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Who else thinks Uni is unnecessarily expensive ? Watch

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    (Original post by XxKingSniprxX)
    what does TS & CS mean?

    If the latter happens, we're screwed.
    Terms and conditions. The government under Osborne have already broken their promise to raise the threshold at which you pay back and also done it retrospectively. Bad news indeed.
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    (Original post by Princepieman)
    Ok:
    'Grad' tax

    Student loan repayments aren't optional either lol

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    but you can decide to go uni or not
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    (Original post by Bill_Gates)
    still mate, you're losing like 9% of your income. At 17k that is A LOT. Plus if you want kids, a house, a car you best be earning at least minimum 25k.
    You're not losing a penny at £17k. You could always offset it by avoiding income tax.

    (Original post by ByEeek)
    Terms and conditions. The government under Osborne have already broken their promise to raise the threshold at which you pay back and also done it retrospectively. Bad news indeed.
    I'd be interested to dig out one of my SFE contracts, I'd imagine it'd have a clause that says terms can be changed.

    (Original post by Cap.Henry Avery)
    It cost in England £9000 for a term and that is reportedly set to rise even higher. By the time people are finishing university and starting their career, they are roughly £50,000 in debt, which for a young person is utterly ridiculous. It seems to me businesses are trying to capitalise on people's educations. What do you think?
    It's £9,000 a year not a term. The debt is a completely different type of debt to a commercial loan, most people will never even pay it all back. I would agree that there isn't enough diversification of prices but Oxbridge is extremely good value for money when the price is compared to its nearest competitors internationally.


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    (Original post by Cap.Henry Avery)
    It cost in England £9000 for a term and that is reportedly set to rise even higher. By the time people are finishing university and starting their career, they are roughly £50,000 in debt, which for a young person is utterly ridiculous. It seems to me businesses are trying to capitalise on people's educations. What do you think?
    Unnecessary, Unwanted, and Unimaginable.
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    (Original post by 1010marina)
    Other countries provide uni for £1-3000. I don't see why we get overcharged so much. It's not a good deal. And it's been proven recently that because of the high debt, only the very best paid professions actually provide the graduate premium. For everyone else, paying off their debt means that they get the same money as anyone else.

    Courses that are not academic should not get degrees. Things like art and music should instead be a practical qualification. And things like lab chemistry too etc.
    The key thing is when David Cameron got into power university places where capped meaning that even with good grades universities could only take the best of the best.

    By raising the fees they uncapped these places at no extra cost to the tax payer.

    I dare anyone to go to someone who has a very basic job and ask them if they would want their taxes raised to give you a free ride to uni.
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    The current rules around student finance for student starting September 2016 is this

    Before you pay any money back you have to be earning over £21,000 then you pay 9% of anything over £21,000 so if you earn £21,100 you pay £9 a year back to the student loans company. After 30years it is scrapped and if your earnings go below £21,000 they stop taking the payments

    Also the student loans payments are taken pretax and national insurance.

    Also everyone saying about the finishing returns because of these payments let's look at a very basic example.

    A supermarket till worker gets £7.50 an hour and works 40 hours a week they earn £15,600 a year before tax and national insurance.

    Now at sainsburys, aldi and waitrose (as a fact) to do a managerial position (not a high up one I'm talking manager of say the checkouts) you have to have a degree to even have a chance of being hired in this day and age (obviously some people have done the job/similar before). This pays on average £22,000 to £26,000. This is a fairly crappy salary for a graduate but we're using this example.

    So they get paid £22,000 a year they then pay student loan back £90 for the year.

    They are left with £21,910 before tax and NI
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    (Original post by Kyx)
    Unnecessary, Unwanted, and Unimaginable.
    You know that it's unnecessary because of your detailed understanding of the financial position of universities? Of course a fee isn't wanted by those who have to pay it. Well you don't have to imagine because it's a reality


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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    I'd be interested to dig out one of my SFE contracts, I'd imagine it'd have a clause that says terms can be changed.
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    I'm sure it does. But one has to wonder what the point of a contract is, if one party is allowed to unilaterally change it to suit their own agenda. I know the mobile phone companies were told to stop upping the price of fixed price contracts mid-term.
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    (Original post by 1010marina)
    Courses that are not academic should not get degrees. Things like art and music should instead be a practical qualification. And things like lab chemistry too etc.
    When is Music not academic?!?!?!!

    Have you even met anyone who studies it at Oxford?...

    Such ignorance.
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    (Original post by Princepieman)
    Which is exactly what it is: a tax.

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    It's not a tax since you choose to go to university and if you pay up front you don't pay the ''tax'', equally if you get an equivalent job without going to university you don't pay the ''tax''. Usually your posts are good but this is ridiculous.


    More than anything it's like a mortgage, except it isn't secured against anything, so it's basically just a loan, it is a loan. Lol.
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    I think the system is find and fair how it is.
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    (Original post by ByEeek)
    I'm sure it does. But one has to wonder what the point of a contract is, if one party is allowed to unilaterally change it to suit their own agenda. I know the mobile phone companies were told to stop upping the price of fixed price contracts mid-term.
    But as a private citizen you're likely to be the weaker party in most contracts you enter into, that's just a byproduct of the capitalist market. As much as I can see that morally it is perhaps wrong to alter the terms of a contract after its agreed, you have freedom to choose to enter into the contract and be bound by its terms.

    (Original post by Atlas Thugged)
    It's not a tax since you choose to go to university and if you pay up front you don't pay the ''tax'', equally if you get an equivalent job without going to university you don't pay the ''tax''. Usually your posts are good but this is ridiculous.


    More than anything it's like a mortgage, except it isn't secured against anything, so it's basically just a loan, it is a loan. Lol.
    It's a loan which may never pay back. Imagine if studies suggested such low numbers of people would pay back their mortgage, banks would pretty quickly stop offering them.


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    (Original post by Underscore__)


    It's a loan which may never pay back. Imagine if studies suggested such low numbers of people would pay back their mortgage, banks would pretty quickly stop offering them.


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    The system is extremely generous to students, given that tax payers are subsidising them anyway, they may default and there is no upside risk, it shocks me that people think students are screwed. Even my parents are more pro-students than I am lmao :rofl:
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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    , you have freedom to choose to enter into the contract and be bound by its terms.

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    True, but student loans are by and large a political measure. The government are trying to persuade people to go to uni and loans are the mechanism through which most folks can go. They are repaid through the tax system. This makes them significantly different to a commercial contact. It will be interesting to see what the political and legal fallout is when the government change (and they will) the terms of the loans.
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    (Original post by ByEeek)
    True, but student loans are by and large a political measure. The government are trying to persuade people to go to uni and loans are the mechanism through which most folks can go. They are repaid through the tax system. This makes them significantly different to a commercial contact. It will be interesting to see what the political and legal fallout is when the government change (and they will) the terms of the loans.
    Yes of course it's different to a commercial loan but the fundamentals of contract law still exist. There will undoubtedly be fallout from this but it's kind of the same for a private company.


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    (Original post by Atlas Thugged)
    It's not a tax since you choose to go to university and if you pay up front you don't pay the ''tax'', equally if you get an equivalent job without going to university you don't pay the ''tax''. Usually your posts are good but this is ridiculous.


    More than anything it's like a mortgage, except it isn't secured against anything, so it's basically just a loan, it is a loan. Lol.
    Nah, it is a tax on people who go to university - a grad tax. Even if you go for a year or 6 months, you still have to pay back on the same terms and via the same PAYE system all employed graduates pay through. Just like tax, it has a 'tax free' allowance of £21k but no progressive increases.

    If it were a real loan it wouldn't have the above terms. Even if you were to increase fees to £30k a year and the terms were the same, it wouldn't change most people's financial situation at all.


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    (Original post by Princepieman)
    Nah, it is a tax on people who go to university - a grad tax. Even if you go for a year or 6 months, you still have to pay back on the same terms and via the same PAYE system all employed graduates pay through. Just like tax, it has a 'tax free' allowance of £21k but no progressive increases.

    If it were a real loan it wouldn't have the above terms. Even if you were to increase fees to £30k a year and the terms were the same, it wouldn't change most people's financial situation at all.


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    It has similarities to tax but you don't opt into taxes and they also don't have a defined end date


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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    It has similarities to tax but you don't opt into taxes and they also don't have a defined end date


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    True tbf, taxes don't end but national insurance does so it is similar to that in part.

    It's all just senantics anyway, no one's going to get bankrupt from student loan repayments anytime soon.


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    (Original post by Princepieman)
    True tbf, taxes don't end but national insurance does so it is similar to that in part.

    It's all just senantics anyway, no one's going to get bankrupt from student loan repayments anytime soon.


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    Very true, perhaps students in this country will one day not be such entitled whiners


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