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    (Original post by ihatehannah)
    The flood killed children and innocents as well, not all of them were evil and yet God killed them.
    And if he done nothing, how many innocents would of died in this satanic violent upside down world?
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    (Original post by ihatehannah)
    But if the Bible is the Word of God and the way to salvation, should you not follow it literally and word for word??? Why do you have the right to cherry pick what to follow when God is clearly telling you what to do. So one verse in the Bible can be wrong, so you do not have to follow it and others are not so let's follow that. Most importantly, how can a omni-benevolent God condone slavery, genocide and as I mentioned above- killing someone just for working on sunday.
    sorry but quite a lot of people answered your question perfectly adequately in my opinion and you dont seem to get it -

    two testaments: old and new

    Old testament, = written as a direct instruction to the hebrews, israelites, jewish tribes etc. it is, by haredim, chasadim etc still strictly obeyed today,. dietary restrictions are observed and even the facial hair instructions of Leviticus. They still observe the seventh day - shabbat, saturday and dont work on it etc.

    When Christ came the New Testament followed his life - He was God, according to Christians, on earth in human flesh and everything He did was the perfect demonstration of how a life should be lived. This law of the Gospel superseded all said in the Law of Moses. Jesus made that clear in the book of Matthew when the question of an "eye for an eye" etc was thrown to try and trick him and He replied that he was very aware of the Law of Moses, but He, was now changing the Law.

    Christians follow the New Testament. A lot of Bibles have both testaments for the historical context to understand both natures of God, the God of fear and the God of love but Jews follow the old, Christians the new, its not too complicated.
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    (Original post by ihatehannah)
    Why do you have the right to cherry pick what to follow when God is clearly telling you what to do.
    They have the right to interpret the bible however they want, unless that interpretation leads them to cause harm to others. Its a little thing called freedom of religion. Which often exists as part of a democracy. Have you ever heard of these terms?
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    (Original post by JNDSAN)
    sorry but quite a lot of people answered your question perfectly adequately in my opinion and you dont seem to get it -

    two testaments: old and new

    Old testament, = written as a direct instruction to the hebrews, israelites, jewish tribes etc. it is, by haredim, chasadim etc still strictly obeyed today,. dietary restrictions are observed and even the facial hair instructions of Leviticus. They still observe the seventh day - shabbat, saturday and dont work on it etc.

    When Christ came the New Testament followed his life - He was God, according to Christians, on earth in human flesh and everything He did was the perfect demonstration of how a life should be lived. This law of the Gospel superseded all said in the Law of Moses. Jesus made that clear in the book of Matthew when the question of an "eye for an eye" etc was thrown to try and trick him and He replied that he was very aware of the Law of Moses, but He, was now changing the Law.

    Christians follow the New Testament. A lot of Bibles have both testaments for the historical context to understand both natures of God, the God of fear and the God of love but Jews follow the old, Christians the new, its not too complicated.
    The fact of the matter is many Christians still follow the moral laws of the old testament and God said himself not to disregard it. i.e
    'Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished'. Many other quotes that show Jesus supported the laws of the old testament. But what I am arguing is that how can a book that is called the 'word of god' have slavery, genocide etc etc etc in it.

    Nobody has yet to tell me why the book thought to be the word of God has all these vile things and quite frankly I do not care anymore, believe what you want to believe- but personally I think religion should not exist in the 21st century.
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    (Original post by AngryRedhead)
    The laws of the OT also had another purpose, to show just how high God's standards of sinlessness were and also to show humans could never attain righteousness with God without Christ
    Literal holy ____!!! That is some high-level psychological abuse! :eek:
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    (Original post by TheGreatPumpkin)
    Literal holy ____!!! That is some high-level psychological abuse! :eek:
    How is it? :/

    God is perfect and sinless. We are not, but the Law is not really there to be acted on but rather to show how sinful we are as humans and how much we need Christ. We cannot please God without being perfect hence why we need Christ
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    (Original post by AngryRedhead)
    How is it? :/

    God is perfect and sinless. We are not, but the Law is not really there to be acted on but rather to show how sinful we are as humans and how much we need Christ. We cannot please God without being perfect hence why we need Christ
    instead of actually forgiving the sins of mankind without the need of a scapegoat ( Jesus Christ) , he sends himself on a suicide mission to get himself tortured and then executed in order to forgive the sins of mankind. @ [email protected] And what kind of Omni- benevolent God allows his only son to be tortured and killed when he has the power to stop it.
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    (Original post by AngryRedhead)
    How is it? :/

    God is perfect and sinless. We are not, but the Law is not really there to be acted on but rather to show how sinful we are as humans and how much we need Christ. We cannot please God without being perfect hence why we need Christ
    It just seems to me it's like an adult saying to a child they are insignificant and will never have any sort of positive impact unless they acknowledge how useless they are compared to their parent.
    It seems a little like an ego boost for the adult while potentially destroying the child's self-esteem, and I personally dislike that. Of course, from my perspective god is abstract with no sense of self, so it would be the author of the OT I hold responsible.
    Do you sort of understand?
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    (Original post by ihatehannah)
    instead of actually forgiving the sins of mankind without the need of a scapegoat ( Jesus Christ) , he sends himself on a suicide mission to get himself tortured and then executed in order to forgive the sins of mankind. @ [email protected]
    God cannot forgive sin without the shedding of blood. This is just how He is and He can't change. Do you really think that if there was another way to redeem mankind God would have put himself through what Jesus did in order to save humanity? No, to suggest otherwise would be insulting to God's intelligence. Whats better, that he sacrifice himself once and for all or continue in the inadequate OT system?
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    (Original post by TheGreatPumpkin)
    It just seems to me it's like an adult saying to a child they are insignificant and will never have any sort of positive impact unless they acknowledge how useless they are compared to their parent.
    It seems a little like an ego boost for the adult while potentially destroying the child's self-esteem, and I personally dislike that. Of course, from my perspective god is abstract with no sense of self, so it would be the author of the OT I hold responsible.
    Do you sort of understand?
    Yes and indeed the Bible says that God is a jealous God, such a petty human emotion that even humans get over.
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    (Original post by TheGreatPumpkin)
    It just seems to me it's like an adult saying to a child they are insignificant and will never have any sort of positive impact unless they acknowledge how useless they are compared to their parent.
    It seems a little like an ego boost for the adult while potentially destroying the child's self-esteem, and I personally dislike that. Of course, from my perspective god is abstract with no sense of self, so it would be the author of the OT I hold responsible.
    Do you sort of understand?
    Yes but mankind became sinful of its own choice, not because of anything God did. So God is in essence, saving us from ourselves and the consequences of being sinful. Sin has a negative impact on everyone, not just God, it hurts us and and it hurts other people. All the trouble you see in the world today is because of sin and that is why God hates it and sent Jesus to give us forgiveness from it
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    'For six days, drinking beer and dancing is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a day of sabbath rest to the LORD and go sober for one day!
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    All a myth.
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    Love this thread! I'm learning so much.
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    (Original post by JNDSAN)
    sorry but quite a lot of people answered your question perfectly adequately in my opinion and you dont seem to get it -

    two testaments: old and new

    Old testament, = written as a direct instruction to the hebrews, israelites, jewish tribes etc. it is, by haredim, chasadim etc still strictly obeyed today,. dietary restrictions are observed and even the facial hair instructions of Leviticus. They still observe the seventh day - shabbat, saturday and dont work on it etc.

    When Christ came the New Testament followed his life - He was God, according to Christians, on earth in human flesh and everything He did was the perfect demonstration of how a life should be lived. This law of the Gospel superseded all said in the Law of Moses. Jesus made that clear in the book of Matthew when the question of an "eye for an eye" etc was thrown to try and trick him and He replied that he was very aware of the Law of Moses, but He, was now changing the Law.

    Christians follow the New Testament. A lot of Bibles have both testaments for the historical context to understand both natures of God, the God of fear and the God of love but Jews follow the old, Christians the new, its not too complicated.

    Very good post.

    But I have a question. See,to be honest there's only one thing that I care about with regard to religion.

    As long as religious beliefs dont adversely affect my life then I'm all for them. I genuinely like religious people of all faiths . I think it's quaint that in the 21st century when we all now know there's no such thing as a divine spirit millions of people spend their lives pretending otherwise.

    But my question is relating to this business of not working on a Sunday the OP brought up.

    I'm old enough to have suffered a significant number of utterly boring Sundays because there was no soccer on a Sunday when I was a boy and everything was ******* closed .

    (Really really really ****** me off and at the time made me despise religious people and think they must be the most stupid annoying boring people on Earth)

    And I just want to know if the reason there was nothing to do on a Sunday for 100s of years in this country -and presumably many others-was because of the OT or the NT or for some other reason can someone tell me?

    And IF it was something to do with the OT then ffs why given the previous answers?

    Presumably Jesus ,were he on Earth today,would be watching the Premiership Super Sundays on sky?

    Cheers
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    Okay, this refers to Exodus 35 : 2:

    "Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death."

    This day would be Saturday and not Sunday. And as has been pointed out, only Jewish people treat Saturday as a holy day. For Christians, it's Sunday. In fact, I would counter that the New Testament invalidates this law with a few verses.

    Matthew 12 : 11 :

    "And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?"

    Colossians 2 : 16 :

    "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]."

    If you really want to argue about the morality of Exodus, ask a Jewish person. I'm an Agnostic from a Christian family, but I do read the Bible on a regular basis. If you read the New Testament, you see that the Jewish people were angry with Jesus and wanted to kill him because he healed people on the sabbath day. Given that the person who founded the Christian faith ran afoul of the Jewish law and got himself killed over it, doesn't that seem like a fairly powerful argument that Christians shouldn't necessarily respect those old laws? The whole book is pretty much an indictment of Pharisees and their obsession with legalism, rules, and rituals over actual spirituality.

    I think that when Christ says he's come to fulfill the law, he means the prophecy of the messiah coming to Earth. He doesn't abolish the law, he is the ultimate sacrifice, the lamb of God, for all sins past and future. He takes the consequences of the law that imperfect humans can't fulfill onto himself and pays the price.
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    (Original post by jeremy1988)
    Okay, this refers to Exodus 35 : 2:

    "Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death."

    This day would be Saturday and not Sunday. And as has been pointed out, only Jewish people treat Saturday as a holy day. For Christians, it's Sunday. In fact, I would counter that the New Testament invalidates this law with a few verses.

    Matthew 12 : 11 :

    "And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?"

    Colossians 2 : 16 :

    "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]."

    If you really want to argue about the morality of Exodus, ask a Jewish person. I'm an Agnostic from a Christian family, but I do read the Bible on a regular basis. If you read the New Testament, you see that the Jewish people were angry with Jesus and wanted to kill him because he healed people on the sabbath day. Given that the person who founded the Christian faith ran afoul of the Jewish law and got himself killed over it, doesn't that seem like a fairly powerful argument that Christians shouldn't necessarily respect those old laws? The whole book is pretty much an indictment of Pharisees and their obsession with legalism, rules, and rituals over actual spirituality.
    Sunday Sabbath is a Catholic thing
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    (Original post by ihatehannah)
    The fact of the matter is many Christians still follow the moral laws of the old testament and God said himself not to disregard it. i.e
    'Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished'. Many other quotes that show Jesus supported the laws of the old testament. But what I am arguing is that how can a book that is called the 'word of god' have slavery, genocide etc etc etc in it.

    Nobody has yet to tell me why the book thought to be the word of God has all these vile things and quite frankly I do not care anymore, believe what you want to believe- but personally I think religion should not exist in the 21st century.
    God will somehow manage to cope with your edginess *
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    (Original post by moggis)
    And I just want to know if the reason there was nothing to do on a Sunday for 100s of years in this country -and presumably many others-was because of the OT or the NT or for some other reason can someone tell me?
    I think you are being pedantic in the hope someone bites. We all know religion isn't an exact science. Personally I would go further and state that religion is more about control and the exertion of power by one set of people over another. Aspects of the bible are cherry picked to suit whichever prejudice is in vogue. Try telling Creationists that the Old Testament doesn't count, or someone vehemently opposed to same sex marriage. At this point, the concept of a loving God goes out of the window and anyone who disagrees is a sinner and will burn in hell. And that is the view of a person, not God.

    But my view is live and let live. I am no Christian, but I would be very sad to see Sunday become a normal working day like every other. Being bored on a Sunday is a right of passage for any child. I would be very sad to see Christmas turned into a holiday just like any other. Christianity is part of the heritage of this country, its traditions and its social compass. There is a lot of good to be said and I would happily defend that even if it is based on a book of dubious origin.
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    The Bible is my considered the word of God unlike the Quran.

    Busted.

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