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Chief Rabbi condemns 'offensive' Corbyn anti-Semitism comments Watch

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    (Original post by Thutmose-III)
    I'm sorry but there is no difference.

    If you want very bad things to happen to lots of Jews, you're an anti-semite. That's what anti-zionists want.
    Go on then, let's see you run with this. Justify the last bit.
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    I was pretty sure that what he meant by the "self-styled Islamic states" was countries like Saudi Arabia and Iran, as he did not say "the Islamic State" (correct me if I'm wrong). If he meant ISIS then that was an idiotic thing to say and was in poor taste, even though I understand what he was getting at.
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    Go on then, let's see you run with this. Justify the last bit.
    Anti-zionists want Jews in the Levant to be subject to a government that has a good chance of seeing them expelled en masse, if not killed.

    Many of them admit it openly, and the ones who don't are nonetheless calling for it indirectly. If you want an outcome that leads to millions of Jews being harmed, then you are an anti-semite. And if you fixate on the State of Israel to the exclusion of pretty much everything else, if you assert that the world's only Jewish state is somehow uniquely culpable in the moral sense, that it is uniquely evil, then you are an anti-semite. If you spread anti-semitic tropes (that Jews control the media, that they control world finance, that they eat the blood of children) and then repurpose it to attack Israel (that Israel and Zionists control the media, that they control world finance, that they harvest the organs of Palestinians) then you are an anti-semite



    Note the delight with which this woman talks about "6 million Jews" in Israel being expelled or murdered. Note the glee with which she denies the Holocaust. That is the face of modern anti-Zionism

    There are many people who disagree with Israeli policy. I'm among them, I want the occupation of the West Bank to end and the settlements to be dismantled. But when you cross the line into consistent delegitimisation of Israel and a determination to see its people killed or expelled, then you are an anti-semite
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    (Original post by meenu89)
    'For heavens sake man, go!'
    Found this hilarious, I watched it 10 times at least, laughing harder every time at the way Cameron shouted "go". You could actually hear the hurt and pain in Cameron's voice, a broken man attacking another broken man. Magical
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    (Original post by Thutmose-III)
    Brexiteers want EU citizens in the UK to be subject to a government that has a good chance of seeing them expelled en masse,
    Just sayin
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    Leaving aside the bulk of your largely irrelevant Gish Gallop, I'm going to address the parts that actually somewhat addressed my question.

    (Original post by Thutmose-III)
    Anti-zionists want Jews in the Levant to be subject to a government that has a good chance of seeing them expelled en masse, if not killed.
    This is simply you repeating your previous post in more words.

    Many of them admit it openly, and the ones who don't are nonetheless calling for it indirectly. If you want an outcome that leads to millions of Jews being harmed, then you are an anti-semite.
    Do anti-Zionists who support, for example, a binational state in all of what is now Israel and the Palestinian Territories support Jews being harmed, killed and expelled?

    Also, simply asserting that many or most of a particular group of people believe X is a poor argument, as if even if true it doesn't make belief in X a criteria of membership in the group. I think most who voted Leave did so for petty nationalist and or xenophobic reasons, but regardless of whether that's true, I certainly don't believe it to be an inherent part of voting Leave.
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    Does this guy ever think before he speaks?
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    Leaving aside the bulk of your largely irrelevant Gish Gallop, I'm going to address the parts that actually somewhat addressed my question.
    The fact I've made numerous points to which you feel incapable of responding or rebutting doesn't make it a Gish Gallop

    This is simply you repeating your previous post in more words.
    Err, nope. He asked me to explain my position and I did. Which part do you find confusing? I will endeavour to school you.

    Do anti-Zionists who support, for example, a binational state in all of what is now Israel and the Palestinian Territories support Jews being harmed, killed and expelled?
    Yes, because the practical effect of a binational state, which could only be imposed by forcible abolition of the Israeli state given the almost universal opposition to it in Israel, is to see Israeli Jews expelled from the Levant.

    Abelieve X is a poor argument, as if even if true it doesn't make belief in X a criteria of membership in the group
    It's clear you're struggling to grapple with my position. I've explained it quite clearly; the practical effect of the abolition of the Israeli state (which anti-Zionists seek) is the mass expulsion or murder of large numbers of Jews. If someone wishes large numbers of Jews to be harmed, they are anti-semitic as a matter of fact irrespective of intention or any deluded beliefs along the lines of "I'm a 'progressive'; I couldn't possibly be a racist/bigot"

    As for questions of overlapping beliefs, other people might argue "Not all anti-Zionists are anti-semites, but all anti-semites are anti-Zionists. Why is that?". That is not my contention as I have stated anti-Zionism is in and of itself anti-semitic. I'm merely adding some flavour and texture to the reality of anti-Zionist anti-semitism
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    (Original post by Thutmose-III)
    The fact I've made numerous points to which you feel incapable of responding or rebutting doesn't make it a Gish Gallop
    My response is that what you said was irrelevant. You gave of list of claims all following the same structure: "If you believe/do X, you are an anti-semite." However, you gave no justification or explanation, in any of them, as to why believing/doing X was an inherent part of anti-Zionism, which was the point in discussion. Without that, whether or not I agree with your the claims is not important, as it has no impact on the point in contention.


    Err, nope. He asked me to explain my position and I did. Which part do you find confusing? I will endeavour to school you.
    You said:
    (Original post by Thutmose-III)
    If you want very bad things to happen to lots of Jews, you're an anti-semite. That's what anti-zionists want.
    And then when I asked you to explain, you said:
    (Original post by Thutmose-III)
    Anti-zionists want Jews in the Levant to be subject to a government that has a good chance of seeing them expelled en masse, if not killed.
    All you did was specify what the "very bad things" are, and expanded from anti-Zionists wanting this to happen to wanting a government that would do it. Not really much explanation.

    Yes, because the practical effect of a binational state, which could only be imposed by forcible abolition of the Israeli state given the almost universal opposition to it in Israel, is to see Israeli Jews expelled from the Levant.
    Why is it?

    Also, it's quite a jump of logic to suggest that someone who supports a policy that is currently unpopular must want to forcibly impose it, rather than trying to bring it about via persuasion of some sort.

    I've explained it quite clearly; the practical effect of the abolition of the Israeli state (which anti-Zionists seek) is the mass expulsion or murder of large numbers of Jews.
    No, you've merely asserted that. As I said above, why?
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    (Original post by Lord Gaben)
    Jeremy Corbyn should apologise to the British Jewish community for his offensive remarks. It's disgraceful to compare ISIS to Israel.
    So it is.

    So why should Corbyn apologise then?

    Posted from TSR Mobile
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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    So it is.

    So why should Corbyn apologise then?
    In fact the Labour Party already apologized to Israel.

    "Shadow Foreign Secretary Emily Thornberry later phoned the Israeli Ambassador in London to apologise for any offence caused by Mr Corbyn's remarks."
    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36676018

    Of course Corbin is an anti-Semite. The question is why somebody needs his apologies?
 
 
 
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