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Bashar Al Assad is Syria's only hope. Watch

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    (Original post by john2054)
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    1. I'll give you an example - take the ex leader of the powerful group, jaysh al Islam, who currently shell civilians and carry out chemical weapons attacks, as well as lock women in cages. The ex leaders name is Zahran Alloush:





      Here is a video of him praising Osama Bin Laden:

      ""We saw sheikh Usama Bin Laden - may Allah have mercy on him " [ from 2.15 onwards on the video]


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    You actually thought this out and wrote a small essay...:O
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    (Original post by Tawheed)
    We have to stop supporting gulf state's and governments funding these so-called moderates, who have absolutely no vision of any kind of democracy in syria, and so will not recognise any election whatsoever, and only their own self-styled caliphate.
    you raise some interesting points

    a few remarks:

    -you seem to subscribe to elections and parliamentary democracy as the best system for the organisation of society. However, it is difficult to reconcile this vision with traditional Islamic doctrine : if society has to be organised according to Allah's law, what would happen if , in an "Islamic State", a majority, following "democratic elections", decides to infringe it ? what should Muslims do, in such a situation ? respect "democratic decisions" ?

    -elections and parliamentary democracy are a system which evolved in a specific environment, namely Western European Christian and post-Christian secular States. Attempts to export it have had very, very mixed results

    -democratic elections imply the idea that people will vote and switch allegiances on the basis of ideas and programmes, not on the basis of ethnic or religious identity. Where there is no feeling of a common citizenship or identity, political parties will be based on ethnicity or religion, and elections could in fact simply be replaced by national censuses, since people will simply vote according to their ethnic, tribal, religious identity. Debate of ideas will therefore be replaced by demography

    -exporting parliamentary democracy in countries where ethnic/religious identity is the basis of social life has resulted in innumerable civil wars, notably in Africa and Asia (but also in Europe : e.g. in former Yugoslavia, Ukraine, Ireland - why, even the Swiss had a religiously-based civil war in 1846 ). Even where power was carefully apportioned between the various communities (e.g. Lebanon) this has resulted in an unstable system and bloody civil wars

    So, what is the solution ? quite simply, I don't know.

    I suppose that each country will have to work out its own solution : and this, unfortunately, will mean years and years of bloodshed, since the international community is not strong enough to ensure a stable environment, if citizens themselves are not able to do it

    best
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    (Original post by Sycatonne23)
    HOWEVER, this is not an ideal world. Realpolitik dictates that currently our interests in the West (not the interests of a narrow circle of belligerent establishment interventionist hawks) and the interests of the Syrian people are best served by Assad defeating all non-government militants in Syria (excluding perhaps the Kurds if they are willing to cooperate with the government of Syria)
    What do you mean by "co-operate"? The Syrian government has long discriminated against Kurds, and even denied them citizenship until the uprising when citizenship was granted in an attempt to keep them quiet (it had been stripped back in the 60s when the Baathists came to power). The Kurds and Assad are very clearly enemies.

    The YPG and allies have a better human rights record than any other faction in Syria, and that includes the Syrian government. So I would hope by "co-operation" you don't mean subjugation and forced surrender to the government.
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    (Original post by RF_PineMarten)
    What do you mean by "co-operate"? The Syrian government has long discriminated against Kurds, and even denied them citizenship until the uprising when citizenship was granted in an attempt to keep them quiet (it had been stripped back in the 60s when the Baathists came to power). The Kurds and Assad are very clearly enemies.

    The YPG and allies have a better human rights record than any other faction in Syria, and that includes the Syrian government. So I would hope by "co-operation" you don't mean subjugation and forced surrender to the government.
    I say the Kurds should have a right to come to the negotiating table and be able to partake in a democracy.Many Kurds truly dislike Assad, no doubt, but they see alqaeda and their associates as a greater evil. Nevermind the fact the Kurds are seen as traitors by the 'moderate' rebels.
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    (Original post by Tawheed)
    I say the Kurds should have a right to come to the negotiating table and be able to partake in a democracy.Many Kurds truly dislike Assad, no doubt, but they see alqaeda and their associates as a greater evil. Nevermind the fact the Kurds are seen as traitors by the 'moderate' rebels.
    They are traitors though. They've backstabbed the rebels several times, with the most recent helping the regime to besiege East Aleppo.
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    (Original post by AlifunArnab)
    They are traitors though. They've backstabbed the rebels several times, with the most recent helping the regime to besiege East Aleppo.
    I'm sure they didn't mean it. Simple misunderstanding. Once the Kurds realise they might've caused a siege upon 300,000 muslims, I'm sure they'll back off. They've only been carrying on this sort of behavior for almost a year, I'm sure they'll realise their error any day now :yes:
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    (Original post by IdeasForLife)
    I'm sure they didn't mean it. Simple misunderstanding. Once the Kurds realise they might've caused a siege upon 300,000 muslims, I'm sure they'll back off. They've only been carrying on this sort of behavior for almost a year, I'm sure they'll realise their error any day now :yes:
    Pshtt, the communist Kurds are obviously the good guys. Do you really think they'll help the regime besiege 300,000 people?

    They don't even hurt flies, let alone helping the regime. All they want is a Kurdish state which they plan to achieve by displacing Arab civilians living in their areas.
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    (Original post by AlifunArnab)
    Pshtt, the communist Kurds are obviously the good guys. Do you really think they'll help the regime besiege 300,000 people?

    They don't even hurt flies, let alone helping the regime. All they want is a Kurdish state which they plan to achieve by displacing Arab civilians living in their areas.
    I've heard they don't even fight for territory. Not a single bullet has been used by them. They offer free schwarmas for everyone and people just give them land.

    In other news, those pesky rebels have been blowing up barrels of food which are dropped by Assad and Russian helicopters (on a daily basis)
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    (Original post by IdeasForLife)
    I've heard they don't even fight for territory. Not a single bullet has been used by them. They offer free schwarmas for everyone and people just give them land.

    In other news, those pesky rebels have been blowing up barrels of food which are dropped by Assad and Russian helicopters (on a daily basis)
    Who could resist giving up land for a shawarma? It's a great strategy by great people. The US love their food so much that they're interested in investing in the Kurds.

    Don't these terrorist fundamentalist Islamist Jihadist radical scary rebels know that Bashar loves them and all he wants is for the civilians in their area to eat. Bashar cries at night knowing that civilians aren't being fed and these rebels make it even more difficult.

    I have however heard that the rebels send humanitarian trucks to regime army bases as a good token gesture. I'm not quite sure what it is they send but it seems effective.
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    In retrospective it would have been less bloody to leave Al Assad in power. However it seems a bit too late now.
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    (Original post by AlifunArnab)
    They are traitors though. They've backstabbed the rebels several times, with the most recent helping the regime to besiege East Aleppo.
    You're forgetting that the majority of Allepo does not support Jabhat Al Nusra, Ahrar Asham, and groups cooperating with them. It was indeed, the so-called 'moderate' rebels who were the primary causers of the siege.

    This is what i find too disingenuous. Let's call a spade a spade here.

    Jabhat al Nusra have been the official alqaeda affiliate, have preached alqaeda ideology, and have been one of the most powerful groups in Syria, working closely with ahrar asham - a group that was founded by an alqaeda member, and who until 2013, had worked with the likes of Daesh before they split from them.

    Do you propose that one allows al nusra, ahrar et al to grow, get more powerful, spread, continue to shell the majority of allepo, and invade there ?

    Why do you think the Kurds, who absolutely loathe Assad, have helped him? Because, many people, including the majority of allepo, including large sunni populations, kurds, christians, alawi's, recognise that the greater evil here is a shurah-shariah caliphate of the leaders from al nusra, ahrar et al.
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    I'm sure the siege in Allepo, despite food parcels dropped and humanitarian corridors opened (and blocked might i add by 'rebels'), had nothing to do with trying to stop the growth of jabhat al nusra, which has been the official alqaeda affiliate, ahrar asham , founded by alqaeda member(s) and once worked with daesh, before splitting in 2013?

    I suppose anyone who tries to look at the bigger picture, and recognises that they are at complete odds with these groups is ofcourse, an assadist, barrel bomber ?

    The false dichotomy that has been created here is that you either support Assad, or you support Al Nusra, Ahrar, and 'rebels'.

    Lets all wait until Yawm Al Qiyamah.
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    (Original post by Tawheed)
    You're forgetting that the majority of Allepo does not support Jabhat Al Nusra, Ahrar Asham, and groups cooperating with them. It was indeed, the so-called 'moderate' rebels who were the primary causers of the siege.

    This is what i find too disingenuous. Let's call a spade a spade here.

    Jabhat al Nusra have been the official alqaeda affiliate, have preached alqaeda ideology, and have been one of the most powerful groups in Syria, working closely with ahrar asham - a group that was founded by an alqaeda member, and who until 2013, had worked with the likes of Daesh before they split from them.

    Do you propose that one allows al nusra, ahrar et al to grow, get more powerful, spread, continue to shell the majority of allepo, and invade there ?

    Why do you think the Kurds, who absolutely loathe Assad, have helped him? Because, many people, including the majority of allepo, including large sunni populations, kurds, christians, alawi's, recognise that the greater evil here is a shurah-shariah caliphate of the leaders from al nusra, ahrar et al.

    If you mean West Aleppo then yes, the population there do not like the groups you've mentioned because they fear being attacked.

    However, if you look at the rest of Aleppo, the rebels are established there.

    What I propose is irrelevant. Jaysh al Fath + FSA took on the regime / Iran / Russia / Hezbullah and defeated them. If they continue to advance in Aleppo then perhaps it's the fault of the regime for trying to besiege them in the first place?

    Also, please don't just say Kurds as whilst the Kurds may have been oppressed by Assad in the past, the PYD have NOT fought Bashar. They've had skirmishes and clashes but that's about it.
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    (Original post by Tawheed)
    I'm sure the siege in Allepo, despite food parcels dropped and humanitarian corridors opened (and blocked might i add by 'rebels', had nothing to do with trying to stop the growth of jabhat al nusra, which has been the official alqaeda affiliate, ahrar asham , founded by alqaeda member(s) and once worked with daesh, before splitting in 2013?

    I suppose anyone who tries to look at the bigger picture, and recognises that they are at complete odds with these groups is ofcourse, an assadist, barrel bomber ?

    The false dichotomy that has been created here is that you either support Assad, or you support Al Nusra, Ahrar, and 'rebels'.

    Lets all wait until Yawm Al Qiyamah.

    Looool.

    The rebels have opened a bigger humanitarian corridor so all is well.

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    If Syria's only hope is an individual who has used WMDs against his own people then Syria is officially screwed; just perhaps not quite as screwed as it would be if Da'esh ran the country.
 
 
 
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