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S19 – Budget Report for Parliament XXIII watch

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    I commend The Financier and indeed the Government on the budget. I'm intrigued by various aspects of this.
    - I agree about STEM and about Mental Health/alcoholism funding and am glad the Govt acknowledges how increased mental health funding should be seen as economic sense
    - Will people not be able to bypass the stamp duty section? Can't my company simply purchase the house?
    - The Christmas bonus isn't necessary? I very much disagree and find the Christmas pay is a necessary safety net.
    - Simplifying the tax system (removing waste) but also effectively a tax cut, with Trident, and increased public expenditure when currently in deficit? How on earth will that create a surplus?
    -As for Health, although not budgetary, what about the spiralling health costs, understaffing, increased locum use and fixed QALY. This doesn't address any of the safe staffing concerns at all. Will the Govt maintain its obligation to keep standards as they are (at increased cost) or will you keep health costs static and reduce spend per QALY (amount of money per person per condition) *
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    I would like to start off by thanking The Financier for all his work put into this, I know it took a lot of effort, and with thanks to the cabinet colleagues who assisted with their departments.

    Let me look specifically at a few points,
    The cutting of foreign aid. We have children going to bed hungry at night because their parents don't have enough money to put food on the table. We have British men and women living homeless on our streets around the country, sometimes through no fault of their own. These people have a poor quality of life, they are not living, they are purely surviving. Rather than give billions away to foreign nations [I will resist calling it bongo bongo land] as the budget says, being wasted, space programmes etc- it should be spent on the men women and children of our nation- Those who need it most. These people are struggling and the 7.8 billion that we will now not waste on foreign aid, I am glad it can be spent on the people of our country- I am proud to be a part of a government who is heading in the right direction with this!

    If you were to listen to the BBC pre and post Brexit you would think economically the world has came to an end. I beg to differ, its far different. I won't launch an attack on the liberalistic BBC- but most certainly, the economy post brexit won't die, but most certainly it will prosper. We have seen trade deals in the early stages with plenty of countries- I think at the last count it was a dozen, and certainly our economy is going to thrive. I hope come the next time we will have to deliver a budget in our house, hopefully not too long- I am confident the budget will be made a lot easier for the government as our economy will be reaping the rewards of brexit, business will boom and the people of our nation will be glad to have voted for freedom from the European Union.

    I want to briefly pick up on one last point- 10 million being spent on our high streets, rejuvenating them. Too often our high streets are left deserted, for a variety of reasons- and ultimately if we can get out local shops back into the high street, and the British people can spent in them, this can help reflate our economy- giving not only the government's fiscal purse a boost, but through the income of these local shopkeepers employing local people, and this income spending cycle continuing- we can see our local economies thriving, and the knock on effect this will have to many other people will be great, and I hope this will be one step to help build our economy strong again, in a dare I say long term economic plan!
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    (Original post by RayApparently)
    Perhaps The Financier has single-handedly saved the government?
    It would be dishonest of me to take all the credit for the work done in this budget. I had input from several members of the government, Tories and Liberals alike, to help with its formulation. This is something that the government as a whole have worked hard on to complete and any credit given shouldn't be for one individual.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    You don't seem to be too good at reading numbers, once again, I invite you to reread the statement

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    You are being blinded by your title, the budget report does not state total managed expenditure for the Ministry of Defence, Department of Education, Department of Health, nor any government department. The budget report does include total managed expenditure for all governmental departments combined but there is no breakdown included when a breakdown should be included.
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    Aye, I must congratulate The Financier on his efforts in turning out an excellent budget.
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    Had a skim of it, my forte is not economics but I'll try and give some critique if there is any to be given, such as on christmas bonuses, and give praise where praise is due, like I did on the Health SoI. Most importantly well done to the financier on getting the budget out and for it looking pretty good.
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    (Original post by The Financier)
    As I said, I believe this is a reasonable budget that most parties regardless of political stance can support. This is not an extreme budget with heavy ideological leanings. We haven't cut everything to the bone or implemented regressive flat taxes. Instead, we're making savings which don't significantly reduce the service people get from the public sector, whilst investing non-insignificant amounts in areas where the public and the economy benefit. I believe this is a common sense, pragmatic approach which should not be considered unreasonable.

    The tax revenues are derived from the latest OBR forecasts, adjusted when appropriate for the proposals in this budget. In the case of projecting future revenues for taxes which don't follow real life policy, we use the expected growth rates for those taxes in the OBR forecasts to predict what it should be like in future. If I had access to the proprietary microsimulation models that the Treasury or IFS use I might be able to forecast more accurately, however for now I believe the methodology is reasonable.

    The £4.5 billion figure is taken from research done by the Taxpayer's alliance (the link's in the spreadsheet). We expect to conduct the abolition of BIS in a similar manner, with the transfer of responsibilities for education and innovation to the Department for Education and support of existing business groups like the CBI, IoD and the Chambers of Commerce to support Business and as such, I think it's reasonable.

    If the member proposes measures that encourage citizens to donate to international charities, I would be happy to look at them but I think it is important that the government does it's own part in prioritising public money on our own citizens. We don't advocate stopping aid full stop and will continue to send billions in value of aid, but it should be up to the public if they wish to donate money to foreign aid causes. That way we ensure it is those who can afford to do so and have chosen to do so that are paying, rather than using funds that could have gone towards helping provide the public services for the poorest in society.
    Sorry, but I've got to say you've left a lot of my concerns unanswered here. I didn't say this was an extreme, ideological or unreasonable budget, but that strawman does not exempt it from any and all criticism.

    I must also echo the statements made by other honourable members and ask you, once more, why you believe a reduction in tax paid by highly successful STEM graduates once they're in their 40s is going to result in more people taking up STEM courses. To me, the inclusion of this token gesture and the lack of response to any questions about it indicates that the Government knows it is failing to do what is necessary to encourage more young people into these courses and career paths and simply wishes to deflect criticism from it with an inexpensive but useless soundbite policy. In reality, the problems are far more complex to solve: hundreds of universities with an unacceptably low quality of teaching, funding cuts reducing available labratory hours, a stunning level of gender stratificaton in the selection of GCSE, A-Level and degree courses meaning many are put off subjects they could succeed in, a lack of NHS training places for nurses and other professions, a stagnating economy with years of low wage growth encouraged by Tory pay cuts to the public sector. It deeply saddens and worries me that the Government continually fails to recognise the severity of the problem and lacks the innovation needed to provide solutions.

    Regarding foreign aid, I deplore the argument that we cannot afford to provide for our own poor, and therefore cannot possibly help others outside the UK, for it is a demonstratable falsehood. Yes, we have a homelessness crisis - but there are ten times as many empty houses as homeless families. Yes, more and more are starving and reliant on foodbanks - but because of benefits cuts not introduced as a fiscal necessity but because George Osborne believes they are "fair". Yes, we still have a huge deficit problem - but that's not because of foreign aid, but because of over six years of utterly failed austerity economics that have pushed a growing economy into stagnation and decline for long periods, failed to bring down expenditure with a host of gimmicks and false economies, and hit living standards for tens of millions of Britons in the process. I will not sit quietly and listen while another Conservative-led government stands and tells me that we cannot afford to help those in need because we have to put our own first, when the Conservatives have never, ever put us before their own political and personal interests. We as an international working class who have a million times more in common with each other than we ever will Osborne, Hammond or May will not be divided and made to fight each other for the meagre pickings you deign to hand out. We will recognise the truth - that poverty is not a necessity but something the Government has chosen to impose on us - and we will keep complaining, and shouting, and fighting, until you do so as well. Because you know what? In my mind, yet another budget that chooses to allow homelessness, starvation and poverty to continue unchallenged is very much an unreasonable, ideological, extremeist budget.
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    The Financier is like you to clarify how you arrived at the conclusion that the abolition of the Department of Business, Innovation and Skills results in the saving of £4.3 billion. You mention economies of scale, but I'd like to know how you have made such a prediction?
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    Oh, just seen the sources used. Will now abstain until alternative sources to the Tax Payers' Alliance are used; an extremely biased pressure group is likely to exaggerate the benefits of all their policy ideas.
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    £4.6 billion saving from abolishing BIS? I appreciate that calculating the saving from an economy of scale is virtually impossible with our resources but you could at least give us a clue as to what those economies are. Are government departments going to start sharing paper clips or something? Also, if you're delivering the majority of it's functions then which are you no longer delivering. The Department and it's partner organisations (like Companies House and Citizens Advice) together employ in the region of 16,000+ people. Will their jobs be protected or are their salaries where you're making your savings?
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    That £1.4 billion figure is very dubious. The government has never outlined any policies for tackling pharmaceutical monopolies and it thinks it's going to suddenly switch 10% to generics in a single year? 1% sure. 2% yeah, why not. 10%??? Sure that's the BGMA estimate but it's still a figure essentially plucked out of thin air until you demonstrate that 10% of the drugs prescribed could actually be replaced that quickly.
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    Scrapping the Christmas Bonus is going to hurt the most impoverished families. The TaxPayer's Alliance might not care much for the less fortunate but even they cite taxation as the reason why the Bonus is so helpful to people - taxation that this government isn't reducing.

    The miscellaneous prison reforms, though a nice idea, are desperately underfunded given that refurbishment alone is though to cost £1.3 billion.

    As has already been extensively explained, the policy to reduce tuition fees just for STEM subjects looks okay on paper but won't work. The government should join the Opposition in creating a fund for needs-based and academic scholarships for university students studying subjects deemed most valuable to the economy, as well as expanding the provision of technical apprenticeships.
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    (Original post by Snufkin)
    I would urge anyone who cares about higher education to vote nay.

    STEM subjects are already subsidised by arts and humanities students. Why should an arts student pay more than a STEM student when the real cost of an arts degree is substantially less than £9,000 anyway? Yes, we need more STEM graduates but there is no evidence that reducing fees for STEM degrees would work.



    Source: https://quarterly.blog.gov.uk/2015/0...eview-of-stem/

    Also see this: https://www.theguardian.com/higher-e...g-tuition-fees
    Arts & crafts?

    You're against this great budget because of ****ing arts & crafts?

    Just get out. Leave.
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    (Original post by Trapping)
    Arts & crafts?

    You're against this great budget because of ****ing arts & crafts?

    Just get out. Leave.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faculty_of_Arts

    :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
    You are being blinded by your title, the budget report does not state total managed expenditure for the Ministry of Defence, Department of Education, Department of Health, nor any government department. The budget report does include total managed expenditure for all governmental departments combined but there is no breakdown included when a breakdown should be included.
    I think it's more you being blinded by your lack of title

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    I think it's more you being blinded by your lack of title

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    We can test this, tell me the total managed expenditure for each individual government department, I shall then use Ctrl F to see if that figure is anywhere in the text, or in the spreadsheet: I think I will win.
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    A rather nice way to say my farewells then.

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    (Original post by Lime-man)
    A rather nice way to say my farewells then.

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    Quitting the MHoC?
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    (Original post by Lime-man)
    A rather nice way to say my farewells then.

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    Wait, you didn't author this one! :awesome:

    You could have told us beforehand but congratulations nevertheless.
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    (Original post by Life_peer)
    Wait, you didn't author this one! :awesome:

    You could have told us beforehand but congratulations nevertheless.
    I meant the ministry for BIS having been rid of.

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