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    (Original post by Gora The Xplorer)
    He is the democratically elected leader and until he is voted out, he is in charge and is the leader with the mandate to rule. Freedom is the right to choose how you live your life and on what terms, freedom goes beyond merely conforming to the expectations of tsr member: RobML :rofl:

    Like I said, I accept he is a legit ruler and shouldn't be removed by force, so that's basically a non-criticism.
    The Turkish people had the freedom at particular point in time to vote Erdogan in, but if he continues in the way he's going they're going to be experiencing less and less of it.
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    (Original post by Gora The Xplorer)
    To play devil's advocate, why should Turkey be secular? It's a majority Muslim country and it's only Europeans who seem to wish to erode their way of life.
    1. Its part of their modern history
    2. This is the beginning of a dictatorship

    (Original post by swiss_cheese)
    Because a military coup would turn Turkey into the next Syria, do you really want something like that next to Greece? Europe would collapse.
    So you'd rather an Islamic dictator and the rise of Erdogan to supreme power whereby he cannot be challenged? Erdogan is going to lead us towards the next Ottoman Empire and the military coup was his Reichstag Fire/Night of the Long Knives. He's now removed opposition, removed judges and will replace them with his own and he will have supreme rule over the military. The parallels between Turkey and Nazi Germany are incredibly alarming but people think its great. Naive people who followed the Nazi's thought it was great back then as well. Look at how that turned out.

    (Original post by Phil_Blaze)
    It's important to remember that he was democratically elected so the Turkish people were fighting for their democratic right and were not entirely sure what the new military regime would have bought(even though it may have been more ideal). We also have to remember that we are looking at the situation from a foreign perspective and not as an actual Turkish person currently in Ankara or Istanbul viewing the military in the streets.
    Incorrect - absolutely incorrect - the first election in Turkey led to a hung parliament and due to the only combinations that could be made to a coalition were not Islamic, the two main parties decided against it - this led to another election - what did AKP do? They struck fear into the lives of people in the south and east of the country and through fear won the next election. That is not democracy at all. It is foul play.



    The soldiers are now being punished by being forced to look at a picture of Erdogan. If they blink, something they will involuntary do, they are being beaten. Saddam Hussein used to use similar inhumane tactics.

    Here's an opinion of a person from Turkey: https://www.reddit.com/r/Turkey/comm...8b&sh=5dbcdcc1

    Welcome to the Islamic Republic of Turkey: https://twitter.com/Homogenic__/stat...49849286848512

    We must open up Europe to secular Turks and give them the free and democratic lives they deserve.
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    (Original post by RobML)
    Like I said, I accept he is a legit ruler and shouldn't be removed by force, so that's basically a non-criticism.
    The Turkish people had the freedom at particular point in time to vote Erdogan in, but if he continues in the way he's going they're going to be experiencing less and less of it.
    and at what point has Erdogan pledged to dismantle democracy? Don't ever mistake democracy for secularism or liberalism, across the entire globe, most people hate the West and they hate Western culture.
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    (Original post by Infamous*)
    The Ottoman Empire is long gone m8
    It will be back shortly as Erdogan now knows he has supreme power, little opposition and can call on his barbarian Jihad Army via the mosques to club dissenters to death then sever off their heads.

    (Original post by fatima1998)
    yess! the OP is keep making threads that aren't funny and i just feel arghhhhhhhh
    Does the truth hurt? If you don't like it then read other threads.

    (Original post by Gora The Xplorer)
    OP is a nice guy, but he should respect the choices other people make in the same way that brexit should be respected. Not everyone wants to be European.
    Not everyone has to be European. Canadians are not European and thats cool. Japanese people are not European and thats cool. I do have a problem with a once secular country under attack having its democracy eroded through fear, violence and civil unrest and shifting towards an Islamic Republic. Ataturk would be rolling in his grave.
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    (Original post by Gora The Xplorer)
    and at what point has Erdogan pledged to dismantle democracy? Don't ever mistake democracy for secularism or liberalism, across the entire globe, most people hate the West and they hate Western culture.


    He's going to establish a dictatorship - just you wait and see.
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    When the east fails to conform to western expectations



    The mass triggering :rofl:
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    (Original post by welshiee)


    He's going to establish a dictatorship - just you wait and see.
    Democracy is like a train, stand in it's way and get BTFO'd.
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    (Original post by Gora The Xplorer)
    and at what point has Erdogan pledged to dismantle democracy? Don't ever mistake democracy for secularism or liberalism, across the entire globe, most people hate the West and they hate Western culture.
    Well, his persecution and silencing of opposition for a start.
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    (Original post by welshiee)
    1. Its part of their modern history
    2. This is the beginning of a dictatorship



    So you'd rather an Islamic dictator and the rise of Erdogan to supreme power whereby he cannot be challenged? Erdogan is going to lead us towards the next Ottoman Empire and the military coup was his Reichstag Fire/Night of the Long Knives. He's now removed opposition, removed judges and will replace them with his own and he will have supreme rule over the military. The parallels between Turkey and Nazi Germany are incredibly alarming but people think its great. Naive people who followed the Nazi's thought it was great back then as well. Look at how that turned out.



    Incorrect - absolutely incorrect - the first election in Turkey led to a hung parliament and due to the only combinations that could be made to a coalition were not Islamic, the two main parties decided against it - this led to another election - what did AKP do? They struck fear into the lives of people in the south and east of the country and through fear won the next election. That is not democracy at all. It is foul play.



    The soldiers are now being punished by being forced to look at a picture of Erdogan. If they blink, something they will involuntary do, they are being beaten. Saddam Hussein used to use similar inhumane tactics.

    Here's an opinion of a person from Turkey: https://www.reddit.com/r/Turkey/comm...8b&sh=5dbcdcc1

    Welcome to the Islamic Republic of Turkey: https://twitter.com/Homogenic__/stat...49849286848512

    We must open up Europe to secular Turks and give them the free and democratic lives they deserve.
    What did you expect? This isn't a game, this is taking your nation to the brink of civil war
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    (Original post by welshiee)
    Incorrect - absolutely incorrect - the first election in Turkey led to a hung parliament and due to the only combinations that could be made to a coalition were not Islamic, the two main parties decided against it - this led to another election - what did AKP do? They struck fear into the lives of people in the south and east of the country and through fear won the next election. That is not democracy at all. It is foul play.



    The soldiers are now being punished by being forced to look at a picture of Erdogan. If they blink, something they will involuntary do, they are being beaten. Saddam Hussein used to use similar inhumane tactics.

    Here's an opinion of a person from Turkey: https://www.reddit.com/r/Turkey/comm...8b&sh=5dbcdcc1

    Welcome to the Islamic Republic of Turkey: https://twitter.com/Homogenic__/stat...49849286848512

    We must open up Europe to secular Turks and give them the free and democratic lives they deserve.
    I don't support Erdogan but I was trying to put it into the context of a Turkish citizen who was experiencing the coup to answer your question. In the minds of an ordinary citizen, they would think he was democratically elected.
    Personally, I feel sorry for Turkish soldiers as they were trying to do their duty towards their country.
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    (Original post by Gora The Xplorer)
    What did you expect? This isn't a game, this is taking your nation to the brink of civil war
    It will be a dictatorship under the false pretences of a democracy.
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    (Original post by welshiee)
    It will be a dictatorship under the false pretences of a democracy.
    When you pick up a machine gun and attempt to violently overthrow your government you are making a statement that you are willing to end the lives of those people you oppose. What did the Roman empire do to cowards and traitors?
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    (Original post by Gora The Xplorer)
    When you pick up a machine gun and attempt to violently overthrow your government you are making a statement that you are willing to end the lives of those people you oppose. What did the Roman empire do to cowards and traitors?
    Should be "What did the Ottoman empire do to cowards and traitors?"


    Posted from TSR Mobile
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    (Original post by welshiee)
    It will be a dictatorship under the false pretences of a democracy.
    I think that the system may need to be shapened up
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    (Original post by Gora The Xplorer)
    When the east fails to conform to western expectations



    The mass triggering :rofl:
    PRSOM
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    (Original post by IdeasForLife)
    Should be "What did the Ottoman empire do to cowards and traitors?"


    Posted from TSR Mobile

    They really knew how to make their point
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    (Original post by Al-farhan)
    PRSOM
    Very funny, grow up.
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    Because too many are idealists who are unwilling to act in their own self interest.

    Pure democracy (which is what a lot of naive people are supporting here) is great in principal but in practice it is vulnerable to cultural inferiority and that is what we have seen. If we take the military at their word then the plan sounded a lot like Egypt where democracy is allowed but Islamists are kept off the ballot, that is a far superior solution to a pure Turkish democracy in which the eventual conclusion is something along the lines of Sharia.

    When will people accept that not all cultures are equal. You can't apply our institutional values in an Arab State, they are similar too culturally inferior.
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    (Original post by RobML)
    Very funny, grow up.
    triggered
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    (Original post by RobML)
    Very funny, grow up.
    :hmmm:
    Calm down bud.
 
 
 
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