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Why there will be no Brexit...but lots of chaos for five years if we leave. Watch

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    (Original post by Theplace)
    Correct: The U.K. has currently no ability to do anything for thei eleven, let alone their children and grandchildren. This now will allow the govs to tax higher and impose a real austerity budget on its people that will finish them off.
    Today a young person applying for a few jobs was sent letters by all the companies saying that they would not be hiring due to Brexit.
    Welcome to the real world! UK is going to hell because of stupid political games.

    They just want to destroy the EU? Lol. What if EU doesn't exist? That's good news for terrorists? Do you really think those politicians will help British people? Lol.

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    (Original post by ByEeek)
    Good. So what are you going to do about it? Who will award your single vote to in order to make a significant difference? And even if you are successful in that, you then have to get your chosen representative to put your concern to his / her colleagues and get enough support to put forward your point. And even if that is possible, you then have to hope they come up with a strategy that makes companies like Monsanto sit up and take note. And even if you do that, you need to think about the consequences of companies like Monsanto deciding to go elsewhere.

    This is the point. The world is so complex. It is nice to try and lump it up into one single simple issue, but that is not how things roll. We have walloped the EU in our referendum, but in / out is far to simplistic to sum up how it all works. If there is one thing that is certain, the Tory government are going to be cozying up global corporates left right and centre.
    Cam we try to list all the issues here, is there any area that will not be affected? Any area thst will improve?
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    (Original post by skunkboy)
    Welcome to the real world! UK is going to hell because of stupid political games.

    They just want to destroy the EU? Lol. What if EU doesn't exist? That's good news for terrorists? Do you really think those politicians will help British people? Lol.

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    This is not a three for argument, but to present ideas. How will it affect you? Short term and long term, socially, business wise, education.
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    (Original post by PilgrimOfTruth)
    This is unbelievably naïve.

    The powers that be plan for EVERYTHING, every time. Everything else you see is a pure smoke screen and side show. I guess you fell for it.



    This NEEDS to happen to reverse the dire situation the UK has been fraudulently brought into over those years. Lots of UK laws and regulations that have been superseded by EU laws without the will, consent or even consultation of the UK people. The country should NEVER have been taken into the European Union.

    The people voted to join the European COMMUNITY many years ago but when the EC started to become a European UNION in the 90s, Gordon Brown should have immediately explained to the populous what was happening, what the impact would be to our UK laws, regulations, our justice system, our parliament our voting system and much more and he should have AT THAT POINT held a national referendum to see if people wanted to join the EU as opposed to the EC. Had that all been explained, we would have voted NO/OUT at that point. That's why we were not given such a referendum.

    Everything that has stemmed from that situation now needs to be reversed and people like Brown put on trial for selling the country down the river which is against the constitution and the Coronation Oath.



    NO. We would be giving up all of our nation's power and sovereignty and all of our ability to sway decisions by entering what is becoming a federal state. We would be fools to want that and thankfully over 17 million people thought so too.



    There will only be unrest if our governments refuse to act for the benefit of the country and its people. Britain will be prosperous again once it is out of the EU and established new trade links with other countries.
    Following: if the gov plans it, it knew this would happen, so wanted chaos? Why?
    The western world is so intermingled, so this is also hurting their own. If its corporate who is it? Is it the UN? USA? PUTIN? Or just a UK ego gamble that backfired?
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    (Original post by Theplace)
    The result of the referendum (a questionnaire) was unexpected, which is why noone prepared for a Brexit, not even the Leave party. Since remain was expected to win, many voted leave as a protest against matters that they had not voiced to the government before; oversubscribed hospitals, GPs, schools etc, mainly as the result of a recent wave of immigration starting ten years ago, and attracted to the UK for it's generous automatic housing and benefits package, and bypassing other eu countries to get it.
    However, many ordinary people in neglected areas who voted leave were also fed up by not having jobs or opportunities in their areas, since eu jobs and wealth had not reached them. Others were astute enough to see that the eu was not opaque, and was taking liberties with the U.Ks liberties.

    The people have voted. Leave won. That is not contested. (Though the means may well be, ie misrepresentation etc).
    However, the bill that authorised the referendum intentionally excluded any mention of it being pre approved by parliament, which it had in other bills post legislation, and as such, it needs to go before parliament to be approved, since it ipertains to future legislation. The houses have to look at it, analyse it and IF it is not in the best interest of,the U.K. it can decide not to approve it on those,grounds. It also needs Royal assent, which the queen usually gives, but parliament likely will not let it get that far and will not give it approval. They also have to overturn a bill to do this.
    This will take a very long time. Additionally, 40 years of laws have to be analysed and discussed, which will take about four to five years to do, even if the UK decides to invoke article 50. By then, the EU,will not exist as we know it and the U.K., Europe and world will be in flux. If the UK quickly says remain, the world can continue, and absorb this recent hit, both financially and emotionally. If the leaves stay firm, then there will be unrest for years to come and only lawyers profit.
    The only choice is to remain, and to invest the resources that the government will be spending on lawyers on the people and children of the U.K,creating good schools and jobs for the forgotten areas that need it most.
    All comments welcome.
    The MP's will vote to leave (disputed it needs a vote anyway) the older bill does not need to be over turned as the bill from 2012/2013 can't remember which year supersedes it.

    Those laws do not need to be debated pre brexit as they are already all British law. If any are desired by parliament to be debated and changed that will happen in the years and decades post brexit.

    We will see who is right over this, thee or me.....

    I'll give you a hint it's me.


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    (Original post by paul514)
    The MP's will vote to leave (disputed it needs a vote anyway) the older bill does not need to be over turned as the bill from 2012/2013 can't remember which year supersedes it.

    Those laws do not need to be debated pre brexit as they are already all British law. If any are desired by parliament to be debated and changed that will happen in the years and decades post brexit.

    We will see who is right over this, thee or me.....

    I'll give you a hint it's me.


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    Thank you. It's not about right or wrong. It's discourse, learning. And I'm learning.
    Can you please explain how the uk will implement article 50, step by step. Thankyou.
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    (Original post by Theplace)
    Thank you. It's not about right or wrong. It's discourse, learning. And I'm learning.
    Can you please explain how the uk will implement article 50, step by step. Thankyou.
    Well like I said its disputed some say you need to parliaments consent in the form of a vote to do this and some say it is up to the PM.

    Either way brexit will happen. All the conservative leadership candidates say they will trigger article 50 as far as I know all Tory MPs are using the line we are all brexiteers now. The vote will be whipped if it happens and it would be a large majority that votes for it.

    The new PM will have informal talks before triggering article 50 formally starting the 2 year clock.

    If it were me I would trigger it after elections next summer in Europe however most of the candidates are saying they will do it this winter.

    The implementation of article 50 is as simple as a written notification to the EU.

    I would say the European Union department that it should be addressed to but that is also disputed inside the European Union.
    It's very likely to be the council but it hasn't been confirmed yet


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    (Original post by paul514)
    Well like I said its disputed some say you need to parliaments consent in the form of a vote to do this and some say it is up to the PM.

    Either way brexit will happen. All the conservative leadership candidates say they will trigger article 50 as far as I know all Tory MPs are using the line we are all brexiteers now. The vote will be whipped if it happens and it would be a large majority that votes for it.

    The new PM will have informal talks before triggering article 50 formally starting the 2 year clock.

    If it were me I would trigger it after elections next summer in Europe however most of the candidates are saying they will do it this winter.

    The implementation of article 50 is as simple as a written notification to the EU.

    I would say the European Union department that it should be addressed to but that is also disputed inside the European Union.
    It's very likely to be the council but it hasn't been confirmed yet


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    Well, thanks for that. Very clear. And even as far as the particular department...I had not thought of that. But I am sure any department will accept it.
    Will the world and markets wait six months or a year,? I suppose they will have no choice. So why did the eu expect it triggered yesterday?
    The issue of a vote in the houses will be problematic, because that's where it will be held up, the longest for whatever reason, since there is a history of delay there.
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    (Original post by Theplace)
    Well, thanks for that. Very clear. And even as far as the particular department...I had not thought of that. But I am sure any department will accept it.
    Will the world and markets wait six months or a year,? I suppose they will have no choice. So why did the eu expect it triggered yesterday?
    The issue of a vote in the houses will be problematic, because that's where it will be held up, the longest for whatever reason, since there is a history of delay there.
    Actually the departments of the eu are fighting over who's responsibility it should be as different departments have different concerns.

    The most likely is the council which is what the uk wants as that then is a negotiation with the other 27 heads of state where different interests can be played off against each other. It also may have new heads of state next summer like le penn is France playing a key role hence why I think they should wait.

    The eu is simply talking rhetoric in regards to how quick it should be done as they have no say in the matter as it is down to the member state completely. The longer it goes on the weaker the European Union bargaining position becomes as it is doing more damage to them than us and they know things can change in next years elections.

    With regards to markets they can do what they like they are a separate entity and all they are doing is risk management and making money from uncertainty as they always do.

    The issue of parliament voting will come to pass in September/October and it will be down to the guy who is in charge of the Houses of Parliament I can't remember his name or title as they just replaced him in the last 12 months


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    (Original post by paul514)
    Actually the departments of the eu are fighting over who's responsibility it should be as different departments have different concerns.

    The most likely is the council which is what the uk wants as that then is a negotiation with the other 27 heads of state where different interests can be played off against each other. It also may have new heads of state next summer like le penn is France playing a key role hence why I think they should wait.

    The eu is simply talking rhetoric in regards to how quick it should be done as they have no say in the matter as it is down to the member state completely. The longer it goes on the weaker the European Union bargaining position becomes as it is doing more damage to them than us and they know things can change in next years elections.

    With regards to markets they can do what they like they are a separate entity and all they are doing is risk management and making money from uncertainty as they always do.

    The issue of parliament voting will come to pass in September/October and it will be down to the guy who is in charge of the Houses of Parliament I can't remember his name or title as they just replaced him in the last 12 months


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    Thanks, I agree that markets love uncertainty and profit from it.
    I guess we better look up that parliament guy. See what he's about.
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    (Original post by Theplace)
    Thanks, I agree that markets love uncertainty and profit from it.
    I guess we better look up that parliament guy. See what he's about.
    I have tried it's really hard to find him in Google as he is so obscure to the public. He's literally in charge of the Houses of Parliament but when you search that nothing to do with the management of the Houses of Parliament comes up


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    Found it, it's David natzler clerk of the House of Commons

    He replaced Robert Rogers which is who I was thinking of

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    (Original post by seaholme)
    Out of curiosity, what is it about leaving the EU that will suddenly cause us all to start manufacturing again?
    Necessity

    (Original post by seaholme)
    It will be very hard to be self-sufficient and still maintain our quality of life. The UK hasn't been truly self-sufficient for hundreds of years.
    Indeed because the successive governments have seen to it that we become useless dependent druggies leaving them and the elite to be the pimps that control us.

    We used to have a strong coal industry - government shut it down and just to be sure concreted the mines in.

    We used to have a strong fishing industry - government via EU mandates destroyed it

    We used to have a strong car manufacturing industry, and strong textiles and great steel industries and potteries and much much more.

    All systematically destroyed to ensure that the UK became dependent on foreign imports.

    In the times to come the people will realise once again how important it is to be self-sufficient, to not be dependent cripples.

    We have the massive oil discovery at Gatwick which will serve the UK well.
    We are sitting on trillions of tons of Shale Gas, enough to serve the UK for 50+ years.
    We can re-open some of the mines

    We can bring back farming and with it restore our former traditions of local butchers, grocers, fishmongers and the like, kicking the supermarkets into touch.

    We will learn to re-evaluate what it really means to "Buy British" and support our own businesses and learn why that is so important and how, opting for any old cheap price goods has lead to us being a controlled and dominated nation.

    These are lessons we must learn. Our mind sets must change. Then we can be prosperous again.
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    (Original post by PilgrimOfTruth)
    Necessity



    Indeed because the successive governments have seen to it that we become useless dependent druggies leaving them and the elite to be the pimps that control us.

    We used to have a strong coal industry - government shut it down and just to be sure concreted the mines in.

    We used to have a strong fishing industry - government via EU mandates destroyed it

    We used to have a strong car manufacturing industry, and strong textiles and great steel industries and potteries and much much more.

    All systematically destroyed to ensure that the UK became dependent on foreign imports.

    In the times to come the people will realise once again how important it is to be self-sufficient, to not be dependent cripples.

    We have the massive oil discovery at Gatwick which will serve the UK well.
    We are sitting on trillions of tons of Shale Gas, enough to serve the UK for 50+ years.
    We can re-open some of the mines

    We can bring back farming and with it restore our former traditions of local butchers, grocers, fishmongers and the like, kicking the supermarkets into touch.

    We will learn to re-evaluate what it really means to "Buy British" and support our own businesses and learn why that is so important and how, opting for any old cheap price goods has lead to us being a controlled and dominated nation.

    These are lessons we must learn. Our mind sets must change. Then we can be prosperous again.
    Our coal is low grade so I doubt we will start mining that on any decent scale again.

    The price of labour in this country for low skilled stuff is prohibitive compared to other countries.

    Only high cost goods can be realistically made here like cars for example which has been doing very well here over the last decade.

    We have always imported lots of our goods for two reasons 1 an unsustainable population for the size of country and 2 the biggest reason is we have been a global trading nation via the seas for half a millennium


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    (Original post by Theplace)
    The result of the referendum (a questionnaire) was unexpected, which is why noone prepared for a Brexit, not even the Leave party.
    this is simply not true
    the "Leave" side have a detailed roadmap for Brexit http://thebrexitplan.com/
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    The Guardian states today gov lawyers have said that no parliamentary approval is needed to invoke article 50. I beg to differ, but it seems that rules are made and broken by the second these days.
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    (Original post by Theplace)
    The Guardian states today gov lawyers have said that no parliamentary approval is needed to invoke article 50. I beg to differ, but it seems that rules are made and broker by the second these days.
    Like I said earlier it's debatable my understanding is the PM doesn't have to ask


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    (Original post by PilgrimOfTruth)
    Necessity
    Not sure that 'necessity' will miraculously make it worthwhile manufacturing basic goods in the UK when it can be done and IS done far cheaper in other parts of the world. Basic understanding of competition says that's a bad move, you'd have to be a bit thick to invest in basic industries here. Look at the steel industry recently - a glut of cheap steel in China completely undermined steel in the UK and caused the losses of hundreds of jobs. It's a really, really bad direction to move in.

    Leaving the EU isn't going to magically change any of that.

    The kind of manufacturing the UK is good at and actually has an edge on is advanced technology manufacturing - that can't just be done cheaper by anybody in X place on the globe. Engines for planes and rockets, trains, cars and so on. And we already do that.

    If you think we're going to somehow start mining coal for cheaper than it can be done in places like China, I hope you're prepared to work for the 50p an hour (or god knows how little they'd have to pay people) to actually make the numbers stack up. It's a little bit crazy.

    Also, I should point out we earn the most of any EU country out of fishing, and the industry has grown year on year. Fish stocks have recovered because there are limits on over-fishing. There are bad things about it in terms of waste with fish throw back and stuff, but hardly the kind of situation where we're suddenly going to become fish millionaires now the 'evil EU' have helped us get all our stocks of cod back. We're already doing pretty well, contrary to popular mythology.
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    (Original post by paul514)
    Like I said earlier it's debatable my understanding is the PM doesn't have to ask


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    Prior referendums were post legislation, this is pre legislation....it could turn in that.
    The other has did not need approval, but this one omitted that clause.
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    (Original post by seaholme)
    Not sure that 'necessity' will miraculously make it worthwhile manufacturing basic goods in the UK when it can be done and IS done far cheaper in other parts of the world. Basic understanding of competition says that's a bad move, you'd have to be a bit thick to invest in basic industries here. Look at the steel industry recently - a glut of cheap steel in China completely undermined steel in the UK and caused the losses of hundreds of jobs. It's a really, really bad direction to move in.

    Leaving the EU isn't going to magically change any of that.

    The kind of manufacturing the UK is good at and actually has an edge on is advanced technology manufacturing - that can't just be done cheaper by anybody in X place on the globe. Engines for planes and rockets, trains, cars and so on. And we already do that.

    If you think we're going to somehow start mining coal for cheaper than it can be done in places like China, I hope you're prepared to work for the 50p an hour (or god knows how little they'd have to pay people) to actually make the numbers stack up. It's a little bit crazy.

    Also, I should point out we earn the most of any EU country out of fishing, and the industry has grown year on year. Fish stocks have recovered because there are limits on over-fishing. There are bad things about it in terms of waste with fish throw back and stuff, but hardly the kind of situation where we're suddenly going to become fish millionaires now the 'evil EU' have helped us get all our stocks of cod back. We're already doing pretty well, contrary to popular mythology.
    We better start training engineers, Dyson is making a start
 
 
 
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