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Owen Jones finally slips the knife into Jeremy Corbyn Watch

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    (Original post by Kyx)
    :backstab:
    That's a bit cultish, don't you think? Jones doesn't owe unquestioning obedience to the Dear Leader, he is allowed to ask serious questions about Corbyn's complete unelectability.

    This is about more than one man; Labour is not supposed to be a personality cult
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    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    Smith has always been on the soft left of the party. You shouldn't be so gullible in believing Momental propaganda claiming he's some kind of Blairite chameleon.
    I'm not claiming he is. I support him. I know he's on the soft left and he is having to appeal to a very left wing base.

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    The thing is, if Corbyn isn't any good, do people think Owen Jones is going to bring anything much in the way of new politics or electoral success? Personally I'd be happy for Corbyn to go, though not for the reasons of the people who hate him, for his own sake. Also because whoever leads Labour is going to have to deal with a massively lost vote, in Scotland and the North, also they are mistaken in thinking low poll ratings or people going to the Tories or UKIP is all Corbyn's fault- this is a total misreading of how many Labour voters badly want Brexit and will vote in a Tory Government or UKIP to make sure it is well and truly sealed.

    All this said I genuinely think Corbyn could massively shock the polls and the Blairites at the next election, he's already defied the media and defied expectation in terms of registration, and unusual things are happening in the world to break with the past and the status quo.
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    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    Smith has always been on the soft left of the party. You shouldn't be so gullible in believing Momental propaganda claiming he's some kind of Blairite chameleon.
    Haha.

    My questions for the people claiming this are:

    a - Why did Corbyn appoint him to the Shadow Cabinet?

    b - Why didn't any of them protest his appointment at the time?
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    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    As for the length, it's called being comprehensive; pointing out why he's not the only democratic socialist in the party, pointing out why he's unelectable, pointing out his corrupt acts and his friendship with homophobic murderers. You seem to be okay with the murder of gay people; I'm not.
    My criticism was that your post was long but nothing was substantiated. You threw lots of accusation without explanation.

    You clearly don't understand Labour politics. It was only a Blairite core of 40 or so MPs (out of 230) he refused to work with him from the start. Most MPs did try to make it work. It was after seeing the utter incompetence of the last 9 months, the complete policy vacuum, the bunker mentality, the lack of leadership, that another 130 MPs decided something had to be done.
    It is difficult to actually find out which ones were actively against him and how many. What is known was that he struggled to gain 35 nominations, and was not even the real choice of all of those. 9 months is hardly time to get used to a new leader, especially one with an different approach. I don't know how you can claim that 'most' MPs did try to make it work, as very few have gone public since the vote of no confidence.
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    (Original post by JamesN88)
    Haha.

    My questions for the people claiming this are:

    a - Why did Corbyn appoint him to the Shadow Cabinet?

    b - Why didn't any of them protest his appointment at the time?
    Precisely. Many of them praised his performance against IDS on tax credits. I find it interesting that they say Corbyn "truly opposes the Tories"; Owen Smith ripped IDS to shreds but when it came to fully using that when IDS resigned, Corbyn said "It's not my job to show how bad the government is" and didn't mention it

    Ultimately it's futile trying to argue logic with these people. You can't reason someone out of a position they haven't been reasoned into; for them Corbyn and the movement fills a deep emotional need. Many of them feel disenfranchised, embittered, perhaps they haven't accomplished anything in their lives, and now they have the opportunity to feel like they are part of what is the psychological equivalent of a gang. They get to feel empowered, they get to say "We are the masters now". I can understand why it appeals to people who are psychologically damaged, uneducated, lacking in accomplishment and so on
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    (Original post by JamesN88)
    My questions for the people claiming this are:

    a - Why did Corbyn appoint him to the Shadow Cabinet?
    When the choice of shadow cabinet members is limited to the dozen or so who haven't made them selves unavailable in protest, you appoint whoever is available.

    The hugely amusing thing about this whole saga is that Labour spent the 1980s trying to get rid on entryists and extreme left-wingers and one stupidly careless bit of rule drafting under Miliband didn't just let them all back in with influence, it sold the party out to them lock, stock and barrel.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    When the choice of shadow cabinet members is limited to the dozen or so who haven't made them selves unavailable in protest, you appoint whoever is available.

    The hugely amusing thing about this whole saga is that Labour spent the 1980s trying to get rid on entryists and extreme left-wingers and one stupidly careless bit of rule drafting under Miliband didn't just let them all back in with influence, it sold the party out to them lock, stock and barrel.
    1) Corbyn won with the none £3 membership.

    2) The rule drafting carried out by milliband was done to kill the left. It was something the right, anti union wing of the party wanted. It was done with the intention to take power away from the unions. I guess they underestimated just how many trots make up the public. :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    1) *I guess they underestimated just how many trots make up the public. :rolleyes:
    About enough to ensure Corbyn is Labour leader yet a minuscule enough number to ensure he never the county's leader.

    What a mess *
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    (Original post by KimKallstrom)
    About enough to ensure Corbyn is Labour leader yet a minuscule enough number to ensure he never the county's leader.

    What a mess *
    Do you think I am a trotskyite? :beard:

    The way it gets used I think it now mean anyone who is to the left of the main body of the PLP (whatever that means).

    Trot is what blairite is to the left. It is devoid of all meaning beyond being a swear word.
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    It's his "mandate" that needs to be challenged as well.

    The PLP have one from 9 million Labour voters not a fringe protest group accounting for less than 1% of the country.
 
 
 
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