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    (Original post by TelAviv)
    We should have a poll on who you think actually controls the militant groups in Iraq/Syria!
    Don't insult Erdogan. Those who support jaysh al fatah / nusra/ ahrar type's get touchy when you start on him.
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    (Original post by Tawheed)

    So i'll be blunt and open about this:

    Do you think, when the dust is all over, Al Nusra, arguably one of the most powerful groups in Syria, with all of their leaders (it is an official alqaeda group) will walk away, and not want some major influence in the new shariah -shurah-government in Syria?
    Possibly, although my question isn't about Sharia as understood by any group.;

    My question is how you would ideally want Syria to be run.


    (Original post by Tawheed)

    What about Ahrar Asham, whose leaders hold a close tie to that of Al Nusra, whose founder was essentially an alqaeda member who had eulogies posted about him after his death , by Al Qaeda ?
    What about them?


    (Original post by Tawheed)

    Do you recognise where i am coming from here ? To stop syria falling into their hands against the will of the majority of syrians, who actually currently live under government control in many areas, i propose a nation-wide election, under strict UN observation, the strictest possible, and for the consensus of syrians to dictate their own future. I don't care if that means a sunni government is formed as a majority. It will be the will of the syrian people.
    So you would prefer a democracy?

    (Original post by Tawheed)

    The fallacy, with due respect, you have made, is assuming Allah azwj approves in even a thousand of the percenth a shariah government with al nusra, ahrar et al leaders.
    I'm not asking you whether you want Sharia implemented by these groups.

    Let's say a group hypothetically implements the Sharia how it should be implemented. Would you support them ?
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    (Original post by Tawheed)
    You're going a bit too extreme sister (with due respect), though you may have a good point on people trying to cause division and slaughter.


    Do you know that John Mcain himself flew to Syria to take picture's with syrian rebels, some of whom were actually later part of Daesh?

    What does the pro-israeli, John Mcain, who voted for the Iraq war, care for the muslims in Syria ?

    What does King Salman of Saudi Arabia, who himself lives in a monarchy dictatorship, care about democracy in syria ?

    They just want people to fight, violence to escalate, and innocent sunni's , shia's, christians etc to all just divide, and cause death and destruction.

    They aren't invading countries anymore sister, they're going underground and funding proxy-wars.
    The great American devil, grrrr :shakecane:
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    (Original post by Al-farhan)
    The great American devil, grrrr :shakecane:
    Brother Farhan, i have not woken up one day and decided 'let's blame american foreign policy'. Infact, many secular websites, secular and world renowned analysts are saying what i am.

    If you study the background of the Syrian conflict, you'll find in an authentic wiki-leaks cable, the US government at the time, of Bush, trying to plan to exploit any weakness in Syria, and to try to use means and avenues to destabilize it.

    Allah states in the Quran for one to produce evidence - or to ask one who makes a claim to produce evidence, and so here is the daleel: https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/0...CUS5399_a.html

    Almost four or five years before the uprising, there were already plans. This is not to say that there was not a legitimate democratic uprising - there was! But it was hijacked, escalated militarily and has gone way out of hand.

    Important Geopolitics:

    Syria is like the golden egg in terms of US middle easy foreign policy. Syria has long been a foe to Israel, a wall and stepping stone blocking them off Iran, and a route to fund the Lebanese resistance as well as training, funding and support for Hamas and palestinian resistance groups. (Consider why Nethanyahu is so supportive of the 'rebels' ? Does he care about freedom and democracy for muslims ? Consider why even alqaeda-linked fighters are treated in Israeli hospitals). Gulf-states are also foes of Syria, and want their own hegemony and geopolitical goals in the ME, and also a way to weaken Iran.
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    (Original post by AlifunArnab)
    Possibly, although my question isn't about Sharia as understood by any group.;

    My question is how you would ideally want Syria to be run.
    By the will of the syrian people. If they want shariah law, then that's their problem, it's their country. This is what i am trying to argue - let the syrians decide how to move forward.

    The issue i have with the kind of shariah law you want in Syria is that i personally see the following, and maybe you can show me (or even affirm) if i am correct here:

    1. We both know the strongest groups, with the most politically savvy, powerful and well connected leaders come from the likes of Jabhat Al Nusra, Ahrar Asham, and their ilk.
    2. These groups have leaders (even if the fighters are not all alligned in that ideology) to Alqaeda or an extreme-type , and secterian. They work very closely together.

    In a shura-style system, would you not be getting the likes of Al Nusra and Ahrar leaders in the prominent roles and positions ? To me, that would be an utter disaster. The ideology of the leaders of these groups is utterly intolerant and will only lead to further bloodshed and destruction of the middle east.

    Furthermore, lets say i'm wrong, at the very least, many of the leaders of these groups are puppets to foreign governments. Ahrar asham for example, to the likes of Qatar, because Qatar is trying to buy influence by funding them. Is that really in the best interests of the syrian people, or the foreign governments ?

    At all angles, i just sincerely and dearly do not believe these groups will ever bring true peace and justice to syria, only tyranny and oppression.

    Assad must go in my eyes, and be replaced by someone else - who is chosen by the syrian people, and not in a shura style election by alqaeda and alqaeda cooperating leaders.
    I'm not asking you whether you want Sharia implemented by these groups.

    Let's say a group hypothetically implements the Sharia how it should be implemented. Would you support them ?
    Depends what group. Is it Muhammed s.a.w, and the pious Sahaba (r.a), or is it Al Nusra, Ahrar Asham, Soqour asham, liwa al haq, jaysh al islam etc?
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    (Original post by Oh Geez)
    At least 80% of people support the regime, I dont see where the issue is. Syria has been a stable and successful country without any issues. Why this urge for Sharia Law. Keep it secular. And who does not wanna have Asma Al Assad as their First LadyAttachment 563084
    Where is your evidence for that statement? How exactly do you get reliable opinion polls in a war stricken dictatorship?

    I wouldn't be surprised if there was majority "support" for Assad, considering many do not want to see Islamist extremist rebels take over. But 80% support sounds ridiculous. The rebels have a lot of support in some areas as well, otherwise there wouldn't be a civil war in the first place.
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    (Original post by TelAviv)
    Who are 'they' though?

    A country?
    An organisation?
    A person?
    It's the Jooooooooooz, obviously. The Jooooooooz are always behind every terror attack/murder/atrocity carried out by 'Muslims'. Everyone knows that. ISIS = Israeli Secret Service. Everyone knows that. All Muslims are perfect wonderful angels, so whenever you read about the latest Islamic atrocity supposedly carried out by 'Muslims', you can guarantee that the Joooooooooz are behind it, trying to make Islam look bad. Cos, y'know, they're so jealous of how perfect and wonderful Islam is and how perfect and wonderful and angelic all Muslims are.

    (Obviously I'm being deeply sarcastic. But sadly, there are people on TSR who think like this.)
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    (Original post by Achaea)
    It's the Jooooooooooz, obviously. The Jooooooooz are always behind every terror attack/murder/atrocity carried out by 'Muslims'. Everyone knows that. ISIS = Israeli Secret Service. Everyone knows that. All Muslims are perfect wonderful angels, so whenever you read about the latest Islamic atrocity supposedly carried out by 'Muslims', you can guarantee that the Joooooooooz are behind it, trying to make Islam look bad. Cos, y'know, they're so jealous of how perfect and wonderful Islam is and how perfect and wonderful and angelic all Muslims are.

    (Obviously I'm being deeply sarcastic. But sadly, there are people on TSR who think like this.)
    I'm usually quite good at baiting them out into admitting who they really think does the radical Islamic terror attacks and runs ISIS (Israel), but it seems they detected me this time
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    (Original post by Tawheed)
    Don't insult Erdogan. Those who support jaysh al fatah / nusra/ ahrar type's get touchy when you start on him.
    Would it be equally fair to say:
    "Don't insult Khamenei. Those who support Assad/Hezbollah/murderous Shia militia get touchy when you start on him"?

    Your post unwisely attempts to discredit legitimate support by an implied link between supporting Erdoğan and these groups when the same could be said about a man you respect (and we both know which side of the Syrian Civil War has more blood on its hands).
    Another interesting point perhaps is that those who you spoke of simply respect Erdoğan; you not only respect Khamenei but also take religious knowledge from him too, which could again imply a lot.

    I expect you to respond saying that you didn't imply all who support Erdoğan support these groups also, however your post leaves little room after being posted for any support of him without this implication being made.
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    (Original post by remiremi)
    religion of peace strikes again
    Boring.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
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    (Original post by Tawheed)
    Tell me more about these 'moderate' 70,000 Cameron said we would support with air-strikes?
    Muslim and moderate?
    What does this mean exactly?
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    (Original post by Tawheed)
    Brother Farhan, i have not woken up one day and decided 'let's blame american foreign policy'. Infact, many secular websites, secular and world renowned analysts are saying what i am.

    If you study the background of the Syrian conflict, you'll find in an authentic wiki-leaks cable, the US government at the time, of Bush, trying to plan to exploit any weakness in Syria, and to try to use means and avenues to destabilize it.

    Allah states in the Quran for one to produce evidence - or to ask one who makes a claim to produce evidence, and so here is the daleel: https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/0...CUS5399_a.html

    Almost four or five years before the uprising, there were already plans. This is not to say that there was not a legitimate democratic uprising - there was! But it was hijacked, escalated militarily and has gone way out of hand.

    Important Geopolitics:

    Syria is like the golden egg in terms of US middle easy foreign policy. Syria has long been a foe to Israel, a wall and stepping stone blocking them off Iran, and a route to fund the Lebanese resistance as well as training, funding and support for Hamas and palestinian resistance groups. (Consider why Nethanyahu is so supportive of the 'rebels' ? Does he care about freedom and democracy for muslims ? Consider why even alqaeda-linked fighters are treated in Israeli hospitals). Gulf-states are also foes of Syria, and want their own hegemony and geopolitical goals in the ME, and also a way to weaken Iran.
    I call baloney on all of that.
    I didn't picture you as a tinfoil hat brigade.
    The US funding AQ, isis..etc
    The US behind the Syrian uprising (how insulting to all those who died to get freedom from a tyrant).
    The fact that you further these conspiracy theories, that the whole world is got it in for iran, hezbollah and the oh so naughty Assaad.
    It shows your clear bias and agenda behind besmearing the call of the syrian people for freedom and to rid their country of the tyrant dynasty.
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    (Original post by Tawheed)
    By the will of the syrian people. If they want shariah law, then that's their problem, it's their country. This is what i am trying to argue - let the syrians decide how to move forward.
    So if the Syrians want to rule with kufr / shirk you would not have a problem with it?

    Just for the record, I'm not interested in discussing whether the groups you've mentioned will implement Sharia properly or not.

    We haven't even reached that part yet. Our discussion is on whether you would like Sharia to be implemented or not. You're entitled to believe the groups won't implement the Sharia properly but you haven't even said you want Sharia in the first place.
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    (Original post by RF_PineMarten)
    Where is your evidence for that statement? How exactly do you get reliable opinion polls in a war stricken dictatorship?

    I wouldn't be surprised if there was majority "support" for Assad, considering many do not want to see Islamist extremist rebels take over. But 80% support sounds ridiculous. The rebels have a lot of support in some areas as well, otherwise there wouldn't be a civil war in the first place.
    [I am not the user who you intended in this reply - but if i may interject]

    I believe a lot of people who 'support' Assad do not like him or truly support him, but you hit the nail on the head when you have said the majority i would argue, maybe 60? maybe 65? i don't know, maybe more, do not want to see alqaeda and alqaeda associated groups, as well as salafist-extremists take over syria, and the leaders of groups like al nusra having prominent positions in their shariah shurah government.

    They hate Assad, they want freedom, but not at the cost of these groups coming into power.

    So you've hit the nail on the head with your analysis.
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    (Original post by IYGB)
    Muslim and moderate?
    What does this mean exactly?
    If you lump all of us muslims into the same boat as the radicals of al nusra, ahrar asham et al, you'll give these groups ammunition to lure people who are victimised and disenfranchised.

    It is better if you don't do that.
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    (Original post by AlifunArnab)
    So if the Syrians want to rule with kufr / shirk you would not have a problem with it?
    No, what i am saying is, it's not my country. The Syrian people should come to an agreement as to how they want to rule their own country.

    Just for the record, I'm not interested in discussing whether the groups you've mentioned will implement Sharia properly or not.
    I think this is unfortunate, because the key and crux of this entire debate lies in the very fact that the very leaders of the groups who would take prominent leadership positions in the sef-styled caliphate, were the syrian arab army , Kurds, and central government to fall are:

    1. Jabhat Al Nusra leaders, very powerful, and official alqaeda affiliates.
    2. Ahrar asham leaders, the founder(s) having close ties with alqaeda, and the current leadership in close association with them.

    The list just goes on. Do you want these people in power ?

    We haven't even reached that part yet. Our discussion is on whether you would like Sharia to be implemented or not. You're entitled to believe the groups won't implement the Sharia properly but you haven't even said you want Sharia in the first place.
    What i would like to happen is not at all relevant. The Syrian people have a right to govern as they wish.
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    (Original post by Tawheed)
    No, what i am saying is, it's not my country. The Syrian people should come to an agreement as to how they want to rule their own country.
    Are you saying that you have no thoughts on how ideally you would like Syria to be run because it isn't your country?


    (Original post by Tawheed)

    I think this is unfortunate, because the key and crux of this entire debate lies in the very fact that the very leaders of the groups who would take prominent leadership positions in the sef-styled caliphate, were the syrian arab army , Kurds, and central government to fall are:

    1. Jabhat Al Nusra leaders, very powerful, and official alqaeda affiliates.
    2. Ahrar asham leaders, the founder(s) having close ties with alqaeda, and the current leadership in close association with them.

    The list just goes on. Do you want these people in power ?
    I disagree. A person could want Sharia but feel that these groups aren't interested in the Sharia / they don't represent the Sharia properly.

    Put it this way, I want the Sharia but I despise ISIS even though they claim to have implemented it as the reality is they have not.


    (Original post by Tawheed)
    What i would like to happen is not at all relevant. The Syrian people have a right to govern as they wish.
    My question was what YOU would ideally want, so yes it's relevant.

    I'm very transparent with you Tawheed whereas you're very evasive. I don't believe I'm asking a difficult question. It's simply a question of personal view.
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    (Original post by TelAviv)
    X
    (Original post by Oh Geez)
    X

    The boy barely looks six, let alone ten.

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    (Original post by Tawheed)
    Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-36835678

    Videos have emerged online that appear to show Syrian rebels taunting and then beheading a boy they say is a captured Palestinian pro-government fighter.One video shows five men posing with the frightened child, who could be as young as 10, in the back of a truck. One of the men grips him by the hair.The same man is later filmed apparently cutting the boy's head off.The incident is reported to have taken place in Handarat, north of Aleppo, where there has been heavy fighting.


    It appears to be an isolated incident which is not endorsed by the rebel authority figures

    Enab Baladi, a pro-opposition news website, said the boy was captured in Handarat by members of a local rebel group, the Nour al-Din al-Zinki Movement.It quoted Yasser Ibrahim Youssef, a member of the group's political bureau, as saying on Facebook that an independent judicial commission had been appointed to investigate the incident. Anyone proven to have been involved in any violations would be referred to military justice, he added.A legal adviser for the Western-backed Free Syrian Army was also cited by Enab Baladi as saying it would hold to account those responsible for such a violation
 
 
 
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