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    In my view, Labour MPs were still far too emotional about the result of the EU referendum to have taken a step of this magnitude. Their emotions are understandable given that a key plank of Labour's foreign policy has just been destroyed, but they should have known better.[/QUOTE]

    However traumatic it is the referendum to me looks to be more catalyst than prime mover, the cracks have been there for a while, the vote on Syria being one of the more clear moments.

    I think all the parties (and not just in the UK) have to reinvent for the 21st century, if looked at historically the 19th century finished and then the start of the 20th century (post WW1) saw the decline of the Liberals and the rise of Labour, the 21st century looks to me like the demise of the broad church parties and the rise of the issue parties, the catch is for the UK that the FTP system does not fit well with the new realities.

    I cannot see how the Labour party can continue to embrace the width of views within it, David Starkey on "This Week " likened it to a party with three very different forces pulling at it:

    The PLP
    The members
    The needs/support of the wider electorate.

    The members look like they wish to move left, there is only limited signs that the electorate (as a mass) want such a shift but they also do not want the current crop of disconnected politicians and the PLP cannot see any sign of being a government if the party moves significantly to the left.

    However not to be partisan, Conservatives have the same sort of issues but at the moment these are not quite so much to the fore as they:

    a. Hold office
    b. Believe with Labour as it is they will continue to hold office for a long time.

    With them (as is often the Conservative way) for now pragmatism trumps conviction.

    If I could place a bet on the political outlook in thirty years time it would likely be something like:

    1. Some sort of PR style electoral system
    2. A range/spectrum of smaller parties with less dominance of a big two.
    3. A more negotiated governance amongst these parties.

    In effect a more continental model

    The irony of our leaving the EU may be that we will ourselves be governed by a more readily identifiable EU style politics.

    Having said all that I thought the SDP was the start of something similar , so I am not a very good Nostradamus.
    • Thread Starter

    (Original post by RF_PineMarten)
    I am not going to support a coup attemp that was pre planned and managed by a PR firm linked to Blairite politicians
    Is there any actual evidence for that claim?

    And by evidence I mean emails, text messages, other communications between the plotters, demonstrating their involvement and intent?

    "X knows Y and Y knows Z and they're all members of the Fabian Society" isn't exactly a strong case.
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