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    And what? Make it more difficult for Muslim women to do things normal French people do and integrate? So you can complain how they don't mix with everybody else and integrate?


    It's sad how it's Muslim women who have to deal with this discrimination, by the very people who claim to want to save them from "oppression" :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by remiremi)
    It's estimated around 150 women all over the EU are murdered in honour killings every year (we get 10-15 alone in England every 12 months), mostly over stuff like what they decide to wear or who they decide to date.

    I don't really think it's getting silly, European governments have got to combat this kind of violence in families somehow.

    Banning full body Burkas and telling Islamic community here that it's not acceptable in the west is just one such fix.
    This is in no way a fix, it's infringing on people's rights to wear whatever they want. Like I said, what if someone wanted to wear one for other reasons that are completely unrelated to religion?
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    (Original post by mercuryman)
    We've discussed this in ISOC.
    There are a few Hadiths that hint the niqab. (Yes, this isn't even in the Quran)

    But nothing supports the burka though. There is no evidence for it whatsoever. That practically looks like a Harry potter costume.
    I know we have.
    Something not being in the Qur'an does not devalue it. Some use Quranic verses in conjunction with hadith.

    With all due respect, you are too hasty to name call and insult. Is there really any need to demean these Muslim women? I've seen islamaphobes diss Muslim women in a similar way "they look like a dementor" etc...

    Prove what they're doing is wrong islamically.
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    (Original post by Trapz99)
    Ban the burkini/burqa. It's absolutely ridiculous for me not to even be able to identify who's who. What's if it's a male terrorist or a robber under there? Faces should be visible at all times.
    I think you're a bit misinformed.

    A burkini looks like this:
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    Yeah... It's so hard to see her face right?
    A burka on the otherhand...
    No comment.
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    (Original post by Nadile)
    what if someone wanted to wear one for other reasons that are completely unrelated to religion?
    How many people do you see wearing Burkas that are not Muslim women coming from Islamist backgrounds?

    your logic is flawed when you realize the reality for these women wearing them, as I mentioned earlier they have no "choice" here in the first place. They face the Burqa or being exiled from the family unit
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    It's a shame as we seem to be forgetting we are supposed to be better then they are.
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    (Original post by remiremi)
    Good, full body Burka type outfits are only worn in Syria/Iran/Iraq and the liberal west by a minority of hardcore Muslims. In some women are not even allowed to swim on their own on risk of being arrested.

    Maybe this will give french Muslim families/husbands the hint to let their daughters/wives wear what they want in public.

    Not what their religious cult demands them
    :lolwut: this isn't a case of abusive relationships, people are allowed to wear "burkinis" regardless of religion/creed/whatever. It's a garment which had the sole purpose of being a full body swimsuit. Women/men can choose to wear it as they please.

    It's more ludicrous that you think this is the result of cracking down on abusive relationships, when factually it's due to religious and cultural intolerance by the French government.

    There's nothing particularly freeing about this decision, rather ironically it places more restrictions on freedom to wear what you please.

    Still smh at your comment. What has this place become. :pierre:
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    I'm not hugely on board with the state dictating what people may and may not wear, but I do respect the French for being willing to set down rules about what they see as compatible and incompatible with their culture, particularly in the light of all the attacks recently.
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    (Original post by remiremi)
    How many people do you see wearing Burkas that are not Muslim women coming from Islamist backgrounds?

    your logic is flawed when you realize the reality for these women wearing them, as I mentioned earlier they have no "choice" here in the first place. They face the Burqa or being exiled from the family unit
    I take it you're the spokesperson for Muslim women all around the world?

    I take it you've interviewed a countless number of Muslims?

    Oh wait you're just speaking through uneducated assumptions and hyperbole..
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    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    I'm not hugely on board with the state dictating what people may and may not wear, but I do respect the French for being willing to set down rules about what they see as compatible and incompatible with their culture, particularly in the light of all the attacks recently.
    So the French attacks were a result of Muslims or Islamic culture? And not at all related to French foreign policy?
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    (Original post by IdeasForLife)
    I know we have.
    Something not being in the Qur'an does not devalue it. Some use Quranic verses in conjunction with hadith.

    With all due respect, you are too hasty to name call and insult. Is there really any need to demean these Muslim women? I've seen islamaphobes diss Muslim women in a similar way "they look like a dementor" etc...

    Prove what they're doing is wrong islamically.
    I can't find any valid proof of it being praised by any valid hadith or quranic verses alike.

    Without even thinking about it, just tell me: Do you agree with the way the muslim woman was dressed in the last picture I quoted to you? Because that's what a burqa is.
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    (Original post by getfunky!)
    So the French attacks were a result of Muslims or Islamic culture? And not at all related to French foreign policy?
    You can think that or not. I didn't comment on the matter.
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    (Original post by getfunky!)
    So the French attacks were a result of Muslims or Islamic culture? And not at all related to French foreign policy?
    and cartoons. Don't forget about the cartoons.
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    (Original post by getfunky!)
    So the French attacks were a result of Muslims or Islamic culture? And not at all related to French foreign policy?
    So what you're saying is, "don't upset Muslims otherwise they'll kill you!" Get real, why should France change its Foreign Policy just to avoid terrorist attacks? That would be surrendering and cowardess and letting the terrorists win.
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    No issue here at all
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    (Original post by mercuryman)
    I can't find any valid proof of it being praised by any valid hadith or quranic verses alike.

    Without even thinking about it, just tell me: Do you agree with the way the muslim woman was dressed in the last picture I quoted to you? Because that's what a burqa is.
    How long did you take to research this issue? A few minutes online?

    Do you really think it is wise to make fun of these women if you don't even know whether it's allowed or not?

    Yes I'm completely fine with that.
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    Why is anyone surprised that the French are cracking down on symbols associated with the ideology that has been attacking its people for the past twelve months? The "burkini" is associated with conservative Islam, an offshoot of which is Islamist extremism.

    This is a disproportionate measure, but against the background I have mentioned it is hardly surprising.
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    (Original post by IdeasForLife)
    How long did you take to research this issue? A few minutes online?
    (Original post by IdeasForLife)
    Do you really think it is wise to make fun of these women if you don't even know whether it's allowed or not?
    I've researched this topic countless times. There is no authentic hadith which supports the idea of women fully covering their face. It's not wise to mock them, you're right, but it's not wise to advocate such extremities on women either. Especially when some males in certain countries actually enforce this.


    (Original post by IdeasForLife)
    Yes I'm completely fine with that.

    Fair enough that you don't mind burkas. That's your opinion. Personally I do not think it's right to even advise women to wear it.
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    And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons… or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments.

    (Quran, Súra Núr, 24:30) requires both sexes to ‘lower their gaze’. In order to follow this requirement, the face and especially the eyes must be visible. As there is no comparable juristic ruling that men should cover their faces, it is paternalistic to interpret it to apply solely to women.

    What is modest should be determined in keeping with what others in the society wear and this will change over time, according to place, and also according to cultural practices and the tasks women perform.

    We should really refute that the onus should rest on women alone to curb male desire, and stress that men should develop self-control. - supported by an authentic hadith.

    If men and women have equal obligations to submit to God, and ‘to guard their modesty’ it cannot be only women who are expected to manifest this dedication outwardly in the form of covering their entire face.
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    (Original post by mercuryman)
    [font=Arial]

    I've researched this topic countless times. There is no authentic hadith which supports the idea of women fully covering their face.



    Fair enough you don't mind burkas. That's your opinion. Personally I think it looks ridiculous and is contradictory with quranic statements.
    Spoiler:
    Show
    24:31

    And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons… or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments.

    (Quran, Súra Núr, 24:30) requires both sexes to ‘lower their gaze’. In order to follow this requirement, the face and especially the eyes must be visible. As there is no comparable juristic ruling that men should cover their faces, it is paternalistic to interpret it to apply solely to women.

    What is modest should be determined in keeping with what others in the society wear and this will change over time, according to place, and also according to cultural practices and the tasks women perform.

    We should really refute that the onus should rest on women alone to curb male desire, and stress that men should develop self-control.

    If men and women have equal obligations to submit to God, and ‘to guard their modesty’ it cannot be only women who are expected to manifest this dedication outwardly in the form of covering their entire face.
    How in dept was your study? I've seen scholars say covering the face fully is fine. So who am I to believe, people who've studied their entire lives or a teenager who's googled a few times?

    You're copy pasting from modernists who don't even believe in head covering. I don't think those people have a clue. I hope you're not now also going to argue that the head covering isn't islamic?

    They're not there to look good to you. I would have some respect for women who go out of their way to follow Allah's commands. All the islamaphobes attack them, verbally and physically, it's a real shame to see fellow Muslims joining in on the attack.
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    (Original post by Ribbit1234)
    It won't work so the French president can go f himself. They banned the burka too, but subhanallah, praise be to God, it didn't stop Muslim women from wearing it. Bless the French Muslim sisters in France x
    Shake my head
 
 
 
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