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    (Original post by champ_mc99)
    Lol what has that got to do with anything?

    You said Muslims ostracising ISIS are (by some logic) supporting them. I guess those who do the same with the Ahmediyyahs are also supporting them.
    I never said any such thing, go back and read what I said.

    I have just realised that you don't understand the word ostracise, else you have little comprehension on my posts
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    (Original post by dozyrosie)
    stop (not you personally) tacitly supporting these things by claiming they are not true Muslims
    What did you mean?
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    (Original post by champ_mc99)
    What did you mean?
    What is a Muslim? Who actually judges and isn't it some form of sin to judge?
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    Actually if people judge who is a Muslim aren't they committing something worse than shirk, they are usurping god's power, they know more than god?
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    (Original post by dozyrosie)
    What is a Muslim? Who actually judges and isn't it some form of sin to judge?
    Don't know where you're going with this. For your sake, ISIS are Muslim. Yay. You win this one. Am I no longer supporting ISIS now?

    What does ostracise mean?
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    (Original post by champ_mc99)
    Don't know where you're going with this. For your sake, ISIS are Muslim. Yay. You win this one. Am I no longer supporting ISIS now?

    What does ostracise mean?
    I don't know if you support ISIS, supporting any ideology, which is what a religion is over other considerations to me is terrorism. Other people may have a different view, they may think their religious beliefs trump other people, but this is why we must eradicate these, for me without mercy.
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    (Original post by dozyrosie)
    I don't know if you support ISIS, supporting any ideology, which is what a religion is over other considerations to me is terrorism. Other people may have a different view, they may think their religious beliefs trump other people, but this is why we must eradicate these, for me without mercy.
    So what did you mean by supporting "these things"?
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    (Original post by champ_mc99)
    So what did you mean by supporting "these things"?
    On the one hand Muslims mostly condemn the activities of Islamic terrorists and claim that those involved are not true Muslims, on the other these acts are justified because they happen in Muslim lands, whatever that means. So the terrorism is justified against the Jew, American imperialist, westerner or apostate. Even Nelson Mandela was a terrorist, a freedom fighter does not blow up a building in order to kill non combatants.
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    How do they call themselves an "Islamic State", when they are killing muslims during the holiest month of the year.
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    (Original post by SuperHuman98)
    How do they call themselves an "Islamic State", when they are killing muslims during the holiest month of the year.
    Because they follow a literalist, retentionist interpretation of Islam, one that makes no concessions to the social and moral changes over the last 1400 years. And that interpretation authorises the killing of all those who oppose their "True Islam".
    They do not consider their victims to be Muslims, but rather Munafiq (hypocrites), who are considered to be worse than disbelievers.
    Any holy work done during Ramadan (and that includes jihad - both spiritual and physical) is multiplied in the eyes of Allah.

    As insane and barbaric as they appear to be to rational people, they will point to a passage of the Quran or sunnah as justification for every action. The majority of Muslims may well condemn the means by which they enforce their ideology - but (and this is the important bit), they do not condemn the parts of the ideology which ISIS use as justification for those actions.

    The classic example is sex slaves.
    ISIS use female captives as sex slaves.
    The Quran and sunnah explicitly permit this (not particularly surprising for 1400 year old rules of war, BTW).
    'Moderate' Muslims will condemn ISIS for using sex slaves, but they will not condemn the Quran and sunnah for permitting it.
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    (Original post by dozyrosie)
    We can certainly improve on this, stop (not you personally) tacitly supporting these things by claiming they are not true Muslims, they are, even if they are brainwashed into thinking seventy two women are their reward.
    With due respect, only God decides who is and isn't a Muslim, not you or me.

    Did you just admit that they are true muslims? Wow, in that I'm not a true Muslim, how unfortunate...

    Killing another Muslim (or any innocent being) will never earn them the lustful reward you speak of. The severity of this action is so great, I'm not sure you understand.

    An powerful hadith by Imam Sadiq:

    "Harming another believer is worse than damaging the house of God, the kaba".

    For God may forgive those who damage the holy building, but He can never forgive those who harm other until the victim forgives them, for He is all just.
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    (Original post by dozyrosie)
    Actually if people judge who is a Muslim aren't they committing something worse than shirk, they are usurping god's power, they know more than god?
    This is incorrect, it is widely agreed that the worst sin is shirk.

    It's a sin ( can be classified as hypocrisy) but certainly not worse than shirk.
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    (Original post by dozyrosie)
    He was on Abu Bakr side, he never followed Ali at all.
    He did something worse, he fought him (Sifeen)

    (Original post by dozyrosie)
    The fact is he was a scribe so could influence any way he wished. So what does Allah say on the Sunni/Shia divide, and what does the Koran say on the Sunni/Shia divide?
    All hold onto the rope of Allah and not to disunite.

    (Original post by dozyrosie)
    All this thing about who is and who is not a true Muslim is annoying, why doesn't god clear up this mess?
    If God were to intervene, I'd imagine there's much more important issues rather than who are true Muslims, sunni or shia.
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    (Original post by SuperHuman98)
    How do they call themselves an "Islamic State", when they are killing muslims during the holiest month of the year.
    Indeed, one would think that the last of their victims would be Muslims.
 
 
 
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