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Is a male feminist more likely to date a more masculine woman? Watch

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    (Original post by RayApparently)
    The pay gap is real. There are still prevalent stereotypes that make young women feel that certain careers and environments aren't for them. If they end up earning less because of that then it's still a pay gap. I consider that to be a difference in opportunity because you don't just need the door to be open, you need to believe that you can go through it.
    Even with that at play, young women (i.e. under 40) STILL manage to earn more than men do per hour across all jobs. The pay gap is entirely contributed to by women older than 40, the oldest of whom, let's not forget, will have entered the job market when the Equal Pay Act itself was but a twinkle in Barbara Castle's eye. Having been held back in their early career paths by sexism, their CVs are too weak to promote them to executive levels and they are a lost cause.

    The main driver of young women's higher pay, even though they do not go into the higher paying industries as much as men, is their greater and more successful participation in higher education. That began in the mid-1990s (hence the under 40 stat), when the first women who took GCSEs with a heavy coursework component filtered through, and that into a working environment 20 years out from equal pay which had become amenable to women. The secondary curriculum has thus been grotesquely and deliberately biased towards women, presumably as a quick medium-term fix for a number of equality of outcome metrics that became fashionable in the 1980s.

    Although I would say your statement holds overall, note that among the professions there are more women in medicine and law, equal in accountancy; male dominance is restricted to engineering and IT. You are misrepresenting.

    There are laws against sexual harassment and yet it's still pervasive and widespread. Feminism draws attention to it because you need a cultural change as well as a legal one.
    This is correct although feminists/women do not understand harassers - and we need to understand them to combat them. They do it to intimidate, the same way as a weedy looking man I have been shouted at and intimidated in the street before. The sexual angle is only a superficial framing device. Gender does come into it in that women are seen as a "target class", whereas an aggressor can never be quite sure that a man can't fight back.

    You're asking me how many Labour leaders have been women? Is that supposed to be some kind of cheap dig? How many did the Liberals have? 43% of Labour MPs are women (not that this is in any way relevant). All-women shortlists have been conclusively proven to put worthy, deserving candidates into the House. The fact that these people might not have got in otherwise shows gender discrimination.
    I suspect that is more because it doesn't take much to perform well as an MP. I suspect what AWS really means in this regard is less need to know the right people, so sincere MPs not so corrupted by the party cliques are elevated and actually do the work.

    Below, with my apologies, is a digression on my recent experience with Labour's gender meddling.

    Having recently voted in the NEC election I was very unhappy that I was required to vote for three women out of six. What if they were all useless or horrible Blairites? But I was totally appalled that I was not required to vote for three men out of six. A vote for three women, or even six women, and no men would have fulfilled the criterion, but of course not the other way round.

    Luckily, after weighing up the candidates on merit and not on the basis of any essential characteristics, it so happened that I had three women. But if there is anything that makes me want to defect from Labour it is this kind of nonsense.

    Under this system if all candidates are equal you would expect 4.5 women and 1.5 men to be elected - and that's if everyone used all six votes.

    Lo and behold, although there were 8 men and 7 women in the contest (although maybe we can count Mx Eddie Izzard as half of each?) 4 women and 2 men were returned. The bottom five places were all taken by men and the top three all by women. Women received 57.6% of the vote (8.2% per woman), men 42.4% (5.3% per man). The mean rank for women was 5.29, for men 10.38.

    I know it's true that at least two of the men were hard Blairites and another totally useless, but still.
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    (Original post by inhuman)
    If it makes you happy to come on here and cry about how terrible society and in particular the justice system is treating men, saying men are victims, and then tell others not to to "play the victim". If that's your thing, go for it.

    But it shows anyone with half a brain and not blinded by bias, that you are full of it.
    You must be referring to a post I made, taken out of context by the looks of it, that wasn't in response to you or any user in particular. Do you always resort to personal attacks when someone here is choosing not to engage with you and giving you the replies you expect? :holmes:
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    (Original post by Final Fantasy)
    Not gonna bother addressing this, you're free to search for the counter arguments elsewhere. It appears you don't seem to understand legal statistics, charges, convictions, rates etc.
    ...

    Again with these statistics, you aren't the first to repeat this BS without understanding the fallacies behind it, nor will you be the last.
    (Original post by Final Fantasy)
    Is this a circle game now? Re-read my initial response again. I haven't presumed anything, looks like I said something along the lines of 'it appears... seems'. Though you might have gotten hurt about calling BS.
    What?? If you wanna call whatever you're doing the circle game, by all means. Think the evidence above speaks for itself so don't be acting like I'm crazy and seeing things that you didn't write. Gaslighting someone really only works if the proof doesn't exist which shows they aren't lying or seeing things 🙄
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    (Original post by Final Fantasy)
    You must be referring to a post I made, taken out of context by the looks of it, that wasn't in response to you or any user in particular. Do you always resort to personal attacks when someone here is choosing not to engage with you and giving you the replies you expect? :holmes:
    I see, you are one of those people that dodges points, lies, evades, and accuses others of the very same things you do yourself.

    What a stellar representative for TSR you are.
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    (Original post by ~Tara~)
    What?? If you wanna call whatever you're doing the circle game, by all means. Think the evidence above speaks for itself so don't be acting like I'm crazy and seeing things that you didn't write. Gaslighting someone really only works if the proof doesn't exist which shows they aren't lying or seeing things 🙄
    Umm... okay. It doesn't really speak for itself when you edit it and don't include all the other associated posts. I don't think you're crazy nor have I called you this. Don't recall 'gaslighting' you either.

    Why are you trying so hard to start an argument? It's not gonna work and will only be one-sided from you, that's pretty much the direction it's going.

    (Original post by inhuman)
    I see, you are one of those people that dodges points, lies, evades, and accuses others of the very same things you do yourself.

    What a stellar representative for TSR you are.
    Not really, I just don't bother with arguments for the most part, nowadays. I guess it does infuriate people sometimes, but honestly - it's just too tiresome and I find that experiences over time change minds more than words.

    Thank you... I try my best in helping others - feel free to reach out if you need help and advice with careers, jobs or anything related to IT and technology etc. I can help with particular mental health issues too, or just listen - but it's not what I specialise in. Your personal views and opinions are your own and isn't something I get biased towards/against, I'll help either way, being completely impartial.
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    (Original post by Final Fantasy)
    Not really, I just don't bother with arguments for the most part, nowadays. I guess it does infuriate people sometimes, but honestly - it's just too tiresome and I find that experiences over time change minds more than words.

    Thank you... I try my best in helping others - feel free to reach out if you need help and advice with careers, jobs or anything related to IT and technology etc. I can help with particular mental health issues too, or just listen - but it's not what I specialise in. Your personal views and opinions are your own and isn't something I get biased towards/against, I'll help either way.
    So kind of you, would never have thought.
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    (Original post by inhuman)
    So kind of you, would never have thought.
    Never know until you try. Being serious there though, even if your statement might have been said in jest. Anyway, that's off-topic - you can always PM or post in the relevant forum though (Careers, in my example).
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    (Original post by Final Fantasy)
    Umm... okay. It doesn't really speak for itself when you edit it and don't include all the other associated posts. I don't think you're crazy nor have I called you this. Don't recall 'gaslighting' you either.

    Why are you trying so hard to start an argument? It's not gonna work and will only be one-sided from you, that's pretty much the direction it's going.



    Not really, I just don't bother with arguments for the most part, nowadays. I guess it does infuriate people sometimes, but honestly - it's just too tiresome and I find that experiences over time change minds more than words.

    Thank you... I try my best in helping others - feel free to reach out if you need help and advice with careers, jobs or anything related to IT and technology etc. I can help with particular mental health issues too, or just listen - but it's not what I specialise in. Your personal views and opinions are your own and isn't something I get biased towards/against, I'll help either way, being completely impartial.
    I sincerely doubt your comment about the patriarchy being edited out really changed the context so much so that now my point is proven in a way that it wasn't before.

    I'll leave the irrelevant conversation you're having with someone else. Wouldn't want your comments to me to be taken out of context again
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    (Original post by ~Tara~)
    I sincerely doubt your comment about the patriarchy being edited out really changed the context so much so that now my point is proven in a way that it wasn't before.

    I'll leave the irrelevant conversation you're having with someone else. Wouldn't want your comments to me to be taken out of context again
    Err... is there anything else? All cool?
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    You may disperse now, thanks for asking. No need to tag me to your exit, I shall cope with just knowing it could happen
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    I'm just curious as the guy I like identifies as a male feminist. It's not a criteria of mine or anything for a potential date to be a male feminist, in fact I'm not even feminist myself so I could not care less either way I just think he seems like a sweet person overall, which is what attracted me.

    Anyhow, I'm very feminine in terms of appearance, dress sense and personality traits but he does not seem excited by that at all, if anything intimidated - but not in a good way.

    I was raised with strong family ties and quite traditional values and he seems almost repulsed by. He has no father figure and has very liberal views on family and relationships.

    The girls who he does notice are the ones who are quite butch in body type and appearance who are very outspoken (especially on feminist issues), blunt, competitive, domineering and who drink and sleep around like 'one of the guys'.

    Perhaps I am narrow minded but I really can't wrap my head around it. What are your thoughts?
    I think you're confusing a male feminist (i.e. respects women's rights) with someone who just isn't attracted to female characteristics. I don't understand how this dude claims to be a male feminist when he basically wants a masculine woman. That's not feminist, that's gay. What you've got there is someone who is sexually confused (probably because of lack of a father figure) and has basically got no chance with "competitive, domineering" girls who sleep around. Classic beta male doormat. I don't know why you're even entertaining the idea of going with him - he sounds like a loser.
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    There are stereotypes about everyone, if the door is open and they don't go through it then they can only blame themselves, there are 2 threads recently on this forum where people have tried to talk males out of going into their chosen career paths but they took the path as they were committed. The opportunity is there for everyone if they do not have the mental strength to take it that is on them.

    If you want to talk about the reason why people might be scared to go through the door I would say it is a self fulfilling prophecy when people tell you that if you go through a door you will be abused then that isn't really helping people go through the door is it?

    It exists it isn't widespread unless you keep extending the definition like the bbc poll did. The rape case I linked earlier the victim had previously been sexually assaulted by the 'victim' but it was ignored for reasons if they were said to a woman would of caused uproar. It exists but it isn't a cultural thing people who sexually harass people are not exactly at the top of society's most liked people.

    It is a fair point, labour do not hold female MPs to the same standards of men for nomination and they don't reach the top, I would suggest there could be a reason for that link, whereas nobody misses out due to sexual discrimination when you actively openly discriminate.

    It does not show that there is gender discrimination it shows that there is problems with the way labour MPs are selected I'm sure there are plenty of male deserving candidates that miss out but that could possibly be because of the clear discrimination labour enjoy.

    Also in rl I do not class my self as lib dem, labour, Tory or any other party I will vote for the party I feel is best at that time rather than being loyal to a brand.
    So you're telling me that glass ceilings and the education system's failure to encourage little girls to pursue careers that have traditionally been exclusive to men is the fault of 'mental strength' on the part of those affected?

    Extending the definition? So I presume a little bit of harassment is ok then?

    That's moronic. More women reach Labour cabinets than Tory ones. Thatcher and May don't change that. I showed you the facts so you can 'suggest a link' all you'd like but it would be based wholly on your prejudices and not on reality.

    "the clear discrimination labour enjoy" Bitter much? You say that it shows a problem with the way Labour MPs are selected and that's the very problem all-women short lists seek to correct.
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    (Original post by RayApparently)
    So you're telling me that glass ceilings and the education system's failure to encourage little girls to pursue careers that have traditionally been exclusive to men is the fault of 'mental strength' on the part of those affected?

    Extending the definition? So I presume a little bit of harassment is ok then?

    That's moronic. More women reach Labour cabinets than Tory ones. Thatcher and May don't change that. I showed you the facts so you can 'suggest a link' all you'd like but it would be based wholly on your prejudices and not on reality.

    "the clear discrimination labour enjoy" Bitter much? You say that it shows a problem with the way Labour MPs are selected and that's the very problem all-women short lists seek to correct.
    If you want to talk about education failing a group that would be white working class boys who perform worst, do you want to talk about education failing them?

    So you would prefer we become more like Mongolia where 59% of doctoral students are female and 49% of researchers than Sweden where the numbers are 48% and 37%?

    The bbc ran a poll where it ended up classing has anyone looked in your direction and made you feel uncomfortable as harassment that is what I mean by expanding the definition once again you are changing what has been said to suit your argument.

    No I say that the problem is how they are selected not the gender of who they select, If I ran a company and said to someone I'm sorry you can't apply for this job because you are a woman I would be sued to hell but you defend it the opposite way, 'the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex.' how is it justified to give preferential treatment to one group of people not the other?

    You assume that it is because women are less likely to be nominated that it must be discrimination but there are many reasons why it could be.
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    If you want to talk about education failing a group that would be white working class boys who perform worst, do you want to talk about education failing them?

    So you would prefer we become more like Mongolia where 59% of doctoral students are female and 49% of researchers than Sweden where the numbers are 48% and 37%?

    The bbc ran a poll where it ended up classing has anyone looked in your direction and made you feel uncomfortable as harassment that is what I mean by expanding the definition once again you are changing what has been said to suit your argument.

    No I say that the problem is how they are selected not the gender of who they select, If I ran a company and said to someone I'm sorry you can't apply for this job because you are a woman I would be sued to hell but you defend it the opposite way, 'the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex.' how is it justified to give preferential treatment to one group of people not the other?

    You assume that it is because women are less likely to be nominated that it must be discrimination but there are many reasons why it could be.
    And immediately you revert back to this absurd idea that caring about one group means you don't care about the others.

    Why would I prefer that?

    I don't know what poll you're talking about, I was thinking of one YouGov ran that the BBC reported on.

    I care about the results. That's why I stopped opposing all-women shortlists when it became clear that they put worthy candidates in when they may not be able to otherwise due to the fact that we don't live in a gender-blind society.

    And what reasons are those?
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    (Original post by RayApparently)
    And immediately you revert back to this absurd idea that caring about one group means you don't care about the others.

    Why would I prefer that?

    I don't know what poll you're talking about, I was thinking of one YouGov ran that the BBC reported on.

    I care about the results. That's why I stopped opposing all-women shortlists when it became clear that they put worthy candidates in when they may not be able to otherwise due to the fact that we don't live in a gender-blind society.

    And what reasons are those?
    Because you clearly care about numbers and top research jobs in Mongolia are more evenly split between than in Sweden so if you care about the numbers that would mean that Mongolia is a more equal society than here.

    I'm going to guess most of the candidates on the labour shortlists are worthy but not everyone gets a seat, maybe instead of looking at are they worthy people should look at are they the best?

    This explains the problems with one of the surveys that you gov ran.
    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/ta...stom_click=rss
    The % are still to high but when it includes have you ever thought someone was staring at you as sexual harassment then it is going to far, also it only surveyed 889 women.

    That people disagree with their stances on certain issues or they feel that someone else better represents them, I don't know about you but I would never vote for Jess phillips is that sexist? No it is because I oppose downplaying mass sexual assault (actually sexual assault not someone looked at me and I think it was sexual).

    If you think the best way to make women successful is to tell them they can't do something so sit back while you sort it out fair enough but I think we are best by stopping the lies and telling women if you put the hours in and take engineering rather than feminist dance theory then you can be successful you have a chance to make it to the top it won't be easy it isn't for most people.
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    The girls who he does notice are the ones who are quite butch in body type and appearance who are very outspoken (especially on feminist issues), blunt, competitive, domineering and who drink and sleep around like 'one of the guys'.

    Perhaps I am narrow minded but I really can't wrap my head around it. What are your thoughts?
    This is probably just a case of "Different people like different things" and "Not all men are the same"

    You describe yourself as having traditional values. For some of us, that's an immediate turn off. That's not to say that there's anything wrong with you, it's just not exactly what he's looking for in a life partner. You don't need to understand it, just move on
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    (Original post by Another)
    This is probably just a case of "Different people like different things" and "Not all men are the same"

    You describe yourself as having traditional values. For some of us, that's an immediate turn off. That's not to say that there's anything wrong with you, it's just not exactly what he's looking for in a life partner. You don't need to understand it, just move on
    Another like feminine men who like to play dress up. Different strokes for different folks.
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    (Original post by trustmeimlying1)
    Another like feminine men who like to play dress up. Different strokes for different folks.
    Goodness, are you psychic?!?

    But yeah, I prefer men that are kind and generous rather than popular and intelligent. I suppose society classes such people as "feminine" these days!
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    I'd imagine there's a correlation with male feminists and effeminacy/cucks
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    This is what happens when you emasculate an entire generation :rolleyes: Thanks feminism

    Find yourself a more masculine, self-assured chap OP, this guy needs a lot of work! :teeth:
 
 
 
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