stating Bashar has to go, and praying for, praising, and supporting Alqaeda, don't you think ?
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    (Original post by Tawheed)
    I want a syria where there is democracy, and where the syrian people are able to vote in who they wish to lead them, in free and open elections, whoever they want to choose. If that means Bashar is out, then that is what i am fully behind.

    However, there is a big difference in stating Bashar has to go, and praying for, praising, and supporting Alqaeda, don't you think ?
    There is a big difference, but I'm unsure what you're trying to get at?

    Are you saying I support Al Qaeda?
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    (Original post by AlifunArnab)
    There is a big difference, but I'm unsure what you're trying to get at?

    Are you saying I support Al Qaeda?
    You have the floor now brother. You and i both acknowledge Jaysh Al Fatah is founded and composed of members who are either alqaeda affiliates, or consider alqaeda fighters as their brothers and work closely with them, or / and are founded by members of alqaeda.

    History and this forum will note if you ever issued a condemnation (without diverting the topic and turning it on me)? You have not only praised and prayed for ahrar asham, but have praised jaysh al fatah and support them in their efforts.

    You have a chance now to fully give me your views on Jaysh Al Fatah, i am al ears brother. - I call you brother because i deem you to be a muslim. I hope you won't go down IdeasforLife's route and regard me as a kaffir.
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    (Original post by Tawheed)
    You have the floor now brother. You and i both acknowledge Jaysh Al Fatah is founded and composed of members who are either alqaeda affiliates, or consider alqaeda fighters as their brothers and work closely with them, or / and are founded by members of alqaeda.

    History and this forum will note if you ever issued a condemnation (without diverting the topic and turning it on me)? You have not only praised and prayed for ahrar asham, but have praised jaysh al fatah and support them in their efforts.

    You have a chance now to fully give me your views on Jaysh Al Fatah, i am al ears brother. - I call you brother because i deem you to be a muslim. I hope you won't go down IdeasforLife's route and regard me as a kaffir.
    I've already given you my views on Jaysh al Fath.

    I consider them an efficient fighting force who are giving the regime + Iran a very difficult time.
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    imho all terrorists are :dolphin::dolphin::dolphin:holes who have trouble with their sexual development.
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    (Original post by AlifunArnab)
    I've already given you my views on Jaysh al Fath.

    I consider them an efficient fighting force who are giving the regime + Iran a very difficult time.
    With respect, you have, perhaps wisely, side-stepped the issue.

    Do you support Jaysh Al Fatah in their efforts?
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    what are your views on iran?
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    (Original post by Ibn Fulaan)
    what are your views on iran?
    That's totally side-stepping the question, and completely ignoring the topic of the thread, and the manner in which one engages in a forum discourse.

    The thread is about Jaysh Al Fatah.
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    (Original post by Ibn Fulaan)
    what are your views on iran?
    You have a great chance to convince me why i should back Jaysh Al Fatah. I don't want to sound as though i am judging anyone, but it really does seem that the users here seem a little bit ashamed of jaysh al fatah, or perhaps to openly say anything?

    If you are on haq, and jaysh al fatah is the right option as you believe, convince me brother.
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    (Original post by Tawheed)
    Also be careful what you say to ideasforlife, he was once moderate. Unlike you, he does not have the temperament and guile. An individual like him being so radicalised is dangerous.
    Could you possibly make one of your copy pastes about me. Like the "who is AlifunArnab" one. I feel it'll make your false claims more believable
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    (Original post by Tawheed)
    That's totally side-stepping the question, and completely ignoring the topic of the thread, and the manner in which one engages in a forum discourse.

    The thread is about Jaysh Al Fatah.
    I consider it related. It is not sidestepping the question it is straight up not answering it yet. It is no different to you replying "what do you say about abu talib" in reply to "is it haraam to curse the shaykhayn".

    I am not a child to be commanded at your whim.

    (Original post by Tawheed)
    You have a great chance to convince me why i should back Jaysh Al Fatah. I don't want to sound as though i am judging anyone, but it really does seem that the users here seem a little bit ashamed of jaysh al fatah, or perhaps to openly say anything?

    If you are on haq, and jaysh al fatah is the right option as you believe, convince me brother.
    In case it was ambigious I am not such a coward that I would hide my beliefs.

    I may reply after ramadan if i feel it is worth it.
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    (Original post by Ibn Fulaan)
    I consider it related. It is not sidestepping the question it is straight up not answering it yet. It is no different to you replying "what do you say about abu talib" in reply to "is it haraam to curse the shaykhayn".

    I am not a child to be commanded at your whim.
    The thread, after all, is about Jaysh al Islam. I have answered many of your questions in the past. You have a history of being ambigious with regards to these groups, and you have a chance to clarify your view here.

    I do not curse the shaykhan, and i take ay.fadlullah and ay.khamanei's view on this issue.


    In case it was ambigious I am not such a coward that I would hide my beliefs.

    I may reply after ramadan if i feel it is worth it.
    Alright, a simple paragraph would have sufficed to allow us to know your views, the idea that it may take a while for you to give your position on a group predominantly founded by the official alqaeda affiliate al nusra, and alqaeda member founded and cooperating group, dubbed the syrian taliban, ahrar asham, among other groups is telling.
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    (Original post by IdeasForLife)
    Could you possibly make one of your copy pastes about me. Like the "who is AlifunArnab" one. I feel it'll make your false claims more believable
    You have been adament in spreading secterianism, throwing around abusive words like 'rafidhi' at me, refusing to reply to my salams , accusing me of doing things i have made clear i do not (and proved it).

    You really have and had a chance to explain why you are backing jaysh al fatah.

    It is telling, that between you, Alifanularab, and Ibn Fulaan, you believe it is essential for the syrian arab army to fall , and by default, for groups like jaysh al fatah to win over them, yet you are not willing to discuss the aftermath, your opinion of these groups themselves.

    What do you think a group founded by members of alqaeda, alqaeda-member founded groups, spouting horrendous secterian/takfiri views, are going to be doing ?
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    (Original post by Tawheed)
    What do you think a group founded by members of alqaeda, alqaeda-member founded groups, spouting horrendous secterian/takfiri views, are going to be doing ?
    Respectfully, minus isolated incidents, I haven't actually heard of any mass organised persecution of Shia and Alawii in areas under their control.

    In many of the videos you have posted by Alloush (Rahimahullah), I have not actually heard him calling for sectarian genocide, rather his tone and words would indicate erradicating the influence of Alewwi and Shia from Shams, thus taking a more politcal agenda rather than a genocidal one. Naturally his rhetoric is very 'expressive' and somewhat harsh at times, but fundamentally I did not see him as the villain you see him as - in fact he seemed to be an effective commander capable of organising and uniting non-FSA groups whilst keeping a balance between more radical groups on one side and more moderate ones on the other, driving them collectively towards their common goal of ousting Bashar and removing Iranian influence in the region.

    Sure, using emotionally baiting terms like "Al-Queda founded" and "Takfiri" might appeal to some, but in my opinion that's copping out of a real critical appraisal of what the groups do and aim for as a whole, rather only focusing narrowly on rhetoric and labels. As others have said, there is an effective fighting force; and I do not see a genocidal horde ravaging Shams (other than ISIS and the supporters of Bashr), otherwise I would have seen and heard more about it, nor have I seen these groups espousing any desire to participate in the global jihad of Al-Queda.

    As a side point, Alloush calling OB Laden "Sheikh" does not actually mean much in the grandscheme of things other than as a distraction from the core drivers of the groups and the conflict - it does not suddenly mean he wanted to launch planes into Western buildings for bants. Sure you might disagree with his usage of it, as do I, but it hardly defines him or the groups he led. To appeal to that to paint him as some mad man with bad intentions is disingenuous in my opinion; it may work on non-Muslims who see it and have a knee jerk rejection, but it doesn't wash with me.

    My last point before you ask, I do not support any actual group per se in the conflict, rather I support ideals and aims e.g. ousting Bashar, breaking Iran's (and Russia's) influence, the installation of an Islamic leaning government which could repair the nation and gradually increase the taqwa of the people as to make way for the gradual implementation of Shariah principles whilst managing to not oppress or execute groups of religious minorities like the Alawii, Shia, Druze and Nasarah. I therefore support certain actions to support those aims but I dont care about the label behind it, so long as they are not ISIS or their allies.
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    (Original post by Tawheed)
    Alright, a simple paragraph would have sufficed to allow us to know your views, the idea that it may take a while for you to give your position on a group predominantly founded by the official alqaeda affiliate al nusra, and alqaeda member founded and cooperating group, dubbed the syrian taliban, ahrar asham, among other groups is telling.
    Thus i will now refuse to engage with you until you apologise for your thinly veiled accusations.

    How low does one have to stoop to accuse someone who would rather not waste his last 10 days? I don't believe there is anything simple about the issue nor do i belive a simple paragraph would do it justice.

    Fear Allah
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    (Original post by Ibn Fulaan)
    Thus i will now refuse to engage with you until you apologise for your thinly veiled accusations.

    How low does one have to stoop to accuse someone who would rather not waste his last 10 days? I don't believe there is anything simple about the issue nor do i belive a simple paragraph would do it justice.

    Fear Allah
    I have asked you about this issue for months(maybe a year?) dear brother, not just in Ramadhan. Like on the previous threads, you have refused to directly engage and clearly state your view on this.

    If i have offended you in anyway, then ofcourse, i apologise. However, let us not play victims here dear brother, and act as if what you have directly said of me and about me has been anything in comparison to a simple remark i made.

    Eitherway, if the reason why you are not willing to give a reply, but are willing to promote secterianism on these issues across the forums is simply because you want to make the most of the last ten days of Ramadhan, as we all seek to do inshAllah, then i absolutely support you in that, and may Allah azwj accept the good of what you do.

    You are my favourite user here with regards to those i engage with on shia sunni issues who come from a hanbali-type background. Unlike IdeasforLife, you actually debate with a little bit of dignity and respect.
 
 
 
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