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    (Original post by -1984-)
    Exactly. There's very little difference. In fact, if we were to imagine the unimaginable, in a war between the US and China, I think Taiwanese loyalty would lie with the PRC. Obviously, a lot will depend on the reasons behind such a war itself.
    I think that would only hold true if the war were started by a unilateral US attack.
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    (Original post by Agent Smith)
    I think that would only hold true if the war were started by a unilateral US attack.
    Probably right, but that still says something about the declining antaginistic feelings between the Taiwanese and the PRC in my opinion.
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    (Original post by -1984-)
    Probably right, but that still says something about the declining antaginistic feelings between the Taiwanese and the PRC in my opinion.
    Yeah... certainly the Pan-Green Coalition doesn't enjoy the support one might expect. I would be sad to see Taiwan absorbed into China, but I would also be quite sad to see a massive war erupt over it, so...
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    (Original post by RK89)
    1. The US probably does have the technology to smite missles out of the sky, they just havent made it public knowledge yet for security reasons
    What the hell? Why not?! It's an entirely defensive thing. They'd want people to know, so they don't even bother trying. Why would they keep it a secret? So they can provoke people, await the nukes, shoot them out the sky (whilst keeping their fingers crossed that it works) and then laugh.

    And besides, the Pariot Missile project isn't like the Manhattan Project - all military progressions are now made by private companies like Chobbham and Lockheed. With the number of people working on making it, and maintaining it, training in it and using it nowadays it couldn't be kept secret, even if they wanted it to be. We all know about the SAS, we all know about the F117, we all know about the SR-71 - all these are meant to be secret. I'm not saying we know everything, but something that huge simply couldn't be kept secret in this day and age.

    2. The US could decide at an instant to withdraw trade from China.
    China would lose their biggest importer, but they'd still have... the rest of the world. What would happen to the American economy? They'd be cutting off their nose to spite their face.

    3. The industral and urbanised part of China is probably the size of Great Britain. Most of China is still peasent farming.
    So how are you going to "bomb them from afar"?

    4. The US still has the best milltary technology in the world, the chinese stuff is generations behind. The amount of rockets the US has could flatten chinas economic and technolgical zones very quickly, and aircraft could finish the job.
    They really couldn't. F18's aren't untouchable. It's already been shown that China can blow satellites out of space - how well do you think smart bombs would do without GPRS, satellite recon and a ridiculously minimised communcations bandwidth? What would they use to launch from "afar"?

    And if China really was sitting there getting dicked on, and it couldn't do anything about it, do you really think they'd hesitate to enforce a bit of deja-vu on Japan, one of the US's biggest ally's just to the east? They could literally flatten Japan in a day.

    You're doing exactly what you were doing in the EMA thread - just saying things without any justification or source for your beliefs, apparently just basing them on what you've heard and what makes sense in your head. The world's more complicated than that.
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    (Original post by Tomharper)
    Taiwan is independent, and has been free of foriegn control since the end of the civil war and also has diplomatic ties with I think 20+ countries.
    More and more are dropping this status in favour of the PRC in return for foreign aid, though.

    (Original post by -1984-)
    I think there's a difference between minor, defenceless states such as Iraq, Afghanistan on the one hand, and China, a bidding future superpower on the other.
    Personally, I think we'd be best to eliminate the threat of China now...

    (Original post by RK89)
    It would not be suicidal to attack China at this point
    The US could easily dominate China in a non-nuclear war. China has nowhere to strike at the US from, while they can base from Okinawa, Guam, Diego Garcia and their carriers.

    The US doesn't need to invade China, simply hit their command and control, strategic weapons, air force bases - eliminate their ability to fight a war.

    (Original post by Tomharper)
    YI mean I would back Taiwan independence if it was the aboriginal Taiwanese people whom wanted it and thier old culture and language back. However, when it is mainland born Taiwan citizens calling for independence I think it is absolute nonsense.
    Taiwan doesn't want independence. To declare independence would be seen as forfiting their claims to the mainland.

    (Original post by DanGrover)
    With the number of people working on making it, and maintaining it, training in it and using it nowadays it couldn't be kept secret, even if they wanted it to be. We all know about the SAS, we all know about the F117, we all know about the SR-71 - all these are meant to be secret.
    Yes they could, they take national security very seriously. And neither the SAS or the F-117 (now retired) are secret any more.
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    (Original post by DenkMit)
    Yes they could, they take national security very seriously. And neither the SAS or the F-117 (now retired) are secret any more.
    BAE Alone employes 110,000 people. Not all these would be working on it, obviously, but BAE isn't the biggest by far. I refuse to believe that in todays world of camera phones and the internet, anything could be kept a secret once it gets to the production/deployment stage, let alone usage and maintenance.

    And yeah, the only reason the SAS and F-117 aren't secret anymore is because everyone knew about them anyway!
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    (Original post by DenkMit)
    Personally, I think we'd be best to eliminate the threat of China now...
    How would the US ever justify such a unilateral attack on the PRC to its own population and the rest of the world?
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    Taiwan doesn't want independence. To declare independence would be seen as forfiting their claims to the mainland.
    Have a look at the DDP and solidarity party of Taiwan and their manifesto as well as muchmuch support they have before you start yapping off.
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    (Original post by Tomharper)
    Have a look at the DDP and solidarity party of Taiwan and their manifesto as well as muchmuch support they have before you start yapping off.
    Here here.

    In the last Taiwanese Presidential and Vice Presidential elections, the Pan-Green (DPP) candidate won re-election by a margin of 0.22% of valid votes over a combined opposition ticket of Nationalist Party Chairman Lien Chan and People First Party Chairman James Soong. So, I would be cautious about arguing either way. There's support for independence, but also a large and growing, nationalist, pro-Chinese stance in Taiwan.
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    (Original post by -1984-)
    Here here.

    In the last Taiwanese Presidential and Vice Presidential elections, the Pan-Green (DPP) candidate won re-election by a margin of 0.22% of valid votes over a combined opposition ticket of Nationalist Party Chairman Lien Chan and People First Party Chairman James Soong. So, I would be cautious about arguing either way. There's support for independence, but also a large and growing, nationalist, pro-Chinese stance in Taiwan.
    Only just. The election was suspect - they won by 30,000 votes, a lot of which were attributed to sympathy votes after an assassination attempt the day before. A controversial assassination attempt...
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    To be fair, uncontroversial assassination attempts are pretty rare.
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    Only just. The election was suspect - they won by 30,000 votes, a lot of which were attributed to sympathy votes after an assassination attempt the day before. A controversial assassination attempt...
    It doesn't matter. The fact results between the Pan blue and Green coalition is so close means independence is strongly backed by many Taiwan citizens.
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    I think that China will take them over before that.
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    The SAR status was initially going to last 100 years after the handover, however it was halved so that negotiations and reforms can be put in place from mid 2030. I think that unless China can increase its rate of rapid economic growth and development (which is already very high) the SAR status is going to be extended.

    Maybe when China becomes a very developed country HK, Macau and maybe even Taiwan will be like Wales in the UK. The territories and province will only retain their separate culture and langauge whilst things like their court system will be replaced.
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    (Original post by Vincente)
    Maybe when China becomes a very developed country HK, Macau and maybe even Taiwan will be like Wales in the UK. The territories and province will only retain their separate culture and langauge whilst things like their court system will be replaced.
    More like if. China will never become as developed as Macau or Hong Kong. Especially not under pseudo-communism.
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    It is forecasted to be moderately developed in 2050, and very developed in 2075. Anyways it doesn't matter whether if China becomes as developed as Macau or HK (although some regions or cities will be) it just needs to reach a certain level of development economically and politically.

    Anyways it isn't hard to catch Macau in terms of development, it is an economic midget. Also from a Hong kongers point of view it is a dump with a few portugese buildings and a few casinos.
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    Macau is a monopoly market that appeals to the gambling culture of the region, I believe. Making gambling legal in HK or China would crush it! But it's developing so much - it changes every time I visit, and not small changes - billion dollar casinos!
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    ^^ But we have the monopoly in horse betting in HK
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    (Original post by Vincente)
    it is an economic midget. Also from a Hong kongers point of view it is a dump with a few portugese buildings and a few casinos.
    what do u mean by its a dump with a few portuguese buildings and a few casinos? I do agree to your point that it is an economic midget. But that doesnt necessarily makes the city a dump, okay??

    you must have been living in the UK for so long that you make yourself so ignorant. As far as I know, loads of you Hong Kongers are coming to find a bloody job in our city (your so-called dump) recently. If HK is that great, I cant really see why you people have to come to our city and beg for a job? :rolleyes:
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    what do u mean by its a dump with a few portuguese buildings and a few casinos? I do agree to your point that it is an economic midget. But that doesnt necessarily makes the city a dump, okay??

    you must have been living in the UK for so long that you make yourself so ignorant. As far as I know, loads of you Hong Kongers are coming to find a bloody job in our city (your so-called dump) recently. If HK is that great, I cant really see why you people have to come to our city and beg for a job?
    To a native Hong Konger (and partially a scot a well) it is a dump end of story.

    What! us Hong Kongers coming to that place for a job?????. Us Hong Kongers only go there to spend our hard earned cash at the casinos, because thats what Macau depends on, tourism from us. If HK had casinos (made illegal by law unfortunately) we wouldn't bother wanting to waste our time coming over there and neither would the mainlanders. It is you Macau people who are flooding to HK trying to get a well paid job in our financial sector and to appreciate our low tax rates. What also makes HK so great, well you accept our currency straight everywhere (no need to exchange) whilst we don't accept yours.
 
 
 
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