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Should we deport Muslims who believe in Sharia? Watch

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    (Original post by Dez)
    Should we deport Christians who believe in the death penalty?
    What kind of an incredibly stupid comparison is that? Number one, millions of non-Christians believe in the death penalty too whereas no non-muslims agree with Sharia, and apart from that, the death penalty was part of our justice system for hundreds of years and only removed in the 1960s. Its very legitimate to think for the most heinous crimes death, by a quick and painless method like lethal injection or the electric chair may be needed whereas youd be hard come by to find people who think that severing a hand for theft, jail for BEING raped because it counts as "illicit" sex and stoning people is a good thing and the way we want our society to be run.

    For the record I agree with neither the death penalty nor deporting those who agree with sharia.
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    (Original post by HanSoloLuck)
    In your opinion, I bet there are a number of Muslims that would kill you for this, having a liberal interpretation of Islam.

    You probably aren't a bad person, but, if you really believe Islam is so open and tolerant then go and f%cking tell your fellow Muslims this, you can't because they would kill you, stop trying to convince the targets and victims that Islam is peaceful and go teach the believers. Go to Pakistann or Palestine or any Muslim country and say this [email protected]

    It's easier for you this way, and it's shameful, tell the potential victims they have nothing to fear, Islam only wants to be our friend and it is tolerant..as people are being murdered and raped all around us. Seriously, f%ck you. You are worse than the people doing the murdering, you are an enabler.
    I don't believe in Islam, I left it when I was 16.
    Why are you so offensive? I did not even defend the religion, go to my other posts you will find me saying that Muslims should start a new sect which denounces violence so that we can better filter out the fundamentalists.
    I don't believe Islam is tolerant, in fact I can quote you verses and verses that would oppose that show the intolerance of Islam. And who said that I believe that we have nothing to fear and that "all Muslims" want to be our friends? I do quite rightly know that there are thousands upon thousands who wish for nothing but to take away our freedom and liberalism.

    As to my comment, the one you quoted, it is not just my opinion. Those are called the "five pillars of Islam", anyone following them is a Muslims regardless of what they do. Regardless of whether they believe that all non-Muslims are infidels that should be killed, like Anjem Choudhary and co, or if they believe in Western liberal values, that the state should be secular and that Sharia has no place in the 21st century, like Maajid Nawaz and co (Quilliam foundation).
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    (Original post by HanSoloLuck)
    Again, go tell Muslim killing people that, you wont because they'll kill you, better to tell us, the people being killed, thatt Islam doesn't promote killing as Muslim kill us in the name of Islam.

    Despicable.
    You do know they kill more Muslims than all "Islamic" terror attacks in the west combined.
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    Islam teaches to live by the rules of the country you live in.
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    (Original post by oShahpo)
    1) Say "There is no God but Allah and Mohammed is his prophet"
    To be absolutely pedantic. When you say la ilaaha illallah, the "God" in "there is no god" should be in small letter, not capital G. The philosophy is that you're denouncing these gods and hence they do not exist/are false gods. Hence "god" not "God".

    To OP, no they shouldn't imo. Shariah, in essence, is a political ideology, and should be treated as such, shariah is not "just a religion".
    That said, there are 1.6 billion Muslims and seems to be 9.6 trillion versions of what "true sharia" is.
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    (Original post by celloel)
    It's 2016. We no longer follow any of the things you mentioned - Sharia Law, and those who believe in it, wish for them to be brought back. Do you not think that those who want to enforce Sharia law are infringing on human rights?

    Because that law directly infringes on our basic human rights and morals as decent people - death by stoning for adulterers, a female heir inherits half of what a male heir inherits, criticising the Quran, the Islamic god or Muhammad is punishable by death, a man can marry and have sex with 9 year old girls, a girl's clitoris should be cut, a man can beat his wife, do I need to go on?

    So yes, it makes perfect sense for any rational person to want to, by all means necessary, prevent this barbaric law from ever being implemented in modern, humane and rational societies.

    Understand the difference between Sharia law and Christianity. There is a huge difference and they are not comparable.
    If you look at the different countries which have Sharia, not all of them have the same laws as those you put in that list. Many Christians practice FGM. And the sex with 9 year olds is not legal anywhere lol. I'm not for implementing Sharia here btw.
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    (Original post by chemting)
    To be absolutely pedantic. When you say la ilaaha illallah, the "God" in "there is no god" should be in small letter, not capital G. The philosophy is that you're denouncing these gods and hence do not exist/and are false gods. Hence "god" not "God".

    To OP, no they shouldn't imo. Shariah, in essence, is a political ideology, and should be treated as such, shariah is not "just a religion".
    That said, there 1.6 billion Muslims and seems to be 9.6 trillion versions of what "true sharia" is.
    ... thanks :P
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    (Original post by oShahpo)
    That is not true. A Muslim, is by principle, a Muslim if they
    1) Say "There is no God but Allah and Mohammed is his prophet"
    2) Pray 5 times a day
    3) Fast Ramadan
    4) Visit the Cube in Saudi Arabia if they can
    5) Pay money to charity on a regular basis.

    Following those makes you a Muslim, even if you drink Whiskey for breakfast, swim in BLT sandwiches and have sex every 37 minutes.

    ** Actually, only the first one makes a person Muslim, the rest are mandatory too but the first one is most important.
    OK. So you confirm that members of ISIS are Muslims. Thanks. :cool:

    "Muslims consider the Quran to be the verbatim word of God as revealed to the Islamic prophet and messenger Muhammad. They also follow the sunnah teachings and practices of Muhammad as recorded in traditional accounts called hadit"

    So, it's a little bit more then just to say "There is no God but Allah and Mohammed is his prophet"..
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    (Original post by oShahpo)
    I don't believe in Islam, I left it when I was 16.
    Why are you so offensive? I did not even defend the religion, go to my other posts you will find me saying that Muslims should start a new sect which denounces violence so that we can better filter out the fundamentalists.
    I don't believe Islam is tolerant, in fact I can quote you verses and verses that would oppose that show the intolerance of Islam. And who said that I believe that we have nothing to fear and that "all Muslims" want to be our friends? I do quite rightly know that there are thousands upon thousands who wish for nothing but to take away our freedom and liberalism.

    As to my comment, the one you quoted, it is not just my opinion. Those are called the "five pillars of Islam", anyone following them is a Muslims regardless of what they do. Regardless of whether they believe that all non-Muslims are infidels that should be killed, like Anjem Choudhary and co, or if they believe in Western liberal values, that the state should be secular and that Sharia has no place in the 21st century, like Maajid Nawaz and co (Quilliam foundation).
    Any Muslim not being intolerant or teaching intolerance is a nominal theist, not actually a Muslim.

    Why am I being so offensive, because you are obscuring the precepts of Islam and actual Muslim beliefs, making it out to be some sort of vague inward looking spiritual concept that only requires a person to pray or call their God Allah when it is quite precisely the opposite. It requires outward actions of killing and subjugating others.

    This is the actual first pillar and precept of Islam;

    • Shahadah: sincerely reciting the Muslim profession of faith.
    This means believing and propagating a call for violence against none believers, it's a pretty big deal.
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    (Original post by oShahpo)
    ... thanks :P
    Yeah, I'm fun at parties...
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    (Original post by TheAdviser)
    You do know they kill more Muslims than all "Islamic" terror attacks in the west combined.
    To their mind they aren't actually Muslims, but heretics and blasphemers. And I wish they would do a better job of killing one another, do the human species a favor.
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    (Original post by admonit)
    OK. So you confirm that members of ISIS are Muslims. Thanks. :cool:

    "Muslims consider the Quran to be the verbatim word of God as revealed to the Islamic prophet and messenger Muhammad. They also follow the sunnah teachings and practices of Muhammad as recorded in traditional accounts called hadit"

    So, it's a little bit more then just to say "There is no God but Allah and Mohammed is his prophet"..
    Absolutely, I'd go as far as to say that ISIS are certainly more "Islamic" than many Muslims in this country.

    That statement is untrue. Not all Muslims have a beard despite it being a "Sunnah", so that alone disproves this statement.
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    (Original post by HanSoloLuck)

    • Shahadah: sincerely reciting the Muslim profession of faith.
    This means believing and propagating a call for violence against none believers, it's a pretty big deal.
    No, it doesn't mean that, all it means is saying "There is one god, and Muhammed is his prophet". In fact, you don't even have to believe in it to be Muslim, all you have to do is say it. I remember when I was young, I was taught that Muhammed, in wars, would ask his soldiers to refrain from killing people if they say the "Shahada". A guy asked him "what if they don't believe in it and only say it to be spared?", he said something like "It's between him and god".
    *I will look for sources when I come home
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    (Original post by HanSoloLuck)
    Any Muslim not being intolerant or teaching intolerance is a nominal theist, not actually a Muslim.

    Why am I being so offensive, because you are obscuring the precepts of Islam and actual Muslim beliefs, making it out to be some sort of vague inward looking spiritual concept that only requires a person to pray or call their God Allah when it is quite precisely the opposite. It requires outward actions of killing and subjugating others.

    This is the actual first pillar and precept of Islam;

    • Shahadah: sincerely reciting the Muslim profession of faith.
    This means believing and propagating a call for violence against none believers, it's a pretty big deal.
    Well, it's not actually as black and white as you say.
    To some, it is indeed a vague, inward looking spiritual concept, to others it's a conquest of subjugation and death.
    Islam, itself, is more of a political system that seeks to apply Shariah everywhere, than a religion, but whether or not a Muslim believes that in Shariah or not is up to them.

    You see, Muslims are born into Islam, they don't grow up atheists, then realise that Islam is some glorious concept that they should follow. A truly good person may not be strong enough to fight off the indoctrination and overcome the false belief in a god, but they certainly won't do everything that god says either, and despite that they will still be called Muslims because they follow the 5 pillars.
    In fact, I'd say the majority of Muslims follow the 5 pillars, which makes them Muslims, and do everything else based on their own morality and maybe a little guidance from the Quran.
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    (Original post by TheAdviser)
    Killing is haram.
    What the hell is haram?
    This is an English Website
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    (Original post by oShahpo)
    That statement is untrue. Not all Muslims have a beard despite it being a "Sunnah", so that alone disproves this statement.
    It's about interpretation.
    Spoiler:
    Show
    If growing beards was mandatory in the Noble Quran, then we would have nothing to argue about. But since it was mentioned in the Sayings of our beloved Prophet peace be upon him, then it is important to know whether this law should apply to all times and all places. Some of our Prophet's Sayings and laws were made only to solve situations that occurred 1400 years ago. These few Sayings don't necessarily have to be applied today.
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    (Original post by HanSoloLuck)
    To their mind they aren't actually Muslims, but heretics and blasphemers. And I wish they would do a better job of killing one another, do the human species a favor.
    What do you mean killing each other. They are killing innocent people . They are just radicalised maniacs that have nothing to do with the religion. They have been brainwashed and radicalised to carry out these attacks.

    If you look at the history of these terrorists that have attacked our countries you will see that they are not acting as Muslims at all. For example in the Bataclan attacks, Ibrahim Abdeslam (One of the brothers in the attacks) had owned a PUB before the attacks. Do you think a Muslim would own a pub despite it alcohol being forbidden in islam? These people are confused hypocritical "reverts" that have no idea what they are doing and they are definitely not following Islam.
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    (Original post by oShahpo)
    Well, it's not actually as black and white as you say.
    To some, it is indeed a vague, inward looking spiritual concept, to others it's a conquest of subjugation and death.
    Islam, itself, is more of a political system that seeks to apply Shariah everywhere, than a religion, but whether or not a Muslim believes that in Shariah or not is up to them.

    You see, Muslims are born into Islam, they don't grow up atheists, then realise that Islam is some glorious concept that they should follow. A truly good person may not be strong enough to fight off the indoctrination and overcome the false belief in a god, but they certainly won't do everything that god says either, and despite that they will still be called Muslims because they follow the 5 pillars.
    In fact, I'd say the majority of Muslims follow the 5 pillars, which makes them Muslims, and do everything else based on their own morality and maybe a little guidance from the Quran.
    Yeah, i don't care if they were born into it, that's apologetic nonsense to again obscure that actual practicing Muslims are preaching the death and subjugation of non-believers.

    You want to talk about nominal Muslims that don't believe in killing others, but propagate something akin to 'Mein Kanmp' as a world view, as people born in a bad situation.

    I don't care if they don't fully grasp the destructive and intolerant beliefs of which they were born in to, I don't care if they mean well, I don't care that many Muslims don't commit violent acts in the name of their religion.

    What I do care about are the consequences and subsequent body count their beliefs create, they create the terrorists with their indifference and willful ignorance of the consequences of their beliefs.

    And you help with this [email protected], by obscuring the actual problem of Islam and trying to absolve those that precipitate it. Ignorance is not the same as innocence.
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    (Original post by M14B)
    What the hell is haram?
    This is an English Website
    http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/de.../english/haram

    Buy a dictionary.
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    TSR Group Staff
    (Original post by JNDSAN)
    What kind of an incredibly stupid comparison is that? Number one, millions of non-Christians believe in the death penalty too whereas no non-muslims agree with Sharia, and apart from that, the death penalty was part of our justice system for hundreds of years and only removed in the 1960s. Its very legitimate to think for the most heinous crimes death, by a quick and painless method like lethal injection or the electric chair may be needed whereas youd be hard come by to find people who think that severing a hand for theft, jail for BEING raped because it counts as "illicit" sex and stoning people is a good thing and the way we want our society to be run.

    For the record I agree with neither the death penalty nor deporting those who agree with sharia.
    You've missed the point.

    Deporting people for believing in Sharia law is basically creating a thought crime, it's now illegal to agree with an idea, even if you never implement it. So equivalently, if a Christan believes in the death penalty, yet has never killed anyone, should they also be considered guilty of a thought crime (since cap. punishment is outlawed) and thus deported?
 
 
 
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