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If multiculturalism has failed, it's because of the white British majority. Watch

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    (Original post by Akamega)
    Again, your comments are exactly what I have described in my post. It's a mutually benefitting relationship. Migrant workforces have filled important gaps in the economy for decades on end, and yet we treat them as if they've come here only because of our benevolence. It's a warped sense of patriotism that just doesn't reflect the both points of view. My point about the languages was not that every Brit has to learn one of their languages, it's that our arrogance is incredible. We expect them to learn a relatively difficult language upon landing here, whilst many of indigenous Brits can barely speak a second language. The Asians you mention in your posts are the same ones who are the first point of contact when you have a medical emergency. They look after you and your family, and have since they came here in the 1970's. Their many corner shops feed and contribute to our economy. And yet, you think they're just here because it's for "diversity".

    Japan have very strict laws on immigration and don't like foreigners of any kind, but their workforce is incredibly homogenous. Ours isn't. We are a country that has always had it's hand in other countries pockets, Japan hasn't. Don't get me wrong though, Brits in general tolerate ethnic minorities, but like I mentioned there is a difference between tolerance and multiculturalism - which I view as the acceptance of different cultures, rather than assimilation.
    It's true that there are immigrants that do good jobs in the UK, but are you supposing British people would be incapable of doing those jobs? It wouldn't be hard to create more British nurses rather than importing them, if there was a will to do it, it could be done. We had shops and medical services before immigration. Japan's workforce is homogenous because they keep it that way.

    Only thing I see is that service related jobs and other min wage jobs would have to pay their employees more if they were British which might harm the profit margins of major corporations but would be better for society as a whole.
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    (Original post by Akamega)
    But nobody wants the culture they come with.
    Of course not! If we wanted that culture we would go to India and live in a society that cannot rid itself of racism, classism, exploitation, mistreatment of women, poverty, superstition and other ills.

    We don't want that culture (and have developed away from such things) and don't want immigrants to bring any aspect of it with them. If they come here they must assimilate and adhere to British values and practices.

    If they wish to stick with the old culture then the obvious place to do that is where the culture sought is endemic.
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    (Original post by Akamega)
    It is unreasonable, considering the vast majority of jobs that European migrants and other economic migrants that the media has been focusing on, apply for are low-skilled. There is absolutely no reason for them to learn English; it won't make them perform low-skilled jobs better, nor does it make much sense for an employer to look for an English-speaking migrant to do a job that doesn't require that skill. Your position is a very particular one and far removed from anything particular economic migrants experience. As I said before, them simply having a job doesn't require them to learn English, nor is it reasonable to expect them to go out of their way to learn it when they don't need too. This is all besides the point though, the public in my opinion, want migrants to speak English for social reasons, not for economic reasons. They don't want them to speak English for the migrants' benefit; we simply want to hear people speaking English for the sake of it, which in my opinion is entirely unreasonable to expect when there is no social benefit for them doing so. There is going to be distaste regardless.

    I think we agree. My original point was, if multiculturalism is failing it's because of an unwillingness of the British majority to embrace or learn about another culture. Whilst I personally think that multiculturalism is a potentially great social system, I'm not arguing that by default it's the moral superior. It's perfectly fine for the British public not to want multiculturalism, and to merely tolerate other communities practising their cultures. I'm simply stating that multiculturalism is failing because of white, indigenous British people.
    I guess I can see the point you're making, but whilst learning English isn't completely necessary to perform the job at hand, it certainly will make communication between employees easier and could enable the immigrant to eventually get a better job that does require English-speaking skills. I think that the social issues are inevitably intertwined though, I agree that people probably feel 'safer', if that's the right word, if migrants do speak English, but it's hard to deny the importance of both natives and migrants being able to live in harmony or else tensions within society will be raised and conflict is more likely. Whether or not one thinks that it is reasonable for a migrant to learn the native language is a matter of opinion, and I'm going to have to disagree with you. If the migrant is staying just for a year, then no problem. But if they want to stay in the long term it's entirely justifiable to expect them to assimilate more into society.

    Overall though, and I think I said so at the end of my original post, I can agree that multiculturalism is 'failing' to some extent due to resistance from the native population. I think multiculturalism can work amongst similar cultures, like the aforementioned EU countries and other English-speaking nations, my main opposition to it is having to accept some, quite frankly disgusting, views from mainly African or Middle Eastern immigrants. These types of immigrants expect their values to take precedence over native values, which is unacceptable, and anyone who resists this nowadays is branded a racist despite it having nothing to do with race and everything to do with their views on certain topics. I think the principle of free movement is good, but only amongst similar countries. Civic, not ethnic, nationalism is the way forward. A society built upon common values, not common colour/culture etc.
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    Multiculturalism and Assimilation must be in a balancing act for the benefit of both parties. Too much assimilation leads to arrogance, whereas too much multiculturalism will lead to the loss of British culture and value.
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    OP this is the stupidest thing I have ever read in my entire life.
    If I entered Iran with a Bible in my hand and demanded to share the word of God with the Iranian public, I would be hung.
    So why on earth do you expect people to ignore our unique culture, yes, the BRITISH CULTURE, and instead bulldoze it with unwelcome and unwanted aspects such as sharia law?
    "When in Rome do as the Romans do" - isn't it common sense that if you move to a ****ing country intent on spending the rest of your life there, you learn the ****ing language?
    But no, you cultural Marxists will destroy any shred of pride and joy we have for this beautiful country, and instead turn it into a melting pot for all nationalities.
    God help us all.


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    You have been indoctrinated from a young age with this multiculturalist shite, which has forced down the necks of every schoolchild in Britain.
    Yes, why don't we accept the culture of stoning women to death for being a rape victim? Why don't we hang people for reading the bible?




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    "The fascists of the future will call themselves the anti-fascists"


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    How can you have the impertinence to blame the indigenous folk for not accepting people for not learning English?
    I'll move to Bangladesh not speaking a word of any other tongue but my native tongue, and let's see how far I get.


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    (Original post by tengentoppa)
    Multiculturalism is inherently a terrible idea. Vastly different social and cultural ideas can hardly exist harmoniously within the same legal system and culture.

    Multiculturalism is not an ideal to be strived for. Quite the opposite, immigrants should be required to drop any aspect of their culture which is incompatible with British values when they come here.
    Multiculturalism is not only inevitable, it's happening the world over and has happened since time began. It's how we learn by seeing how other people do things and picking out what we think is better. So we have learnt from every culture we have been in contact with and they have learnt from us.

    We learnt from the 'Celts' when they arrived - metal working.
    We learnt from the Vikings - exploration, sailing
    We learn from the Arabs - algebra, astronomy
    We learn from the Flemish - weaving / luxury trades
    We learnt from the French, the Germans, the Russians, the Chinese, the South Americans, the Spanish, the Italians, the Poles, the Syrians etc etc.

    All the many peoples who have arrived here have also learnt from us.

    We thought many of them were inferior when they first arrived - the Irish, the Scots, the Jews, the Indians, the West Indians, the Chinese ... but in time we learnt from each other and are the richer literally and metaphorically for it.

    The British are in general an easy going , receptive nation,. open to new ideas . We have the highest rate of mixed marriages in Europe - proof of our intelligence and tolerance.
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    (Original post by DauntlessOne)
    I'd contribute to this discussion, but the people who run this website, who I find are excessively discriminative against non liberal ideals sharers, are on to me, deleting any post I make because they don't agree with it. Bottom line is they are leftist extremists and they are extremely oppressive.
    I can still see this one which kinda debunks part of what you have said.
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    (Original post by pickup)
    Multiculturalism is not only inevitable, it's happening the world over and has happened since time began. It's how we learn by seeing how other people do things and picking out what we think is better. So we have learnt from every culture we have been in contact with and they have learnt from us.

    We learnt from the 'Celts' when they arrived - metal working.
    We learnt from the Vikings - exploration, sailing
    We learn from the Arabs - algebra, astronomy
    We learn from the Flemish - weaving / luxury trades
    We learnt from the French, the Germans, the Russians, the Chinese, the South Americans, the Spanish, the Italians, the Poles, the Syrians etc etc.

    All the many peoples who have arrived here have also learnt from us.

    We thought many of them were inferior when they first arrived - the Irish, the Scots, the Jews, the Indians, the West Indians, the Chinese ... but in time we learnt from each other and are the richer literally and metaphorically for it.

    The British are in general an easy going , receptive nation,. open to new ideas . We have the highest rate of mixed marriages in Europe - proof of our intelligence and tolerance.
    The last time I looked Scotland was already "here"

    People are welcome to come to the party if they bring something good to it. It is dubious, very dubious, that ALL do. Can you honestly say that EVERY group of people have enriched or improved the lives of the indigenous people of the UK? Some on here will attempt to read more into that than there is but that says more about them than me.
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    (Original post by Akamega)
    The majority try too, but the demands seem unrealistic and uncompromising. There is also an obvious non-attempt to learn about these people. As I said, multiculturalism isn't a one-way street.
    Why should there be any compromise?

    If someone moves into another country and exhibits behaviour that harasses, intimidates, or harms someone who is living in that country, and then tries to excuse it because of their culture allowing it "back home", then I don't see why any compromise needs to be made. At all.

    So yes, it is a one-way street; anyone can bring the positive aspects of their culture into Britain all day long and I won't find a problem with it in the slightest, but if someone's gonna come to the country and act like a **** then they can piss off back to wherever they came from as far as I'm concerned.

    I won't tolerate intolerance, and I don't see why anyone else should either.
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    (Original post by Akamega)
    It struck me the other the day that the failure of multiculturalism - which, I see as the acceptance of different cultures, not just tolerating them - was/has been thoroughly rejected by the indigenous white majority from the very beginning. When I hear white Britons talk about their ideal view of multiculturalism, it often isn't multiculturalism, in fact, its assimilation. The reason I say this is for two reasons:

    1) The white indigenous majority often cite migrants not learning English and accepting traditionally British values as their main reason for disliking multiculturalism. But they expect migrants to come here and immediately take steps to learn English and expect them to speak English in public. Many white indigenous British people that I've spoken to lack any empathy when it comes to migrants. They don't consider that perhaps, expecting them to work and at the same time pick up English without their being enough support (Germany has training centres for immigrants where they teach them German), is akin to dropping someone in the middle of the English channel and expecting them to swim to shore. In reality, they'll just float; they'll find communities where they can exist peacefully and not make any progress.

    2) Indigenous white British people also assume that multiculturalism is a one-way street. They want migrants to learn English but the vast majority of indigenous British people are monoglots. There is the assumption that they must learn everything from us, but us nothing from them. To put it simply we reek of arrogance. That does not mean we must accept arcane practices from their regions (I concede, many of cultures have values I'd never accept), but perhaps we should try to embrace the bits of their culture that are enriching. Learn about their history, culture and their lives before Britain, especially if they come from Commonwealth countries (that essentially propped our economy up for centuries). In my view, there is this undeniable attitude in the UK that we give these people more than they give us, but in reality, our NHS and in fact, our workforce would collapse without them.

    Title is provocative, but from my experiences it's genuinely the truth. What do you guys think?
    Very good news!
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    I'm left leaning but I do worry that it has failed in a way. Multiculturalism isn't something you sit back and let develop you've got to actively carry it out if you want it to succeed.

    Anecdotal but when I was doing my work experience at a training center for the unemployed there was a guy there who had been here three years and couldn't speak English at all pretty much. I would understand if he was old but he was a young man of about 20. He admitted that his hostel was filled with his own countrymen so he had no reason to speak it. He only spoke it during his one hour a week English classes which is not how you learn a language (I mean, look at all the years of French we do at school!). You've got to engage with the language, mix with English speakers so you can grasp the intricacies.

    The language barrier has people retreating wholly into their communities which results in not multiculturalism but monoculturalism just many of them :/ . These close knit communities drive us apart not together. The Caribbeans who arrived after the war and the first Asians seemed to have mixed well but that's because they had no choice. There were no Caribbean or Asian communities to withdraw into, they HAD to assimilate.
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    (Original post by Drunk Punx)
    Why should there be any compromise?

    If someone moves into another country and exhibits behaviour that harasses, intimidates, or harms someone who is living in that country, and then tries to excuse it because of their culture allowing it "back home", then I don't see why any compromise needs to be made. At all.

    So yes, it is a one-way street; anyone can bring the positive aspects of their culture into Britain all day long and I won't find a problem with it in the slightest, but if someone's gonna come to the country and act like a **** then they can piss off back to wherever they came from as far as I'm concerned.

    I won't tolerate intolerance, and I don't see why anyone else should either.
    First, I already mentioned in my post that ideology that is immoral should not be tolerated; we're a progressive community, nothing should get in the way of that. Second, I think your post exemplifies my point. You've implied that the only thing that migrants bring along with them is behaviour that intimidates, harasses and harms others. That's complete nonsense. As I've said before, the majority of the migrant population works and contributes towards our economy. Most of them live peacefully in their respective communities in Britain. Somehow, you've got the idea that they only bring along, what can only be described as, horrific behaviour. So no, indigenous British culture isn't perfect; just as they learn from us about what it means to be British, perhaps we must learn from them and take the good from their culture.
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    (Original post by Akamega)
    First, I already mentioned in my post that ideology that is immoral should not be tolerated; we're a progressive community, nothing should get in the way of that. Second, I think your post exemplifies my point. You've implied that the only thing that migrants bring along with them is behaviour that intimidates, harasses and harms others. That's complete nonsense. As I've said before, the majority of the migrant population works and contributes towards our economy. Most of them live peacefully in their respective communities in Britain. Somehow, you've got the idea that they only bring along, what can only be described as, horrific behaviour. So no, indigenous British culture isn't perfect; just as they learn from us about what it means to be British, perhaps we must learn from them and take the good from their culture.
    "anyone can bring the positive aspects of their culture into Britain all day long and I won't find a problem with it in the slightest"

    lern 2 reed

    I never said that immigrants only bring the negative with them, I said that those who do bring the negative with them shouldn't be tolerated.

    Your post seems to be predicated on the opinion that immigrants only bring over positive things, which is as equally nonsensical as your assumption that my argument states contrary to that.
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    (Original post by Akamega)
    It struck me the other the day that the failure of multiculturalism - which, I see as the acceptance of different cultures, not just tolerating them - was/has been thoroughly rejected by the indigenous white majority from the very beginning. When I hear white Britons talk about their ideal view of multiculturalism, it often isn't multiculturalism, in fact, its assimilation. The reason I say this is for two reasons:

    1) The white indigenous majority often cite migrants not learning English and accepting traditionally British values as their main reason for disliking multiculturalism. But they expect migrants to come here and immediately take steps to learn English and expect them to speak English in public. Many white indigenous British people that I've spoken to lack any empathy when it comes to migrants. They don't consider that perhaps, expecting them to work and at the same time pick up English without their being enough support (Germany has training centres for immigrants where they teach them German), is akin to dropping someone in the middle of the English channel and expecting them to swim to shore. In reality, they'll just float; they'll find communities where they can exist peacefully and not make any progress.

    2) Indigenous white British people also assume that multiculturalism is a one-way street. They want migrants to learn English but the vast majority of indigenous British people are monologlots. There is the assumption that they must learn everything from us, but us nothing from them. To put it simply we reek of arrogance. That does not mean we must accept arcane practices from their regions (I concede, many of cultures have values I'd never accept), but perhaps we should try to embrace the bits of their culture that are enriching. Learn about their history, culture and their lives before Britain, especially if they come from Commonwealth countries (that essentially propped our economy up for centuries). In my view, there is this undeniable attitude in the UK that we give these people more than they give us, but in reality, our NHS and in fact, our workforce would collapse without them.

    Title is provocative, but from my experiences it's genuinely the truth. What do you guys think?
    1. There is this expectation because to become a functional member of any society without changing said society, immigrants must learn the language and initgrate. Much in the same way that if you want a blue drink to stay blue you don't put red food dye in it. The reasoning for this is that people like thier country the way it is, and in fact immigrants like that country the way it is as well(otherwise they would not have left their home).

    2. It is not a two way street because they have no reason to change, they are not coming into your country, you are coming into theirs. So because they have built this country you like better than your own through their handwork, the lowness is on you to make the effort to please them as they have repaid you with the opportunity of being in the country(this logic would apply to any country btw). This is much in the same way that if you go to a house that doesn't allow shoes inside you take them off at the door, regardless of your shoe practices at home.

    Finally i get the feeling that you think this is a English or western only phenomena, this type of behavior occurs in every country in the world, and is much worse in other parts of the world.
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    (Original post by Akamega)
    Again, your comments are exactly what I have described in my post. It's a mutually benefitting relationship. Migrant workforces have filled important gaps in the economy for decades on end, and yet we treat them as if they've come here only because of our benevolence. It's a warped sense of patriotism that just doesn't reflect the both points of view. My point about the languages was not that every Brit has to learn one of their languages, it's that our arrogance is incredible. We expect them to learn a relatively difficult language upon landing here, whilst many of indigenous Brits can barely speak a second language. The Asians you mention in your posts are the same ones who are the first point of contact when you have a medical emergency. They look after you and your family, and have since they came here in the 1970's. Their many corner shops feed and contribute to our economy. And yet, you think they're just here because it's for "diversity".

    Japan have very strict laws on immigration and don't like foreigners of any kind, but their workforce is incredibly homogenous. Ours isn't. We are a country that has always had it's hand in other countries pockets, Japan hasn't. Don't get me wrong though, Brits in general tolerate ethnic minorities, but like I mentioned there is a difference between tolerance and multiculturalism - which I view as the acceptance of different cultures, rather than assimilation.
    Why should the majority of Brits speak a different language? We are in our native land and our native tongue is English we are not required to be bilingual. However those who emigrate here should be of a certain standard in English. It's common courtesy and will help them get by. If I were to move to Germany I would learn German.
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    Because of the white British majority is one but not the only reason why the multiculturalism has failed. There are many other factors that we have to consider.
 
 
 
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