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BREXIT: Suppose the French want us out.... Watch

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    (Original post by FredOrJohn)
    Suppose the French want us out so Paris gets control of all EU finances instead of London. There could be billions (perhaps a trillion) of pounds at stake and 100,000s of jobs....

    If we left the EU or even did a Norway EEA, it would still mean the UK was no longer at the table and thus all the power would have shifted from London to Paris.

    The only way to avoid this would be that one of the options the UK keeps, is the option to walk away from the table and REMAIN...

    You would not go into a car show room and say to the salesman I am 100% definitely going to buy this car whatever happens.

    Likewise, the UK needs to keep the REMAIN option on the table. We simply cannot afford to lose 100,000s of jobs and billions of pounds of money that goes to pay pensions and the NHS.

    Its just silly. We need to keep the REMAIN option on the table .
    No we don't move on
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    (Original post by jneill)
    Your maths or your understanding of voting is wonky.

    In 1975 the vast majority of voters went with Yes (i.e Remain) 67:33 (note, we were already in).

    The alternative view would be to look to see if enough people in the total electorate wanted to leave. i.e. to justify changing the status quo.
    Electorate: 40 million.
    Votes for No (i.e. Leave) : 8.5 million = only 21% of electorate wanted to Leave.

    So by either measure it was a strong vote to Remain in the EEC.
    Using your argument less than 44% of the electorate voted for the eu in 1975 that is not a majority so we should not have been part of it.

    both referendums had a majority 75 it way pro Eu, 2016 was pro leave neither have had the majority of the eligible voters so either both should be ignored or neither should
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    Using your argument less than 44% of the electorate voted for the eu in 1975 that is not a majority so we should not have been part of it.

    both referendums had a majority 75 it way pro Eu, 2016 was pro leave neither have had the majority of the eligible voters so either both should be ignored or neither should
    In both referendums we were already in the EEC/EU. The referendums were called to see if people wanted that status to change. They had to positively decide to change the status quo otherwise the status quo would prevail.

    1975: minority (21%) of electorate wanted to Leave, minority (33:67 = convincing) of voters wanted to Leave.
    2016: minority (37.4%) of electorate wanted to Leave, majority (52:48 = narrow) of voters wanted to Leave.

    Yes you won the Referendum, but narrowly. And the contention is for something this important perhaps a more ringing endorsement should be required to change the status quo.
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    (Original post by jneill)
    In both referendums we were already in the EEC/EU. The referendums were called to see if people wanted that status to change. They had to positively decide to change the status quo otherwise the status quo would prevail.

    1975: minority (21%) of electorate wanted to Leave, minority (33:67 = convincing) of voters wanted to Leave.
    2016: minority (37.4%) of electorate wanted to Leave, majority (52:48 = narrow) of voters wanted to Leave.

    Yes you won the Referendum, but narrowly. And the contention is for something this important perhaps a more ringing endorsement should be required to change the status quo.
    So the eu has never had the majority of the electorate vote for it so we should stay in?
    No the majority of votes is how this decision should be made it a interesting how you would like to change how referendums have worked because one didn't go your way, if there is a 2nd referendum would you accept that remain must get 60%+ to win because leave won the first and you are trying to change a decision from the majority?
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    You are so irresponsible, stop trying to stop democracy, there will be utter chaos and civil war. Would that be good for your business interests? You are arguing solely on self-interest. There are more French that want to leave than Brits. the EU is doomed and to the detriment of most Europeans.

    The other thing you are seemingly uninformed of is we can stay in the EEA, and have free movement for now, or as long as we want, without rejoining the EU. You can still utilize it, but this is about long term decision making powers and reganing our control, over having NONE. Are you really willing to give away all our democracy? What the hell for? We can still have free movement, campaign for the EEA, not the creepy unaccountable EU. Would you throw away our democracy for good because of uninformed panic and self-interest?
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    (Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
    The other thing you fail to process is we can stay in the EEA, and have free movement for now, or as long as we want, without rejoining the EU. You can still utilize it, but this is about long term decision making powers and reganing our control, over having NONE. Are you really willing to give away all our democracy? What the hell for? We can still have free movement, campaign for the EEA, not the creepy unaccountable EU.
    Would Leave have won if that had been the offer on the table?
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    (Original post by jneill)
    Would Leave have won if that had been the offer on the table?
    Yes, if the media had been objective and not pilloried them with **** and allowed them to make the case for long term independence without calling them racists. It clearly makes more sense than remaining. But anyway, why do so many remainers keep harking back over some supposed glorious era, that never was glorious, and showing such contempt for democracy. Why don't we deal with the best solutions for a divided country now? Seemingly many remainers would rather whip up propaganda(economic and racial) and try and make the country descend into chaos to further their own agenda of remaining for evermore, after being torn apart. And can you imagine how democratic that would be, can you imagine how little power Britain would, have and what the terms of the deal would be for us? It is the height of irresponsibility and shallowness to wish for such a lamentable, pyrrhic victory to the detriment of our national interests. I'm sick of the sore losers brigade frankly. Sorry but I'm more sure of how I voted after seeing many remainers behaviour. And before you ask, yes I would have accepted the result the other way, in fact I was expected even late 50's remain. I would have been disappointed, but half expecting it and usually cynical, and get on with my life. Now I see what happens when brainwashed utopians don't get their way.

    I reject the premise. We should be thinking about now and the future and being British about it, which is thinking of our national interests and getting on with it. There are now so many issues where people fall into opposing camps, with mixed camps of remain and leave on both sides, that are different debates, and those are the ones to deal with now within a self-determining, sovereign nation. You are not helping by such things as the above.
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    (Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
    Yes
    Reasons given by Leavers according to the Ashcroft poll.

    Name:  Screen Shot 2016-07-04 at 13.14.09.jpg
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    http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06...voted-and-why/
    1) "Nearly half (49%) of leave voters said the biggest single reason for wanting to leave the EU was “the principle that decisions about the UK should be taken in the UK”.
    2) One third (33%) said the main reason was that leaving “offered the best chance for the UK to regain control over immigration and its own borders.”
    3) Just over one in eight (13%) said remaining would mean having no choice “about how the EU expanded its membership or its powers in the years ahead.”

    1) If we are in the free-trade zone, EU decisions will still apply but the UK will have no say over them (c.f. Norway)
    2) Freedom of movement... (c.f Switzerland)
    3) Fair enough. Sit on the sidelines with no veto, etc...
 
 
 
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