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Some Jews and Muslims actually defend Donald Trump Watch

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    (Original post by WBZ144)
    Well then, hear you go. The stats of terrorist attacks carried out on US soil up until the past decade, according to FBI stats. And before you point out that this was 2005, how many terrorist attacks happened in the US since then which were motivated by Islamic extremism? One?
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/non-mus...merica/5333619

    Not to mention that Muslims in North America have drastically different stats to Muslims in many parts of Europe. To point to them as the biggest threat to national security is ludicrous and suggests that there are other reasons being behind this.
    http://edition.cnn.com/2015/12/08/us...misperception/

    What has Obama done to "oppress" the nation? And how many mass shootings have you heard of happening in the UK, as well as shootings of civilians by law enforcement? When a country is supposed to be relatively stable and you still have people going on shooting sprees every other week, obviously there is a massive problem. I'm not talking about a once in a while thing.
    Sorry I thought you were talking about the crime rate not terrorism rate. Either way I don't agree with your first source, it takes the left wing view of what is and what is not terrorism in the name of Islam, for example the Orlando shooting was clearly inspired by Islamic homophobia but I'm sure you and the FBI don't consider it as much.

    So if you can acknowledge that muslims outside the US have a vastly different criminality/potential for terrorism, doesn't that justify a muslim immigration ban?

    Obama openly supports domestic terrorist organisations like BLM, has spoken at and supported one of the most hardline terrorist linked mosque in the US (ISB Baltimore). The next step is to ensure all guns are taken away from law abiding citizens and remain in the hands of criminals until the populace are desperate and have no choice but to succumb to the new world order to ensure their personal safety.
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    (Original post by WBZ144)
    Since when did the US have issues with "uncontrolled immigration"? How many issues do the Muslim community in the US (who are generally educated, working and commit less crime) cause, as opposed to most of the other communities? A spade is a spade; if Trump makes xenophobic and bigoted comments which alienate entire communities then he is an xenophobe and a bigot, simple as. Considering the sheer amount of hatred I have seen radiating from his supporters on the Internet at all, I'm not about to try and "understand" such people.

    I understood from the start of the referendum that people had different reasons for voting for Brexit; even though I voted Remain, the EU is far from perfect. That does not compare to voting for a blatantly hateful and divisive man.
    US has uncontrolled immigration, or close to it from at the Mexican border.
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    Trump likes Jews, you have to be either very stupid, naive or a moron to believe that he has anything against Jews, his own daughter is Jewish, learn the facts.
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    Why is this surprising?
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    (Original post by Jebedee)
    Sorry I thought you were talking about the crime rate not terrorism rate. Either way I don't agree with your first source, it takes the left wing view of what is and what is not terrorism in the name of Islam, for example the Orlando shooting was clearly inspired by Islamic homophobia but I'm sure you and the FBI don't consider it as much.

    So if you can acknowledge that muslims outside the US have a vastly different criminality/potential for terrorism, doesn't that justify a muslim immigration ban?

    Obama openly supports domestic terrorist organisations like BLM, has spoken at and supported one of the most hardline terrorist linked mosque in the US (ISB Baltimore). The next step is to ensure all guns are taken away from law abiding citizens and remain in the hands of criminals until the populace are desperate and have no choice but to succumb to the new world order to ensure their personal safety.
    Do you have sources which show that Obama supported terrorists and those who promote violence (if it's based on the assumption that the entire BLM movement are terrorists, that doesn't count)?

    Since when was the FBI left-wing? And it was actually found that the Orlando shooter was mentally ill.

    I would never support banning an entire religious group from a country, however Americans cannot even use the excuse that other Europeans use to justify the anti-Muslim hatred in some parts of Europe. That was my point.

    Funny, you think that it's wrong to punish all gun owners for the actions of some gun owners, yet you have no problem doing the same to Muslims. Wonder why....
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    (Original post by Luke Kostanjsek)
    That's exactly the same line of reasoning that lead to Remain losing the Brexit referendum. The condescending view that anyone who votes for Trump is just doing so because they're afraid, or unintelligent, or just plain racist. And just like it cost Remain the referendum, it could very easily carry Trump into the White House.

    People have legitimate concerns about uncontrolled, illegal immigration from Mexico. They have legitimate concerns about trade deals which have lined the pockets of big business whilst simultaneously hemorrhaging low skilled jobs to countries in the Central Americas and Asia. They have legitimate concerns about radical Islam, and the spread of this poisonous ideology. And they have legitimate concerns about how US foreign policy has been largely flawed over the past couple decades. To write all of these off as just the irrational fears of a bunch of uneducated, racist, white men is simply adding fuel to the fire. To ignore these concerns, rather than confront them and put forwards an alternative, is only going to increase the likelihood that Trump finds himself in the Oval Office in a few months.

    And labelling all these concerns as the concerns of the inwards-looking and the xenophobic is perhaps the biggest danger of all. It has become pervasive amongst the Left to do so these days, and all it serves to do is alienate the increasingly large faction of society who do not view uncontrolled immigration as a good thing. Brexit was the first warning of this, and if it isn't heeded, then Donald Trump will be the second, far louder alarm.
    Bang on the money

    (Original post by Luke Kostanjsek)
    Building a wall between the USA and Mexico is racist how exactly? Trying to stop people illegally entering the USA from another country is not racist. He's not saying 'close the border with Mexico, no more Mexicans in the USA', he's saying 'hang on a second, why is it so easy for people to cross the border illegally?'. That's essentially saying that any country which has a border with any other country, and enforces it, is racist. Explain to me how stemming the flow of illegal immigrants suggests that Hispanics are fundamentally inferior to white people?
    Not only is it not racist, but Hillary Clinton proposed the exact same thing before the election:



    Besides, Trump said "a wall with a door" as in continuing to allow legal immigration and to keep out the illegal and criminal elements since - as Hillary alluded to in the video above - it's a Mexican government policy to try to send their criminals north. These "Trump is wayciss" people are the only ones conflating all Mexicans with their criminal element, not Trump. Oh noes, enforcing the pre-existing immigration policy. How awful.
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    (Original post by WBZ144)
    Do you have sources which show that Obama supported terrorists and those who promote violence (if it's based on the assumption that the entire BLM movement are terrorists, that doesn't count)?

    Since when was the FBI left-wing? And it was actually found that the Orlando shooter was mentally ill.

    I would never support banning an entire religious group from a country, however Americans cannot even use the excuse that other Europeans use to justify the anti-Muslim hatred in some parts of Europe. That was my point.

    Funny, you think that it's wrong to punish all gun owners for the actions of some gun owners, yet you have no problem doing the same to Muslims. Wonder why....
    He invited the Muslim brotherhood to the state department. I don't know how more brazen one would need to be for it to be clear. Even the Egyptians and Saudis consider them a terrorist organisation and that is saying something. http://freebeacon.com/national-secur...te-department/
    (that's aside from all the other divisive things he has done during his administration.

    Oh so the Orlando shooting had nothing to do with the fact the shooter's father openly supported Al-Qaeda and practices the most homophobic cult on the planet? How convenient.

    Not sure what you mean by your last comment, what would have to happen for the ban to be justified in your eyes?
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    (Original post by Jebedee)
    He invited the Muslim brotherhood to the state department. I don't know how more brazen one would need to be for it to be clear. Even the Egyptians and Saudis consider them a terrorist organisation and that is saying something. http://freebeacon.com/national-secur...te-department/
    (that's aside from all the other divisive things he has done during his administration.

    Oh so the Orlando shooting had nothing to do with the fact the shooter's father openly supported Al-Qaeda and practices the most homophobic cult on the planet? How convenient.

    Not sure what you mean by your last comment, what would have to happen for the ban to be justified in your eyes?
    And the USA has maintained close ties with many a brutal regime, far worse that the Muslim brotherhood throughout history. Every US president in the past century has gotten cozy with the Saud family. They all support violence in one way or another and most have engaged in it. Besides, he did not invite the Brotherhood. Some of its members (who arealso an Egyptian MPs) were in the White House.

    No, he declared his allegiance to ISIS, however there is no evidence whatsoever linking him to a group. On the other hand there is evidence that he had Gay lovers and was a self-hater, along with being mentally unstable. I give credit where credit is due. Besides, the other main Abrahamic religions are just as homophobic; it is actually the Bible that mentions that Gay men are to be stoned to death. Is it rational to punish all White Americans after one of them shot up a synagogue and another a Black church?

    I made what I was saying abundantly clear, if you need me to elaborate you are a hopeless case. And I already said that I would never support such a ban. What would need to happen to make you support gun control?
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    (Original post by WBZ144)
    And the USA has maintained close ties with many a brutal regime, far worse that the Muslim brotherhood throughout history. Every US president in the past century has gotten cozy with the Saud family. They all support violence in one way or another and most have engaged in it.

    No, he declared his allegiance to ISIS, however there is no evidence whatsoever linking him to a group. On the other hand there is evidence that he had Gay lovers and was a self-hater, along with being mentally unstable. I give credit where credit is due. Besides, the other main Abrahamic religions are just as homophobic; it is actually the Bible that mentions that Gay men are to be stoned to death. Is it rational to punish all White Americans after one of them shot up a synagogue and another a Black church?

    I made what I was saying abundantly clear, if you need me to elaborate you are a hopeless case. And I already said that I would never support such a ban. What would need to happen to make you support gun control?
    The Saudis are kept at arm's length for the sake of necessary economic reasons. There is no reason to jump in bed with the brotherhood unless you're looking to actively damage the US.

    Whether he was linked with a group or not, what kind of message do you think would be passed from father to child when the father supports terrorist groups? The bible is not taught to be the direct word of god, so Christians can choose to cherrypick from the bible and not necessarily be dishonest about their religion. The quran isn't like that.

    The muslim ban isn't about malice or blame, it is about national security.
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    (Original post by Jebedee)
    The Saudis are kept at arm's length for the sake of necessary economic reasons. There is no reason to jump in bed with the brotherhood unless you're looking to actively damage the US.

    Whether he was linked with a group or not, what kind of message do you think would be passed from father to child when the father supports terrorist groups? The bible is not taught to be the direct word of god, so Christians can choose to cherrypick from the bible and not necessarily be dishonest about their religion. The quran isn't like that.

    The muslim ban isn't about malice or blame, it is about national security.
    The US has an interest in most of the Middle East and will support whichever regime/party will serve its interests best. If that happens to be the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, the Brotherhood will gain US support over Sisi.

    Giving Saudi impunity to carry out one of the most brutal regimes in the world and blow the s*** out of Yemeni civilians hardly counts as "keeping them at arm's length". Moreover, they are far from the only oppressive regime which the US maintains close ties with.

    It was only recently that most Christians in the West stopped following the Bible literally. This is not the case in many third world countries, and there are even several Republican Americans who want to infringe on the rights and freedoms of others because they apparently displease God (though on a lesser scale). What makes Muslims more dishonest than them?

    What message does it send to a son when his father supports White supremacist groups?

    You didn't answer my question.

    Disarming Americans isn't about malice or blame, it's about national security.
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    The chances of you being killed by a terrorist are 1 in 20 million, whilst the chances of you drowning in a bath tub are 1 in 800,000. I reckon we ought to ban bath tubs from the UK instead.
 
 
 
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