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    (Original post by spencer11111)
    Recently Israel attacked a country (what is that country again? :p: ) in the middle east and caused very severe damages that, according the some agencies, is going to take 10 years to rebuilt. The problem with this is that such level of aggression was unwarranted, and I know many Brits are frankly unhappy that Blair didn't bother to condemn the attacks, because he needed to side with Bush/US, who would protect and support the Jews at every juncture, right or wrong, good or evil.

    Even if you don't have anti-semitic feelings, I guess if there is an aggressor bullying neighbouring states, one would also be pissed right?
    Israel did not attack a country, it was attacked and it acted in self defence and fought a war cleanly and effectively, they ended the threat that Hezbollah posed on them. They showed restraint, they easily could of steam rolled across Lebanon but they didn't.

    If you want to blame someone for the destruction of Lebanon then blame the Syrians and their puppet strings which control Lebanon through fear and violence.
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    (Original post by Agent Smith)
    What? No they don't. A handful of despotic rulers make the choices, including that to remain undemocratic, not the country as a whole.
    True, I was interchanging country and leader their, but the point stands - those countries are still worse and are punished less with the often-made excuse that it's because they are worse. Anyway, what about Russia? That's ostensibly a democracy. It even likes lecturing Europeans and America. And what it did in Chechnya was far far worse than anything Israel has done. I'm not seeing any boycotts.
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    I'd just like to say, could we please be careful about seperating the actions of the UCU, University administrations, the NUS and the individual Student Unions please? These are all seperate bodies that are essentially autonomous in their actions on this issue.
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    (Original post by JonathanH)
    True, I was interchanging country and leader their, but the point stands - those countries are still worse and are punished less with the often-made excuse that it's because they are worse. Anyway, what about Russia? That's ostensibly a democracy. It even likes lecturing Europeans and America. And what it did in Chechnya was far far worse than anything Israel has done. I'm not seeing any boycotts.
    That's because Europeans like something to actually happen when they flick the light switch.
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    (Original post by ChemistBoy)
    I'd just like to say, could we please be careful about seperating the actions of the UCU, University administrations, the NUS and the individual Student Unions please? These are all seperate bodies that are essentially autonomous in their actions on this issue.
    By which you probably mean: "Most Grad Unions are mature enough not to have had anything to do with this ban, so please don't tar us all with the same brush as the Leeds Undergrads."

    :p:
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    (Original post by JonathanH)
    Really? So your line is that no country on Earth is doing ANYTHING as bad as Israel? Because no other country is being boycotted, so Israel must be the worst... right?
    I mean, worse than Sudan's actions in Darfur, worse than Russia in Chechnya (whose conduct, incidentally, makes the Israelis look like pussy-cats), worse than the massive repression and labour camps of North Korea, worse than Mugabe enacting policies that are starving his countrymen to death, worse than Assad, worse than Ahmadinejad, worse than Castro? Because those countries would be boycotted if they were as bad as Israel... right?
    Well, firstly, there's nothing from Darfur to actually boycott, is there? But I get what you're saying. I would assume the reason they boycott Israel is because they think that they can actually change something, given that it is a fairly liberal democracy. It's a capitalist country, and in capitalism most change is brought about my voting and money. If they don't live in Israel, they can't vote, but by boycotting their goods they are demonstrating their displeasure in the only other way that may make them change their minds.

    The other places you mentioned wouldn't pay heed to such measures.
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    (Original post by DanGrover)
    Well, firstly, there's nothing from Darfur to actually boycott, is there?
    Sudanese oil.
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    (Original post by Agent Smith)
    That's because Europeans like something to actually happen when they flick the light switch.
    And the UCU? The NUJ? UNISON? Where are their "principled" boycotts?
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    (Original post by shady lane)
    Sudanese oil.
    What, the acaedmic institutions are going to boycott oil? That wouldn't be too hard for them to do.
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    (Original post by JonathanH)
    And the UCU? The NUJ? UNISON? Where are their "principled" boycotts?
    Don't ask me, I don't belong to any of them. I suppose boycotting Israel is a better way to get attention, though, because it's such a massive source of interest. Though why they'd want this sort of attenion, namely accusations of racism, is beyond me.

    What's NUJ?
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    Yeah they might put back real glasses in the Union bar instead of the plastic ones.

    Health and safety, always the killjoy.
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    (Original post by DanGrover)
    If they don't live in Israel, they can't vote, but by boycotting their goods they are demonstrating their displeasure in the only other way that may make them change their minds.

    The other places you mentioned wouldn't pay heed to such measures.
    You think Israel is listening to the UCU?! In the view of Israel, and the huge majority of Israelis, those picking out Israel for boycotts are as bad as neo-Nazis. If there's any more effective way to stamp out the remainders of the "Peace Now" movement in Israel, I've yet to see it. Israeli defence policy is never ever going to be dictated by a bunch of far-left idiots in a foreign country - and everyone knows that on both sides. All the UCU are doing is pissing off Israel and the British government and large parts of American academia. Apparently they've been taking lessons from the palestinians in how to best **** themselves over.
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    (Original post by Agent Smith)
    Though why they'd want this sort of attenion, namely accusations of racism, is beyond me.
    They're far-left morons?

    (Original post by Agent Smith)
    What's NUJ?
    National Union of Journalists. Though apparently there are attempts to overturn that. Mainly because a lot of journalists have realised it makes them look very very bad when they claim to be impartial on one hand and their union is busily boycotting Israel on the other.
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    (Original post by JonathanH)
    They're far-left morons?
    I don't think that many of them can be.
    National Union of Journalists.
    That's the one. I couldn't think of anything it could be either than Judges or Jews, and the latter somehow didn't quite fit...
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    (Original post by JonathanH)
    Never bought in to that crap. Those countries choose to be undemocratic, it's not like they are just made that way. You're essentially arguing that the worse a country is fundamentally, the less we should take action against it.
    How exactly do you choose to be undemocratic? :confused:
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    (Original post by Soc)
    How exactly do you choose to be undemocratic? :confused:
    In this case, I was using the country as shorthand for the government of that country. You'd know that if you'd actually read the topic, as AS made the same point and I responded explaining what I meant.
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    (Original post by Agent Smith)
    By which you probably mean: "Most Grad Unions are mature enough not to have had anything to do with this ban, so please don't tar us all with the same brush as the Leeds Undergrads."

    :p:
    Well the UCU is not a student union and doesn't represent students at all so their actions cannot be linked in anyway to the actions of bodies that represent students (well, in terms of who mandates such actions). University administrations are obviously a completely seperate thing to.

    When people say things like:

    Except when Manchester uni tries to ban the Jsoc on the grounds that it gives support to Israel.
    What body they are refering to is very unclear, I suspect this was the Manchester SU not the administration of the University (which is what is usually meant when saying that a university did x or y). And the title of the thread is equally confusing.
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    (Original post by JonathanH)
    You think Israel is listening to the UCU?! In the view of Israel, and the huge majority of Israelis, those picking out Israel for boycotts are as bad as neo-Nazis. If there's any more effective way to stamp out the remainders of the "Peace Now" movement in Israel, I've yet to see it. Israeli defence policy is never ever going to be dictated by a bunch of far-left idiots in a foreign country - and everyone knows that on both sides. All the UCU are doing is pissing off Israel and the British government and large parts of American academia. Apparently they've been taking lessons from the palestinians in how to best **** themselves over.
    Interesting rant, but there isn't a UCU boycott so the UCU isn't pissing off anyone.
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    (Original post by DanGrover)
    What, the acaedmic institutions are going to boycott oil? That wouldn't be too hard for them to do.
    My undergraduate university, in response to student protest, divested in all companies that operate in Sudan. Universities have investments for their endowments, remember that. Divestment was most famously used to protest apartheid South Africa.

    http://news-service.stanford.edu/new...st-060905.html

    But this doesn't reflect any hatred/racism towards Sudanese :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by JonathanH)
    When it's the only State in the world targetted for such boycotts, it's hard to push the BS line that it's got nothing to do with it being the one Jewish State.
    Were Israel to practice mass genocide on its own people or an ethnic group (like Saddam Hussein did to the Kurds) then it would be reasonable to impose economic restrictions on it (as was done to Saddam Hussein's Iraq) or boycott it on moral grounds.

    There is, therefore, no necessary link between boycotting Israel and anti-Semitism. It is possible to conceive of a good reason to boycott Israel which has nothing to do with its Jewishness. In fact, this is exactly why they are asking for a boycott: there are moral grounds based on the maltreatment of people within Israel's territories (this is the given argument: its validity is irrelevant - the fact that a political and not racial statement is enough to demonstrate the point).

    Although in practice you are right. Political statement spills over into anti-Semitism. Which is shocking and inexcusable.
    As an additional point, I dont think there is any evidence to suggest that universities are anti-Semitic when it comes to admission. So to suggest they are great big bodies of anti-Semitic hatred is wrong. There is just a certain section of universities whose political passion is misdirected.
 
 
 
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