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    (Original post by Ellie4)
    :rolleyes: Are you calling deianra a geek wolfy? Cos that's what she'll get!
    And I'll have 6 AS's! Though not 'cos I'm a geek, I just picked the wrong subjects!
    nooooo *hooray for edit button* youre doin 6AS! shite more editing :eek:
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    (Original post by TheWolf)
    nooooo *hooray for edit button*
    Hehe, well take back your geeky comment about 6ASs too, don't call me a geek
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    (Original post by H&E)
    Have you ever tried doing it? I did 6 AS's while doing more extra-curricular stuff than almost anyone in my year of 170 people. I realise this thread started with a somewhat baseless generalisation, but that doesn't mean you have to continue in that vein.
    Yeah, that's very observant of you; but then every student mentioned (or most anyway, can't remember) got rejected from Oxbridge so probable would complain about Oxbridge in someway. I should of been more precise.
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    (Original post by TheWolf)
    nooooo *hooray for edit button* youre doin 6AS! shite more editing :eek:
    Heh, sorry I keep replying before you edit
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    A friend of mine with similar credentials got rejected from all 6 of her choices for History. It happens. She's now going to King's to study War Studies.
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    (Original post by BazTheMoney)
    Yeah, that's very observant of you; but then every student mentioned (or most anyway, can't remember) got rejected from Oxbridge so probable would complain about Oxbridge in someway. I should of been more precise.
    Just out of curiosity, Baz, what's the graduate admissions system like? Even more arcane and incomprehensible, or rather simpler?
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    (Original post by H&E)
    Just out of curiosity, Baz, what's the graduate admissions system like? Even more arcane and incomprehensible, or rather simpler?
    It's on a university to university basis, like the US, so there's more forms involved - and can be very confusing, especially when planning funding, ect. I found undergrad a piece of cake when it came to postgrad.
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    (Original post by deianra)
    In conclusion, Economics really is a bit of a lottery. Even if you are an excellent candidate, nothing is guaranteed. Sometimes universities just don't make the most logical choices. But keep your fingers crossed …and good luck!

    If anyone has any other nightmare cases, please PM me or reply and I will add to the list...

    Suggestions on how to be a better candidate

    1. Take Further Maths A-level, it will benefit you unbelievably. When asking universities about Further Maths, I found that the economics departments normally got quite excited. This is mainly because candidates with Further Maths tend to be either scientists, engineers or mathematicians. An economist with Further Maths is very much in demand.

    2. If you get a high mark in Economics AS-level (290+/300), mention it in your Personal Statement. Same goes with any school prizes in social sciences, top Fives....

    So whats ur point?
    The admissions tutors aren't stupid u know! IF someone had Straight A's and was rejected from All 6 unis....common there must ve been a good reason for it! So can’t say it’s a lottery!
    I think the info that you have provided is useless. It ONLY Discourages those people who haven’t got the perfect grades and considering doing economics at University.
    I think Economics is not much harder to get into than courses like Law, English and History.
    Having said that, I agree with the last two points that you made. A-level Further maths is indeed very useful and I ‘d encourage future economist to do it. If you haven’t done A-level further Maths you could always Do AS further Maths during year 13.
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    Re: oxbridge - my issue isn't with applicants rejected from oxbridge because when you have an interview you get a chance to show your ability and worth. Oxbridge admissions aren't faultless but their system makes the information we have been making judgements on less important.

    Where I see the 'lottery' is the other top universities, and my main worry is not that students are rejected from six universities (this is likely to be an anomaly or a reflection on a fault with the applicant/) but are rejected from four or five somewhat arbitrarily when they are more than worthy on paper and possibly more than capable intellectually.
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    (Original post by Amrad)
    but are rejected from four or five somewhat arbitrarily when they are more than worthy on paper and possibly more than capable intellectually.
    We can't really judge the former as we don't know ever other candidate who applied, for instance the university may say that the standard offer is ABB but if they only have 100 places, and 100 people predicted AAA apply, that goes about the window. Thus a candidate who seems worthy on paper, isn't "worthy" in practice.

    We can't judge the latter in the slightest, that's down to the admissions tutors and only the admission tutors - a candiadte we consider up to it, may not be good enough, and there's no way to prove for or against that judgement.

    Hamal - Bit harsh. She was only trying to help, and raised some good points, just the overall message was wrong.
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    (Original post by deianra)
    Um, dear, that's most people on this thread. Ellie, Amrad, Baz, H&E and me will have all done 6 ASs come end of Year 13. *looks pointedly*
    Plus, aren't you doing five? I don't appreciate being called a geek!

    Meh.
    :rolleyes: Naughty wolf.
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    Wow - this is certainly turning into some thread. All I can say is that, I agree that Economics is a very competitive course, but from experience of students in my school, I'd still say Medicine is more competitive (I too, like Deianra, know a highly qualified, straight A student getting 6 rejections for medicine).

    As to all those unlucky bad luck cases, I'm afraid that's probably what they are - just unlucky, bad luck cases. I agree with the person who earlier pointed out that you don't hear about the 10A* student who gets 6 offers, but you do hear about the 10A* student who gets 6 rejections. I sympathise with them, but, more often than not, the admissions tutor will have a reason for rejecting them, however tenuous it might be.

    And to those doing 6 AS levels - that's your choice, but the majority of people I know did only 3 or 4 at the most and still got good offers. I don't like to say this, but there may be a case of trying too hard. We all know tutors like a 'well rounded' individual, and some 6 AS people may have loads of extra-curricular stuff, but tutors could feasibly feel that, with 6 AS levels, students may not be able to devote as much time to extra-curricular activities as someone who is doing less AS-levels, and therefore may be less 'well-rounded'. I'm not knocking people who choose to do 5 or 6 AS-levels; that's your decision and I respect you for it, but from experience and the 'horror' stories I hear - it could be that an abundant supply of AS-levels could be a hindrance rather than a help. (note the use of 'could').

    Anyway, it's clear that people like Deianra and Ellie4 have a passion for economics, and I admire that. Horror stories are sad to hear, but I think this shows how a string of A*s does not grant an automatic right to acceptance, nor should it. Think of all those other students who may not have 10 A*s, but have a burning passion for economics. We obviously shouldn't deny them a place purely because of GCSE grades. I know people may argue then, 'What of the 10A* student who has a burning passion for economics?', but this just proves how hard it is for admissions tutors to differentiate between good, very good and extremely good individuals, but, alas, that's just the way it is.

    Either way, if you're interested in economics, you should definitely apply. If you don't suffer delusions of grandeur (such as believing you have a RIGHT to a place because of one reason or another), you'll be better able to take the rough with the smooth. I got 4 offers out of 6, and I consider myself extremely fortunate to have had such good fortune. Of course, the rejections hurt, but I accepted the tutors must have had a reason for rejecting me. Had I been rejected from all 6, now that would have been very hard to swallow - again, I can only sympathise with these people, but I'd like to think I could have tried not to be bitter and just accept that was the way it turned out.

    Overall, admissions can seem like a lottery, but by no means should that deter anyone, of any ability, to apply. If you are interested in economics, go for it - but remember to try and have one or two 'back up' choices. Even with 10A*s, I'd still recommend having a few unis that are not in the top 10 for economics, because I know I'd rather go to uni than be forced to take a gap year.
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    (Original post by deianra)
    foowise - A very good post. You deserve some rep but I'm all emptied out at present but I promise some later.

    I'm currently in the process of picking a non top 10 university to apply to and am feeling quite bitter about this. It hurts a bit that straight stars at GCSE are worth so little nowadays (though to be honest, I didn't really deserve them).

    H&E has mentioned earlier on that he does the most extra-curricular in his year of 170, as well as doing 6 AS-levels. I too will be doing 6 AS-levels and very few in my school could probably come close to me in the amount and quality of extra-curriculars I do. Taking on a large amount of AS-levels, in my opinion, means that you have better time management skills than most people. In general, these people also have to work less for their AS-level and so have more time to donate to other activities.

    Anyway, can I ask where your offers came from?
    "It hurts a bit that straight stars at GCSE are worth so little nowadays" - ?!!! Worth [b]less at Eton]/b], maybe.

    "Taking on a large amount of AS-levels, in my opinion, means that you have better time management skills than most people" - I disagree, I don't think picking so many A-Levels implies any of this; it implies that you wanted to do more subjects, for whatever reason. I would never suggest to anyone to pick so many thinking that the interviewers will be impressed; they're bothered about how good you are at their subject and very importantly, how keen you are about the subject and your attempts to answer questions.

    As for Further Maths, I disagree - If you're better at Economics/more keen than the other candidate then you will get a place, and not because one chose to pick a subject for the sake of impressing. If you chose it because you really like Maths and wanted to dedicate more of your study to maths because you enjoy it, then this would be good.
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    (Original post by deianra)
    Happy scenario 2:
    School: State
    GCSEs: 6A*s 4As
    ASs: AAAA (Maths, Further Maths, Physics and Economics)
    Extra-curricular: Nothing special.
    Rejected: None
    Accepted: Cambridge, LSE, UCL and Warwick (only applied to 4)
    OMG, someone with the same GCSE Grades as me (and from a state school) got all of his offers? Shock, horror. :rolleyes:

    AS Levels: What more do you want?

    Extra curricular: You mean that his school didn't spoon feed him things to do because his parents coughs up thousands, and that in his out of study time he just wanted to chill out and maybe play a bit of sport or go out to do something? So what if he hasn't selected things for the sake of filling in a form? I bet he was as keen and good at Economics as anyone and was well rounded; and when I mean well rounded, in terms of personality, character, responding to the interviewers etc, not just filling in a form.

    Rejected: None ----> Well done to him.

    You can't say Economics "is a lottery". I completely disagree. You're expecting that because you have good GCSE Grades, go to a good school and feel that doing extra cc's will "make you more well rounded", that you deserve to get a place more than "happy scenario 1" person.

    If it was like that, you may as well just let Eton/Winchester ran sack Oxford with their toffs - How good will that be?

    I met a kid this week called "Justin" - His GCSE Grades were 5 A's, 2 B's, 2C's and 1 D and in my opinion he deserves an Oxford place as much if more than even the "best" candidates.

    Good luck to him.
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    (Original post by deianra)
    Doing more AS-levels will show you have better time management skills, that's pretty obvious.

    I'm only taking Further Maths because it will help my Economics at university. Should I be shot?
    I don't mind Maths, in fact, I rather like it. But I'd much rather do English Literature or even History. In my opinion, it shows how much I like Economics because I've sacrificed the opportunity of doing English Literature for Further Maths - a subject which I'll have to work very hard at. Commitment and determinaition, no?
    "Doing more AS-levels will show you have better time management skills, that's pretty obvious." - No, it will show that you have coped with doing way more than necessary - You'd be better off doing more wide-reading in Economics, but it's your choice; you seem to be doing psychology on all possible oxford interviewees.

    "I'm only taking Further Maths because it will help my Economics at university. Should I be shot? " - No, but I can see how this wouldn't help if your impression of Further Maths is "it isn't that bad, it'll do, but it's a sacrifice because the interviewer might think it's great." Clearly you're overdoing it and you don't seem keen on doing the A-Level, just to get the printed A at the end.

    "But I'd much rather do English Literature or even History." - So why not do that then? They're all intertwined anyway, and if that's what you want to do, then you should have done it. Ohhh of course, more psychology on the interviewers.

    "Commitment and determinaition, no?" - Perhaps, but applying for and doing Economics shouldn't be a chore; hard work when it matters, yes, but not stressful in this respect. Why didn't you do History? Afraid that you will come across as not "unhumanly keen at Economics" and hence get rejected, therefore you pretend you enjoy Further Maths deeply and therefore took it?

    That's my honest views; good luck with your application.
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    (Original post by deianra)
    RE: Happy Scenario 2 Guy. He's struggling at Cambridge, thought of committing suicide his first year and was never happier for the fact that he scraped a 2:2. He said that it was nearly impossible, especially as he'd never really had to write an essay before.

    Cambridge must have rejected candidates who would have done better in their degree than he did, but they chose him. Not necessarily 'the best.' Oh, and to be fair, he did apply about 3 years ago when Economics was a lot less competitive A standard LSE Economics offer was still ABB then.
    "RE: Happy Scenario 2 Guy. He's struggling at Cambridge, thought of committing suicide his first year and was never happier for the fact that he scraped a 2:2. He said that it was nearly impossible, especially as he'd never really had to write an essay before." - Got in didn't he? If he screwed up later, then there must be reasons. None of my business what they were.

    Also, it was interested the little criteria you picked in portraying these applicants.

    I would have done it as:

    School:
    Family income:
    GCSE Grades:
    AS Grades:
    Personality and attitude:
    Keeness for the subject:


    That's it. Not the "let's take up things to spice up my form despite not really having a true interest in it" section. AKA: "Extra cc".
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    (Original post by deianra)
    Doing "way more than necessary" needs good time management skills. I'm doing wide-reading in Economics - you imply it's impossible to do both.

    It's not so much the interviewer would think it's great as 'it will really, really help Economics a lot.' I don't fancy learning the entirity of Further Maths A-level in my first term at university.

    Doing Economics isn't a chore; I like Maths, I like Economics. Maths is in my top five favourite subjects, just not the highest. I've always been an all-rounder, I like to balance out my subjects, but since Economics goes hand in hand with Further Maths, I'm prepared to do it. Yes it will help my application, yes that is a major factor in me choosing it.

    Face it dear, you're not doing AS Further Maths purely because you love the greatness of Maths, as much as you'd like to say that. You know it's going to help your Physics application.

    I like Maths. I like Further Maths, I just like English Literature a bit more.
    For the would-be Medics who would prefer not to be doing Chemistry, does that mean they shouldn't be a doctor?
    "Doing "way more than necessary" needs good time management skills. I'm doing wide-reading in Economics - you imply it's impossible to do both." - I implied that doing more because you're keen on it would be better.

    "It's not so much the interviewer would think it's great as 'it will really, really help Economics a lot.' I don't fancy learning the entirity of Further Maths A-level in my first term at university." - So you're going to do a course where your perceiton of this "so much maths" is "it's ok, guess it's worth the sacrifice"? Ohh, ok then, that sounds tremendously enthusiastic, esp. when it's a "lottery" as you described it. :rolleyes:

    "Face it dear, you're not doing AS Further Maths purely because you love the greatness of Maths, as much as you'd like to say that. You know it's going to help your Physics application." - No, I'm doing it because I enjoy Maths actually. I didn't do A2 Further Maths because I am not prepared to do 3 modules of stats when my interest mainly lies in Pure and Mechanics. Shock, horror, I don't see it as a sacrifice...
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    (Original post by deianra)
    For the would-be Medics who would prefer not to be doing Chemistry, does that mean they shouldn't be a doctor?
    Well done, you hit the nail on the head there. Dislike Chemistry -----> Forget about Medicine degree.

    Considering that Chemistry is so important in Medicine and all...
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    (Original post by deianra)
    The vast, vast majority of people in my Maths class are doing it because they need it for something - Engineering, Medicine, et cetera. They like it, but it is also necessary for their subject. I actually like Maths, and yet I still shouldn't be taking Further Maths according to you.

    Ellie4 is teaching herself AS Maths over the summer in order to take A2 Maths in September. She did not choose it originally, she chose it because she wanted to read Economics. What do you say to her then?
    They should be doing it because they really like Maths and hence they plan to take a maths related subject at uni.

    "I actually like Maths" - Really? This is what you said:

    ""Maths is in my top five favourite subjects"
    "I don't mind it, infact, I rather like it..."

    I wouldn't say slightly liking Maths but behind History, English Literature and so on is basis for your "great enthusiasm".

    "and yet I still shouldn't be taking Further Maths according to you" - If I drink coke, I drink it because I like it and want to; I don't drink it if I hate it when I have the option of drinking orange juice which I like.

    "Ellie4 is teaching herself AS Maths over the summer in order to take A2 Maths in September. She did not choose it originally, she chose it because she wanted to read Economics." - Does she like Maths? Does she enjoy Maths? If not, why bother doing it? It's not as if she's going to avoid it at Uni.
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    (Original post by Invisible)
    Well done, you hit the nail on the head there. Dislike Chemistry -----> Forget about Medicine degree.

    Considering that Chemistry is so important in Medicine and all...
    Chemistry is important for medicine, but it is not medicine. With every subject there are going to be parts you don't like. For economics you don't need Mechanics upto module 6, I love maths but find mechanics imensely boring yet I have to do some of, even though I prefer stats and it would be more useful for economics.
    Maths is part of Economics, but it is not economics, in the same way chemistry is part of medicine but it is not medicine.
 
 
 
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