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What will happen to our EU freedom of movement in the UK? Worried Watch

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    (Original post by hippohops)
    I get what you mean. I guess we will see what happens. It is hard to wait.

    Either way, I am sad to see all the hatred towards other people that has come about after the results. I don't know why people have so much hatred inside. We are all human
    It is because a lot of racists voted for Brexit.

    So for the first time in 50 years, they think they are getting what they want. Therefore, they are celebrating by racially abusing people.

    However, they are too stupid to realise that immigration will continue anyway.
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    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    Per person maybe, but don't forget, there is a large number of them (around 5% of our population, or around 3.2 million). Well, by being beaten by the free market, what I assumed you meant was that, if the EU migrants remain in their country and are paid less or whatever, the businesses will move.
    Well, if you don't want them to send money abroad, then I guess we can have even more illegal immigration as their poor relatives try to get in the country as well.

    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    Well, I'm not, I am comparing the British people who need to work. A lot of them are ill, and a lot of them are idiots with no qualifications, so it is somewhat of an equivalent handicap even in fast food jobs.
    Well.....how exactly is stopping EU migration going to help that? If they cannot do the job now, then how are they going to it later?
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    Well, if you don't want them to send money abroad, then I guess we can have even more illegal immigration as their poor relatives try to get in the country as well.
    Or, alternatively, we can put more money into securing our borders.

    (Original post by DorianGrayism)

    Well.....how exactly is stopping EU migration going to help that? If they cannot do the job now, then how are they going to it later?
    It isn't the point is that by artificially removing better workers from the EU you can place a service based company in a position where these are the people that they can hire to fill lower level positions.
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    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    Or, alternatively, we can put more money into securing our borders.
    Yeh, that should be easy. Maybe, we should take more money off the NHS.


    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    It isn't the point is that by artificially removing better workers from the EU you can place a service based company in a position where these are the people that they can hire to fill lower level positions.
    According to who? You seem to think that a person with no qualifications that can't work in a KFC now, is going to magically be able to do it the future?
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    Yeh, that should be easy. Maybe, we should take more money off the NHS.
    Maybe we should, it is bloated and inefficient as it is.

    (Original post by DorianGrayism)

    According to who? You seem to think that a person with no qualifications that can't work in a KFC now, is going to magically be able to do it the future?
    Well, somebody has to fry the chicken, it isn't going to fry itself.
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    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    Maybe we should, it is bloated and inefficient as it is..
    Oh. I am sure you are an expert on the subject.


    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    Well, somebody has to fry the chicken, it isn't going to fry itself.
    Clearly, it isn't a Brit, who is too stupid with 0 qualifications
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    Oh. I am sure you are an expert on the subject.
    I'm not completely uneducated on the subject, I have lost family members due to the NHS's inefficiency.

    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    Clearly, it isn't a Brit, who is too stupid with 0 qualifications
    Maybe not now, but when KFC notices that nobody is frying the chicken, that most people can do, they will start hiring them in order to replace the EU migrants.
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    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    I'm not completely uneducated on the subject, I have lost family members due to the NHS's inefficiency..
    Yeh, I am sure you have.


    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    I
    Maybe not now, but when KFC notices that nobody is frying the chicken, that most people can do, they will start hiring them in order to replace the EU migrants.
    Or they will just get non-EU immigrants to do it.

    If the British workers were so interested in frying chicken, then they would have done it.
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)

    Or they will just get non-EU immigrants to do it.

    If the British workers were so interested in frying chicken, then they would have done it.
    Well, many have. Also, the population of non EU migrants is lower than EU migrants, and regardless you're still taking workers out of the workforce.
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    (Original post by hippohops)
    What do you think might happen now the UK has voted to leave the EU? Do you think they will agree to stay in the EEA? Or not? Will they make a system like Australia's where you must get a job offer etc.?

    If anyone has any ideas or thoughts or knowledge to share, please enlighten me.

    I wanted to leave the UK in the future and become citizen in another EU country, but I am afraid I won't be able to now, if it will become much harder for a normal person. I had a plan before but now I have no idea how things will be.

    I don't want this to be a debate about the Brexit results, I just want to discuss what might happen so that maybe I can get an idea of how to plan for whatever result.
    From what I understand Dis-May will try to please Brexiters and REMAIN voters by giving them a bit of both. Brexit had "world vision". REMAIN had contract work in the EU.


    Mixing the two, if Dis-May can get EasyJet flights to New York for £100 return and Free Movement for Londoners and New Yorkers in each others cities that would probably work. There are enough contracts in New York to make up for the lost ones and you can just about commute to New York (week-ends).

    Will this happen? NOPE... Its all a lie.

    The REMAIN'ers have been shafted.

    Dole queue beckons for Contractors.
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    (Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
    Well, we can stay in the EEA and have free movement, but we will have our law making powers back for good. Clearly this is a far more sane option than remain, unfortunately also, remainers are seemingly totally unaware of Norwegian or Swiss models,
    Norway and Switzerland have to follow EU laws, they just don't get a say in making them.

    We're well aware of the Swiss and Norwegian models, I just don't really understand why you'd want to change to a system where we give the same and get less in return?
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    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    Well, many have. Also, the population of non EU migrants is lower than EU migrants, and regardless you're still taking workers out of the workforce.
    We are not talking about the ones who are. We are talking about the ones who are too lazy to do it now. All of a sudden with no EU workers, they are going to start doing it.
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    (Original post by JordanL_)
    Norway and Switzerland have to follow EU laws, they just don't get a say in making them.

    We're well aware of the Swiss and Norwegian models, I just don't really understand why you'd want to change to a system where we give the same and get less in return?
    It's only laws on free movement for the single market and trade. They don't have the EU in their law making like we have. But anyhow, I want the whole EU to break up, we can co-operate on things we need to, and be sovereign, it worked much better, the EU is a mix of a misguided attempt to make wars never happen again in Europe, and an undemocratic superstate that lends itself to crony capitalism.
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    (Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
    It's only laws on free movement for the single market and trade.
    Which is a huge portion of EU law.

    Besides, as a Brexiter, are you saying that you don't mind loss of sovereignty, but that the EU did too much of it? That's a perfectly valid view, but my understanding of Leave's position in the referendum was that one EU law was one EU law too many.

    They don't have the EU in their law making like we have.
    Correct, they don't - it's imposed on them.

    But anyhow, I want the whole EU to break up, we can co-operate on things we need to, and be sovereign,
    How on earth is 28 squabbling countries better than a co-ordinated organisation?

    By that logic, would England be stronger overall if every county became its own country?

    it worked much better, the EU is a mix of a misguided attempt to make wars never happen again in Europe,
    Avoiding wars is misguided?

    and an undemocratic
    Classic Leave lie. The facts are that the EU has considerable democratic input. But don't let facts stop you.

    superstate that lends itself to crony capitalism.
    Are you basically the Sun newspaper in human form?
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    We are not talking about the ones who are. We are talking about the ones who are too lazy to do it now. All of a sudden with no EU workers, they are going to start doing it.
    And **** those who are. However, It is silly to assume most of these people are simply lazy.
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    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    And **** those who are. However, It is silly to assume most of these people are simply lazy.
    Yeh, you are lazy if you can't get a job at McDonalds or KFC.
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    (Original post by gladders)


    How on earth is 28 squabbling countries better than a co-ordinated organisation?

    By that logic, would England be stronger overall if every county became its own country?



    Avoiding wars is misguided?



    Classic Leave lie. The facts are that the EU has considerable democratic input. But don't let facts stop you.



    Are you basically the Sun newspaper in human form?
    1)Countries of the stature of France and the UK, with nuclear weapons, are much more in control and a threat independent, and making their own laws, trade anfd foreign policies. They are much stronger not subsidising any of the EU countries and getting nothing but a crappy protectionist economy, more bureaucrats and 'government' and blackmailing trade deal back, whilst they lose more and more law making powers. anyone the US knows that which is why the people 'we should listen to' in the US are so in favour of our membership, plus we further their agenda inside.

    2)It's not the same and you know it. We are talking up to 120million peopl, and at least 60 now. Well big enough, English counties are minute-larger states that are homogenized tend to favour authoritarianism and centralization. We are talking trying to homogenize the likes of Greece and Portugal with Germany, and look at the way they are treated.

    3)No, don't use semantics. The EU hasn't done so, and it is not as though even if it had it would justify everything else and being in it. It's impossible to know what would have happened had we been out, so it's a bogus argument from the off. The other reason the '70 years of stability and peace' argument is BS is that the Bosnian genocide, one of the worst atrocities in history, happened on it's doorstep while it stood by. Of course, this doesn't get aired as an argument in mainstream and would just be ignored or scoffed at, but it's objectively true and wasn't ever acknowledged.

    4)The EU has unelected policy and law makers. Legislation is secretive.

    5)No.

    Look, I know you can't let go, you're still sold on this dream. China hasn't been able to sign a deal with them in years, despite what that remainer Hunt said, and they just queued up to sign one with us as soon as we left. India is too. You don't hear this in heavily pro-remain media determined to say the world has fallen apart.
    The fact is that it's a rubbish deal and model and we could be getting it so much better, much of the argument to stay in was about others interests and not our own. We need to rediscover our national interests.
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    (Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
    1)Countries of the stature of France and the UK, with nuclear weapons, are much more in control and a threat independent, and making their own laws, trade anfd foreign policies. They are much stronger not subsidising any of the EU countries and getting nothing but a crappy protectionist economy, more bureaucrats and 'government' and blackmailing trade deal back, whilst they lose more and more law making powers. anyone the US knows that which is why the people 'we should listen to' in the US are so in favour of our membership, plus we further their agenda inside.
    That only goes so far. Much of Britain's impact is because of its membership of the EU. What are you suggesting we do, wave a nuclear weapon at countries that give us a bad trade deal?

    This just boils down to some assumption that other countries will go 'gosh, look at Britain, strutting out by itself! I'll sell myself short and trade with them, regardless of the economic nonsense that Brexit is!'

    2)It's not the same and you know it. We are talking up to 120million peopl, and at least 60 now. Well big enough, English counties are minute-larger states that are homogenized tend to favour authoritarianism and centralization. We are talking trying to homogenize the likes of Greece and Portugal with Germany, and look at the way they are treated.
    Sorry, but you haven't refuted my point at all. It's settled; England should dissolve into micro-states.

    There is simply no conception of Europe where 28 different voices is in any way better than one chorus. You keep saying it is as if it's fact - but nobody with any evidence has indicated it's better.

    But yeah. typical Brexiter - ignore facts and go with your gut.

    3)No, don't use semantics. The EU hasn't done so, and it is not as though even if it had it would justify everything else and being in it. It's impossible to know what would have happened had we been out, so it's a bogus argument from the off. The other reason the '70 years of stability and peace' argument is BS is that the Bosnian genocide, one of the worst atrocities in history, happened on it's doorstep while it stood by. Of course, this doesn't get aired as an argument in mainstream and would just be ignored or scoffed at, but it's objectively true and wasn't ever acknowledged.
    The EU's inability to handle the Bosnian crisis is a valid criticism, but not for the point you're trying to make. The EU was crippled by the slow decisionmaking process that the EU has for such fields of policy. The response was to streamline this policy to make the EU more effective in handling future 'Bosnias'. The result? Scaremongering by europhobes about a superstate. So the weakness of the EU is arguably the fault of people like yourself.

    You need to ask yourself if the Bosnian genocide would have been avoided or lessened if the EU had not existed - and there's no evidence for that.

    4)The EU has unelected policy and law makers. Legislation is secretive.
    Nonsense. The EU has a large elected presence - no less than the UK.

    You mean the Council? Yes, but that's par for the course when it comes to international negotiations. MEPs are very powerful and their meetings are publicly viewable.

    5)No.

    Look, I know you can't let go, you're still sold on this dream. China hasn't been able to sign a deal with them in years, despite what that remainer Hunt said, and they just queued up to sign one with us as soon as we left. India is too. You don't hear this in heavily pro-remain media determined to say the world has fallen apart.
    The fact is that it's a rubbish deal and model and we could be getting it so much better, much of the argument to stay in was about others interests and not our own. We need to rediscover our national interests.
    And yet every scenario of Brexit has indicated any post-EU 'deal' will be even rubbisher. Our national interests are to stay in the EU, but you seem obsessed with some kind of view of Britain that doesn't exist.
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    Can they not negotiate a sort of bilateral agreement for a tailored deal on free movement of people? Something like free movement of people to and from the UK with a limit of 2/3 months stay. And if someone wants to get a job, then apply for a work permit like your would in countries outside the EU?

    If something like that keeps us in the single market and keeps it tariff free then we can potentially have the best of both worlds, adhering to EU regulations when exporting to them, they adhere to our regulations when exporting to us. If it involves paying a fee to the EU then we should tell them stick it where the sun doesn't shine, its in both sides interests to have tariff free trade!

    Only other argument against it is if other countries see this, they might want to exit the EU too and get their own tailored deal, but do the EU really want to shoot themselves in the foot to hurt both of us, the phrase "cutting off your nose to spite your face" springs to mind. Do we want to be apart of a Union that has that mentality?

    Just some thoughts, and for transparency I voted leave if it wasn't already obvious, due to believing the British parliament should be held accountable for every law/regulation that affects the people living here.
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    (Original post by lewis7)
    Can they not negotiate a sort of bilateral agreement for a tailored deal on free movement of people? Something like free movement of people to and from the UK with a limit of 2/3 months stay. And if someone wants to get a job, then apply for a work permit like your would in countries outside the EU?

    If something like that keeps us in the single market and keeps it tariff free then we can potentially have the best of both worlds, adhering to EU regulations when exporting to them, they adhere to our regulations when exporting to us. If it involves paying a fee to the EU then we should tell them stick it where the sun doesn't shine, its in both sides interests to have tariff free trade!

    Only other argument against it is if other countries see this, they might want to exit the EU too and get their own tailored deal, but do the EU really want to shoot themselves in the foot to hurt both of us, the phrase "cutting off your nose to spite your face" springs to mind. Do we want to be apart of a Union that has that mentality?

    Just some thoughts, and for transparency I voted leave if it wasn't already obvious, due to believing the British parliament should be held accountable for every law/regulation that affects the people living here.
    The 2/3 months stay idea. Is just most major countries ruling for visits without a visa anyway.
 
 
 
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