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Thousands at 'March for Europe' Brexit protest. Watch

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    (Original post by Plagioclase)
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    The main reason for me is that I want us to be a sovereign democratic-socialist country that is free from corporate influence, even if that means us being less well off in the pocket per annum in terms of GDP. I'm fine with that because I want a country that puts people before profits. Leaving the EU, which is a corporate racket, is a first step towards that devolution and localism. The next step is to ensure the Tories do not increase their grip on Westminster and take the UK back to a time when people knew their neighbours, when people cared for one another and when the homeless were fed, not forced out of London boroughs like subhumans who should be demonised. I did not like the path, and still do not like the path, the EU is on. I also do not see a long-term future of the Euro or Eurozone.
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    The majority of the Remainers must be totally ashamed of the sick behaviours of a handful marching in London. They are able to protest because we have democracy in this country, yet they march against democracy seeking to overturn a democratic referendum. This just after we remember the 100s of 1000s who died and/or suffered in the great wars in order to preserve freedom and democracy. It could not be sicker really. Millions of Remainers had their vote and understand that democratically they were not a majority and that's that, they are disappointed to have lost but they are mature, respectful of the process and others votes and as a result they behave with dignity and integrity.
    The tiny minority of well funded and purposefully organised stooges currently displaying shocking disrespect both for a democratic process and for those who gave their lives for democracy are to be ignored . . . utterly, absolutely and without a moments hesitation.
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    (Original post by The Roast)
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36692990

    Thousands of people are marching through London to protest against the referendum decision to leave the EU.Demonstrators at the "March for Europe" rally, which was organised on social media, are holding placards saying "Bremain" and "We Love EU".Protester Mark Thomas said the referendum campaign - which resulted in the UK voting by 52% to Leave - had not been fought "on a level playing field".But critics said that those who lost the vote were "having a tantrum".

    Still no mention of the poor 35% turnout for 18-24 year olds.
    Desperate measures.
    Lughing at them
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    (Original post by welshiee)
    The main reason for me is that I want us to be a sovereign democratic-socialist country that is free from corporate influence, even if that means us being less well off in the pocket per annum in terms of GDP. I'm fine with that because I want a country that puts people before profits. Leaving the EU, which is a corporate racket, is a first step towards that devolution and localism. The next step is to ensure the Tories do not increase their grip on Westminster and take the UK back to a time when people knew their neighbours, when people cared for one another and when the homeless were fed, not forced out of London boroughs like subhumans who should be demonised. I did not like the path, and still do not like the path, the EU is on. I also do not see a long-term future of the Euro or Eurozone.
    We are sovereign. You do realise that voting out of the EU pushes us further away from socialism? They are more left leaning than us generally speaking and things have only been getting worse for the last 6 years. A lot of this sounds like problems caused by the UK, not the EU.
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    (Original post by alexs2602)
    This is hilarious. You just proved them right. You do think you're above experts. It is fine to disagree, provided you have a good argument and proof against them because you can be damned sure they have evidence. Something tells me you don't have any of that. Typical "university of life" armchair experts.

    Baseless? Lmao.
    Nonsense. Economics experts as you put it do not deal with hard facts like those in natural sciences do. They deal with forecasts and predictions which is a world apart from the conclusive facts derived in the natural sciences. They also make numerous baseless assumptions.

    https://fullfact.org/economy/ten-thi...onomic-models/

    Please refer to sections 2 and 3 and educate yourselves. Don't let the facts get in the way of your ******** though. Also, no, I am not the typical armchair expert.

    I'm a graduate with a degree in a scientific area which is why I understand the importance of scientific discourse and adherence to the scientific method. Having read two of the reports, by the IMF and OECD, something you have probably not done because you just took them as gospel like a religious zealot, I decided that the assumptions they made were so anti-science and laughable it wasn't worth entertaining the conclusions they drew.

    In conclusion, lets just sum up the points:

    Models force people to be explicit about the assumptions they have made, which factors they think will be most important and how their whole argument adds up. In that sense, models are much better than baseless projections.Understanding the assumptions that have gone into the models, and their potential limitations, is what makes them a good starting point for debate. They only provide part of the picture, and users should never let them have the final word.
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    (Original post by alexs2602)
    We are sovereign. You do realise that voting out of the EU pushes us further away from socialism? They are more left leaning than us generally speaking and things have only been getting worse for the last 6 years. A lot of this sounds like problems caused by the UK, not the EU.
    Yes, baseless. Go and educate yourself: https://fullfact.org/economy/ten-thi...onomic-models/

    Both reports by the IMF and OECD were full of ridiculous assumptions plucked out of thin air which meant the output was laughable at best, but of course, most people like yourselves just read newspaper headlines instead of the reports themselves so you see ******** propaganda instead of the truth.

    Anyone who just believes in experts without questioning them is no better than a religious zealot.
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    (Original post by welshiee)
    Yes, baseless. Go and educate yourself: https://fullfact.org/economy/ten-thi...onomic-models/

    Both reports by the IMF and OECD were full of ridiculous assumptions plucked out of thin air which meant the output was laughable at best, but of course, most people like yourselves just read newspaper headlines instead of the reports themselves so you see ******** propaganda instead of the truth.

    Anyone who just believes in experts without questioning them is no better than a religious zealot.
    EU law perspective, touches on sovereignty.

    https://youtu.be/USTypBKEd8Y
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    (Original post by alexs2602)
    EU law perspective, touches on sovereignty.

    https://youtu.be/USTypBKEd8Y
    Yes, both sides lied. Great job. Again, you do not need to be an expert to realise that both sides were perpetuating propagandist nonsense.
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    (Original post by MrsSheldonCooper)
    Only two words to describe them- Sore Losers



    Leave won fair and square. Remainers should just get over it.
    I'm sorry but that is such a ridiculous attitude. So if something happens to your country, or even yourself and your personal life, which you feel is of the utmost worse outcome possible and would cause severe damage, you would just lie back and take it?


    If everyone took such a lazy, defeatist attitude regarding our country and just lay back and accepted things as they were, you wouldn't have even been able to vote in the referendum.
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    (Original post by welshiee)
    The main reason for me is that I want us to be a sovereign democratic-socialist country that is free from corporate influence, even if that means us being less well off in the pocket per annum in terms of GDP. I'm fine with that because I want a country that puts people before profits. Leaving the EU, which is a corporate racket, is a first step towards that devolution and localism. The next step is to ensure the Tories do not increase their grip on Westminster and take the UK back to a time when people knew their neighbours, when people cared for one another and when the homeless were fed, not forced out of London boroughs like subhumans who should be demonised. I did not like the path, and still do not like the path, the EU is on. I also do not see a long-term future of the Euro or Eurozone.
    But this is even more absurd, because I completely agree with the ends you're trying to achieve but leaving the EU isn't going to get us there. The EU is not the corporate hellhole you're depicting it as even if it isn't perfect. There are countries in Europe, such as Germany which is as pro-EU as you can get, which are much closer to achieving equality than we are. It is absolutely possible for a country to pursue socialist aims whilst being a member of the EU. Once again, I'm not going to act as if the EU is a perfect institution and if we really were in a situation where there was a realistic chance of a socialist government being put in place in the UK, I might be slightly more sympathetic towards leaving. But this couldn't be further from reality, the political centre of this country has never been further to the right and as admirable an aim as it is to "ensure the Tories do not increase their grip on Westminster and take the UK back to a time when people knew their neighbours, when people cared for one another and when the homeless were fed, not forced out of London boroughs like subhumans who should be demonised", leaving the EU, particularly at the moment, is going to achieve the opposite. You can claim that you're playing a long-term game and even if that were true (which I strongly disagree with), it is undeniable that in the short term, the people you're trying to protect are going to suffer considerably. In comparison to European neighbours like Germany or France, the UK is a very conservative country and I have not seen any reason to believe that this is going to change in the near future. Leaving the EU is not going to deliver us into a socialist paradise. It is going to do the total opposite.

    Your ideals are noble but here's another example of the conflict between what you're wishing for, and the world we live in. Devolution and anti-globalism are very nice things in theory but complete national sovereignty died the moment countries became powerful enough to project power on a global stage. Humans have developed now to a point where the actions of individual countries have major impacts on everyone else on the planet, not just economically but also socially and environmentally. This is the world we live in and nothing is going to reverse this trend. The greatest challenges that humans are going to face over the next century are challenges that have to be tackled on a global, not a national level. Many of these issues are classic commons problems, which require actors that are able to legislate internationally. If every country only seeks to serve its own interests without heeding those of others, everybody will be worse off - that's the nature of a commons problem. A classic example of this is climate change. The lack of an international body that is able to effectively legislate and override national governments has results in a global response that is dire, and it going to have a terrible humanitarian impact on millions of people. In spite of this, the EU has had one of the best responses in the world to climate change, and this is precisely because of its ability to impose legislation on countries. As far as I'm concerned, and as far as the academics who are looking into developmental pathways of the future are concerned, a technologically developed human race and complete national sovereignty are mutually exclusive. As much as I understand why you want to have both, you can't. There is a lot of work into these issues being done at my university and I've been keenly attending many of their talks this year, and I have been absolutely convinced that there is a desperate need for greater international cooperation. Again, the EU isn't perfect, but it is a structure that the world needs. If the UK leaving the EU triggers a mass abandonment of these international bodies, that would be a tragedy for global stability and would hugely increase our vulnerability to issues that require international cooperation. As someone who claims to be concerned about the welfare of humanity and human dignity, this is something you should be incredibly concerned about.
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    (Original post by Plagioclase)
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    It is in your opinion. I want a revolution and I'm willing to die for it. Are you willing to die for your cause?
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    (Original post by Twinpeaks)
    I'm sorry but that is such a ridiculous attitude. So if something happens to your country, or even yourself and your personal life, which you feel is of the utmost worse outcome possible and would cause severe damage, you would just lie back and take it?


    If everyone took such a lazy, defeatist attitude regarding our country and just lay back and accepted things as they were, you wouldn't have even been able to vote in the referendum.
    The long term effects of Brexit aren't known well enough to have a protest about how bad it is for God's sake. From what I've seen, majority of the Remainers just want to keep protesting until they get the result they want.
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    (Original post by alexs2602)
    Fair? Lies and deceit are fair? A lot of the leave campaign has been debunked in the week since the referendum so votes made on the basis of debunked leave campaign statements are not fair. An expert in the field of EU law described the leave campaign as deceit on an industrial scale.

    Remainers should get over having to leave what is verifiably a positive thing for the UK in many ways, entering a recession, losing so much? Especially over such a small minority which would likely be remain by the time we leave the EU with new young voters voting overwhelmingly to remain and old voters voting mostly leave dying.
    Is it set in stone that the UK will end up going into a recession? No it isn't. It's predictions that have been made by the same people who said there wouldn't be a credit crunch in 2008 and look what magically happened!


    Leave won. Either go and live in Europe or go with what's going to happen outside the EU.
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    (Original post by welshiee)
    It is in your opinion. I want a revolution and I'm willing to die for it. Are you willing to die for your cause?
    I find it pretty insulting that you've just dismissed all of the above as "my opinion". This is not just my opinion, this is the opinion of world-leading experts on global development who understand far more about these issues than you do. You could at the very least explain to me why you think they're invalid, rather than effectively burying your head in the sand.

    You are not going to get a revolution. You cannot seriously claim to care about tackling issues like poverty and inequality whilst having views that are grounded in fantasy, plans that alienate the very institutions that have the capability of bringing about the change you're asking for and assuming that your cause is going to be supported by the people, when they aren't.
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    (Original post by KimKallstrom)
    Christ, will you look at these morons...........
    lmao strong hipsters. I thought they were anti corporate?
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    I think the Brexiters are being overly optimistic to try and mask their own fears of the countries future
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    I wasn't able to attend, but I wish I could've.

    Go back to the early 2000s and look at public support for the Iraq war. If there'd been a referendum for military action, we'd have gone in (as we did anyway). It wasn't long after that people felt a lot differently about military action in Iraq - with calls for inquiries, resignations and criminal charges.

    A snapshot of public feeling - which a referendum is, doesn't seem to be the best way of making incredibly important decisions. Especially those as complex as membership of the EU. The matter is complicated more when the campaign before such a vote is marred with lies.

    In the same way a jury's verdict can be quashed when it is found to be unsafe, I think the referendum result should be too.

    We are a parliamentary democracy. The Leave campaign was all about returning power to Parliament. So, I expect that they will support our elected representatives doing what is best for the country as a whole.*
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    (Original post by MrsSheldonCooper)
    Only two words to describe them- Sore Losers



    Leave won fair and square. Remainers should just get over it.
    Leave did not win fair and square. Did you know that many many young people were busy at Glastonbury or busy in France for the Euros or busy partying or out with friends. There is a potential 2 million votes which could swing it for remain, do those 2 million not have a say if you really believe in democracy girl?
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    (Original post by Manchester_123)
    Leave did not win fair and square. Did you know that many many young people were busy at Glastonbury or busy in France for the Euros or busy partying or out with friends. There is a potential 2 million votes which could swing it for remain, do those 2 million not have a say if you really believe in democracy girl?
    Postal vote
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    (Original post by Desi123)
    Postal vote
    I have spoken to 100s who were out at Glastonbury or partying throughout the day, and I can name 2 who even knew what postal voting was. So how are they suppose to vote remain by post if they were not aware of it?
 
 
 
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